Stat bonuses and negatives through the entire trilogy(SPOILERS).

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:23 pm

I'm trying to plan out a character to play through the whole trilogy.

I'd like some help figuring out how stats change through the game. Help me with this list, please.

BGI:

STR +1
DEX +1
CON +1
INT +1
WIS +3
CHA +1
(all of these are from Tomes)

BGII:

DEX, CON, INT or WIS -1 (test in the dream at Spellhold)
DEX -1 (If Good, in Hell)
WIS & CHA +1 (if Good, in Hell)
(I know there are evil choices, but I can't remember them)

ToB:

All stats: +1 (Machine of Lum the Mad)

I'm not sure if this list is complete or correct. Please add/comment.

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:24 am

Evil in Hell

Tears of Bhall (Hells Trials):

Evil (Fear): +2 CON
Evil (Wrath): +2 STR

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:57 am

shadowkeeper

could you undo alignment change ? - it seems rough that after being goody-goody and having a 20 rep, one bad choice can turn you to 'evil'

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:03 pm

i may be dumb but your saying stat's does that include
magical resistances and such?

or just the attributes?

IIRC from the tears you can also gain some magical resistance

and problaly some more that i can't remember atm but i will update it if u want it

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:58 pm

I meant attributes.

I also just read that you can get a permanent +1 to your main attribute (whatever that means) if you're lucky with the Deck of Many Things.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:27 pm

main attribute would mean
the class type
fighter would get strenght
mage intelligence
cleric wisdom
etc
at least that is my gues

don't you get any bonusses from tosc?

seppuku · Post by **seppuku** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:23 am

+1 wisdom is the only one to come to mind, from tome in the tower, but that has already been accounted for in the first post i believe since i can only think of two tomes of wisdom in BG1 withot the expansion

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:24 pm

[QUOTE=seppuku]+1 wisdom is the only one to come to mind, from tome in the tower, but that has already been accounted for in the first post i believe since i can only think of two tomes of wisdom in BG1 withot the expansion[/QUOTE]
You're correct. Thank you for the clarification.

seppuku · Post by **seppuku** » Thu May 11, 2006 10:22 am

Anytime. Good to know my memory is holding up. Did you get a pm from me [Cwell]? Im not really used to forums so im far from sure whether or not it sent. If so, was it any use to you or already common knowledge?

edit: retyped so it makes slightly more sense

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:49 pm

I got it, but it ventures way too far into the realms of cheese for me to use it.

Question:

With those Evil "Bonuses" what are the converse Good Bonuses? I think a kewl addition to this thread would be listing the choices in Hell. I would love it if somebody could do that please!

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Fri May 12, 2006 8:39 am

Ask-eth, and Thou Shall Receive

Thou helpith in thy planning of thy developmenth. (*** Spoiler Alert !!! ***)

Pride
Good: +20% Fire, Cold, and Electric Resistance
Evil: 200k XP

Fear
Good: Gain immunity to normal & +1 weapons
Evil: +2 CON, Cloak of Bravery (Immune to Fear)

Selfishness
Good: +10% Magic Resistance, -2 HP, -1 DEX, some XP
Evil: +2 AC, Permanent Death of randomly selected NPC

Greed
Good: +2 bonus to all Saving Throws
Evil: +15 HP, Blackrazor (the legendary longsword from White Plume Mountain?)

Wrath
Good: +1 WIS, +1 CHA
Evil: +2 STR

And any evil choice changes you to Evil (I think). All the above obtained from a couple of VERY good walkthroughs. Someone correct any of this, if I'm off with any of that. Thou be cool.

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:56 am

[QUOTE=CFM]Thou helpith in thy planning of thy developmenth. (*** Spoiler Alert !!! ***)

Pride
Good: +20% Fire, Cold, and Electric Resistance
Evil: 200k XP

Fear
Good: Gain immunity to normal & +1 weapons
Evil: +2 CON, Cloak of Bravery (Immune to Fear)

Selfishness
Good: +10% Magic Resistance, -2 HP, -1 DEX, some XP
Evil: +2 AC, Permanent Death of randomly selected NPC

Greed
Good: +2 bonus to all Saving Throws
Evil: +15 HP, Blackrazor (the legendary longsword from White Plume Mountain?)

Wrath
Good: +1 WIS, +1 CHA
Evil: +2 STR

And any evil choice changes you to Evil (I think). All the above obtained from a couple of VERY good walkthroughs. Someone correct any of this, if I'm off with any of that. Thou be cool.[/QUOTE]
Wow, the Evil Selfishness result is nasty! You can't even resurrect the guy!??!?!

Lord Tansheron · Post by **Lord Tansheron** » Sun May 14, 2006 2:45 pm

No you cannot. Permanent irreversible death. For. ever.

Btw, is it just me or do the Good bonuses seem so much better than the Evil ones?

seppuku · Post by **seppuku** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:25 pm

Probably not just you, but i disagree. +2 ac is always useful and +2 strength (this acts on top of the various belts of strength) is a very good thing. Nothing difficult to kill uses less than +2 weapons and ive never noticed any advantage to +2 saving throws.

Thats why the choice is there, and why my characters invariably end up evil aligned.

