Spellcaster Survivability

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:22 pm

Okay, I'm moving along in my game, just reached the Goblin Warrens in Act I. And I'm beginning to run into a problem which I'd like to hear some advice on, namely that my two mages seem to be dropping like flies. I have a Drow Wizard and a Human Sorceror, both with 16 Con, and it seems to me that they are dieing remarkebly easily. I have two dedicated tanks, as well as a shape-shifted druid and a Sviffy Cleric, and they're generally fine. I suspect my purchase of the best armor available is some help there.

Here then is the essence of my question. How do I get Arvien and Iaris to live longer?

I have Mirror Image, and I do use it, but while it helps against a stray goblin, it doesn't seem to do much when several orcs charge them.

Both have between 15-20 AC, I use Phaens Robe for one of them, and a Bracers of Armor for the other, but are there any good mage protection items I can get my hands on? Some spellcaster robes perhaps, or maybe some hefty plus bracers.

Is there a spell either my Druid or Cleric can cast to increase their survivability? I have Barkskin, but I don't think that +3 AC is going to help much.

Alternativly, is there some way I can get my Tanks to actually tank? In most battles, I'm facing 7+ monsters, sometimes as many as 12. My tanks catch about half, and the cleric and druid each can grab one or two, but often I'll have two-three orcs chasing my mage all over the damn place. Most MMOs have some sort of Aggro control feature to get the tank to actually tank. I doubt ID2 has that, but is there anything that serves a similar purpose?

Answers to any or all of the questions would be heartily appreciated.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:18 pm

Mirror image is a great spell, if you run out of images then just recast. 3 mirror image spells can absorb up to 24 attacks, enough time to take out the enemies.

Most enemies target the first party member they see, so make sure it isn't your mage.
If one of your mages is attacked in melee you can send another character or summon closer to the enemy, the monster might be scripted to attack the nearest party member.
You can also cast invisibility instead of fleeing.

Every point of AC helps.
Cast shield, mage armor, barkskin, cat's grace, protection from evil, blur and other spells, later you can cast even better spells like stoneskin or improved invisibility.

If you increase your AC by 8 for example, a monster who hits at every second attempt normally will only succeed at one of ten attempts, so the enemies will need about 80 attacks in order to remove 8 mirror images, the battle should be over then.

Casting offensive buffing spells before combat also helps, dead orcs don't attack very often.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:27 pm

If you have the spell, try casting just the normal invisibility spell on your mages before the battle, then the goblins will go for your tanks rather than them. once the goblins are ignoring your mages, just cast away with them. Another good tactic with mages is to cast summonning spells in between them and the goblins/enemy to intercept any attacks. If the goblins start attacking the mages, just make them run past the summons and quite often the goblins will be forced to engage the summoned monsters instead.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:04 pm

eh what the hell? boost up mages? kidding me?
buff up tanks

use mages pure for offense
the first monster that tries to go to my mages has to meet some magic missisles some chromatic orbs for stun effect
my mages rarely die
it's the tanks that i need to keep alive

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:16 am

You could also try making it difficult for enemies to reach your mages by using spells like Entangle, Web, Grease, Spike Growth/Stones, crowd control spells like Sleep, Hold Person, Charm Person and offensive spells with stunning/paralysing side efects such as Chromatic Orb, Ice Lance etc.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:13 am

also possible, but i found trapping spells rather annoying..
cause my own characters can be trapped too..i know potions of freedom but that's just bollocks.
in most cases i use Horror/chaos to get some morale failures

then i go with a firebal slice the the that weren't effected
works very good on those hook horror's
especially in crowded places I really wouldn't recommend web/etanlge etc etc
since the monster in it will get trapped and still will be crowded so a fireball wouldn't work without hurting your own characters rather have some speed so u can pick the weakest monster or strongest one to make the battle more durable in not crowded places i would suggest the entangling spells since they won't move that far away

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:12 am

Woooosh, lot's of advice. I'll try all of it and see what works best.

I've used spells like entangle and grease at first, but the problem was that my own tanks promptly got stuck, and at this stage, (levels 3-4), they do about 90% of my damage.

I'll try the other advice. Gobbo Warrens, Here I come!

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:13 am

that's why use horror/chaos

I don't like it when my own characters are trapped esp the mages that's just bollocks

for any further advice you can just contact me

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:24 am

So far I turned on Gaurdian Scripts for most of my other characters, combined with Barkskin, Shield, and plentiful MIs, that seems to have solved the problem. Except for one poor sorceror who seems to keep getting killed for no apparent reason.

First Situation: I've just finished kill that Orcish Shaman Tugnuck, and am no ready to get down to some serious looting. All of a sudden, I see a mesage saying: Call lightning has dissipated. I think, okay, and start checking for loot in the camp. Then a lightning bolt comes down and kills my mage in one hit...

Second Situation: I finish killing the Barghests in the warrens, and get ready to kill of the Dekanter Goblins. I wander up and decide to rest/replenish spells before the fight. Out of a side tunnel charges a troll, hits my mage (same Sorceror) over the head once, getting a critical and killing him, and then drops dead upon being hit with about 3 axes...

He is not a lucky guy.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:57 am

Learning to use trapping spells effectively takes time but once you've mastered the skill you can set up "kill-zones" that immbolize/damage enemies ... I guess I'm used to it as I rarely play parties with dedicated tanks.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:37 pm

it's really not about the entangling, that's easy
making a deadly killzone is too
and using tank as decoy is easy too

the best thing is Formations if you notice your sorceror is getting killed quick try so make a circle with mage in middle or sorc so they target the outside circlce first
it's real easy
just be sure to have chromatic orb and magic missiles they are a whole bunch of magic

Crucis · Post by **Crucis** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:41 pm

Those are all great points, da_venom.

Kill zones are a great tactic later in the game when you have a variety of movement disabling spells and area effect spells.

My favorite kill zone tactic is to use a combination of Grease, Web, Entangle, and Spike Growth to slow the enemy, maybe a stunning/hold spell like Hold or Symbol of Hopelessness, etc., and some multi-round gas spells to cause damage over many rounds, like Cloudkill, Acid Fog, and Firey Cloud. And if you really want to get nasty, use a summoned monster that is immune to your cloud spell, like undead with Cloudkill or Fire elementals with Firey cloud. Your enemies will be drawn into attacking the summons while stuck in the middle of the kill zone.

And when you're in HOF, this tactic can get exceptionally dangerous, since you will have so many options available to you.

You also make a great point about protecting your mages. This is why I don't particularly like cone type spells. I don't like exposing my mages in such a way that might draw the enemy's attention. I leave my mage well behind the lines. And when I'm in an area where attacks from behind are likely, I'll even move my mage into the middle of the 2 by 2 marching order, so that I have a rearguard.

promethius9594 · Post by **promethius9594** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:15 pm

[QUOTE=NeoTiamat]
First Situation: I've just finished kill that Orcish Shaman Tugnuck, and am no ready to get down to some serious looting. All of a sudden, I see a mesage saying: Call lightning has dissipated. I think, okay, and start checking for loot in the camp. Then a lightning bolt comes down and kills my mage in one hit...

Second Situation: I finish killing the Barghests in the warrens, and get ready to kill of the Dekanter Goblins. I wander up and decide to rest/replenish spells before the fight. Out of a side tunnel charges a troll, hits my mage (same Sorceror) over the head once, getting a critical and killing him, and then drops dead upon being hit with about 3 axes...
[/QUOTE]

To the first situation, thats because tugnuck casts a defensive spell that takes awhile to go away. Every so often, BOOM, massive lightening bolt strikes one of your party. Took me awhile to figure this out, and the effect goes away after awhile. If you didnt get the loot, go back now and it should be safe to try and get it.

Also, another reason your characters are dying easily is b/c you have a party of six. Generally when running through this game i stuck with four: a paladin (bc of a certain weapon i wanted), a rogue/ranger, a cleric (who could also fight) and one sorc. you level up alot faster that way, AND your sorc very quickly becomes powerful enough that you dont ever need a second spell caster. With 6 people it takes you alot longer to level up, which makes each character alot weaker. Not worth the trade off, IMO.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:49 pm

that only matter for the beginning of the game
later on getting end mid game or end game the party of 6 is way stronger

it's only use ir for level squatting or the like

furthermore, if you have troubles of your mages dying
then look at the battle, how does it go. If you seen many low level unit's and 2-3 strong level unit's I would suggest trhow are fireball or 2 so you can kill as many weak unit's as possible so you have more room to walk and mostly the stronger ones wil target the tank so in that case your mages should be pretty save

if you encounter an area with much strong opponent your better of casting horror/chaos to scare so off, then chop the ones that weren't effected.

anyway my point is to keep mages longer alive, keep as less units in the battle working. I mean huge force of unit's is a total harassement since they point out to all my characters instead of the tanks alone this is what i found very annoying so i would rather keep the enemy's at a minimum with whatever spells nessecary
(i'm not very fond of entangeling spells)

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:20 am

.

that's another reason why I suggest to add 2 Pal levels early to a sorc and start a Wiz with a rogue level and later add 2 more and at least 2 figther levels!

This way you can boost the survival rate of your arcane caster in the early game!

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:07 pm

I agree with SD about adding the levels of Paladin to a Sorcerer, and the Rogue (and maybe Fighter) to a Mage, but...

... with the Sorcerer I wouldn't do it until I had Fireball. This spell makes such a difference and you want it ASAP.

... with the Mage it doesn't matter so much b/c they suck and should be your backup caster anyway.

Keep those spellchuckers in the back where they belong! If one is attacked, it's YOUR fault. You let him get too close to the action.

webhead · Post by **webhead** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:09 am

oh, never had problems with spellcasters, just give them a xbow and have a rogue guard them (until the rogue (pureclass) gets powerfull enough to kick ass on the front lines

)

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Mon May 01, 2006 7:33 am

lol a bow to a mage?
give them darts or a sling
man a bow is for a thief/archer

webhead · Post by **webhead** » Mon May 01, 2006 8:38 am

crossbow = xbow

everyone has proficiency in them, i think

Crucis · Post by **Crucis** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:27 am

Venom, Darts may have been a pretty normal mage weapon in 2E. But in IWD2, darts are much better when used by strong tanks, cuz they have very short range and add STR bonus to damage.

Mages are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better off using Crossbows, due to the excellent to hit bonuses.

Slings and Darts as mage weapons is soooooooo 2e.