Small addition to the hell bonus/trials.. when it comes to a member of your party being killed, if youre playing by yourself the demon summons and kills some random peasent/commoner type person. No great loss.
Ive heard that you can resurrect a party member killed in this fashion, but since ive never got that far with a party i cant confirm that.

Thanks for the list tho, stops the trial and error approach i was going to take next time. Cheers

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:37 am

off topic happenings in hell

It's been a long time since I've been there/done that, but I think that you can raise/resurrect the party member that is killed. I also think that evil provides some better choices for a fighter. Too bad that one evil choice makes the character evil. As long as the topic is drifting, does anyone KNOW what happens to the Tashia romance if an evil choice is made?

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:00 pm

Not sure. But I've heard that if you import the Helm of Opposite Alignment, you can wear it, choose some evil choices, and then remove the helm later, and go back to being Good.

Lord Tansheron · Post by **Lord Tansheron** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:14 pm

Let's just analyze it a bit deeper:

Pride
Good: +20% Fire, Cold, and Electric Resistance
Evil: 200k XP

Alright so this is a no-brainer. +20 Elemental Resistances vs. some XP? Please, XP can be obtained anywhere, but those bonus resistances are SICK!

Fear
Good: Gain immunity to normal & +1 weapons
Evil: +2 CON, Cloak of Bravery (Immune to Fear)

Here the Evil choice is actually better. Later on, there's not many normal or +1 weapons anway and if there are, the enemies are probably not a problem to dismantle. +2 CON is a very sweet bonus though! The Cloak is just an addition.

Selfishness
Good: +10% Magic Resistance, -2 HP, -1 DEX, some XP
Evil: +2 AC, Permanent Death of randomly selected NPC

A tough choice, probably depending on your class. Magic Resistance is one of the best things you can have, since it protects you against the most powerful attacks in the game. HP and DEX are neglectable most of the time. Armor Class bonus can be good too though, guess it all comes down to which class you play.

Greed
Good: +2 bonus to all Saving Throws
Evil: +15 HP, Blackrazor (the legendary longsword from White Plume Mountain?)

Excuse me? The sword is mediocre, hitpoints are good but HELLO? +2 bonus to all Saves? Geez, how unfair.

Wrath
Good: +1 WIS, +1 CHA
Evil: +2 STR

This one at least is completely class-dependant. Usually Good is better though, since 25 is the maximum Strength you can have and several items grant you that anyway.

-> Good choices are better. A bit class-dependant, but overall they're better. The optimal way would, of course, be a mix, but I don't even want to think about what kind of allignment troubles this can cause...

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:07 am

@Tansheron
"Good choices are better." No, not always.
"The optimal way would, of course, be a mix, but I don't even want to think about what kind of allignment troubles this can cause..." Now, I agree that the optimal way is a mix for most characters in terms of power alone. The answer to your alignment is simply (in the unmodded game) that if you make a single evil choice then you become evil.

Fear
Good: Gain immunity to normal & +1 weapons
Evil: +2 CON, Cloak of Bravery (Immune to Fear)

I tend to agree. Definitely, the bonus Con is the best choice for boss fights, and that cloak is nice to have in a party too. The good choice is not bad though. I think that there are some hordes of mooks that this immunity could basically neutralize. I don't know how many monsters that this immunity will neutralize in ToB.

Selfishness
Good: +10% Magic Resistance, -2 HP, -1 DEX, some XP
Evil: +2 AC, Permanent Death of randomly selected NPC

Often choosing good can result in a loss of 3 AC compared to the evil choice, that may be important for some classes like Kensai. On the other hand MR is good, and every little bit helps.

Greed
Good: +2 bonus to all Saving Throws
Evil: +15 HP, Blackrazor (the legendary longsword from White Plume Mountain?)

"Excuse me? The sword is mediocre, hitpoints are good but HELLO? +2 bonus to all Saves? Geez, how unfair." Here I flat out disagree. If your saves aren't splendid by this time, then you are doing something wrong. The additional HP on the otherhand can make a difference. Blackrazor would be Excellent, IF it did not lower the attack rate when the guy has Improved Haste or Whirlwind. Too bad.... Still, in some cases, the immunities are nice and free regen while you sleep.

Wrath
Good: +1 WIS, +1 CHA
Evil: +2 STR

"since 25 is the maximum Strength you can have and several items grant you that anyway" There is only one item in the unmodded game that grants a strength of 25. This bonus to strength will add to the strength provided by equipment (if I remember correctly) up to the limit of 25. For fighters, it is clearly the better choice unless you will be wielding Crom anyway.

All the benefits are icing on the cake. None are required. If you want to be good (or a paladin and need to be good), then just make all the good choices. If you are powergaming, then I think you will probably be evil (unmodded game), unless you are a paladin.

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:59 pm

The Evil Fear choice only helps if you're part Warrior most of the time. I say most of the time because you get no bonuses from a Con past 16 unless you are a warrior, and most mages/clerics/thieves have that 16 con from the start.

Nimiety · Post by **Nimiety** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:38 pm

All characters, regardless of class, will benefit of the innate regeneration rate offered by having a con of 20 or higher.

Start a guy off with a con of 18, add your two, congrats - free healing.

N...