Thiefless party (probably spoilers)

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:25 am

Hello

Just wondered what people's thoughts were on this issue.

I am currently doing a Good party of four (me - sorceror, Aerie, Mazzy, Valygar). No room for a thief. Pretty effective so far, though getting burned by setting off traps. Poor old Valygar got fatally fried twice by traps in the planar sphere.

I am trying to play "no-reloads, no cheese"; money is not unlimited so I don't want to continually rely on the Rod of Resurrection (though found that, if you can wait, it's pretty cheap at a temple and they still get experience when dead).

Find Traps can help, of course, though I can't see any way to remove traps without a thief.

Any suggestions for tactics etc?

EDIT: oh yeah, also meant to ask: does NPCs dying/getting turned to stone mess up their storylines or interactions? I know that it does for romances, but wondered for other banter (Mazzy and Valygar have some interesting stuff going on).

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:32 am

knock knock

I hear you knocking
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
just got to knock on wood

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:03 am

Thanks for that blast from the past. Knock doesn't deal with traps.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:26 am

Are you sure?

perhaps you have to 'detect traps' first THEN knock once you know they are there. I'm sure that I have disarmed a trap with knock at some point.

clerics and rangers can detect traps.

the pnp "knock" used to remove 2 restrictions e.g. 2 locks or a trap and a lock.

some traps do not appear to be activated until the darn thing is unlocked - bit sneaky that IMO.

forgot
knock knock who's there?

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:28 am

Reply

Use a cleric find traps, monk abilities to find traps or one of the familiars to do so etc

After which you find the trap - you get screwed over by it :laugh:

Its impractical to think you can beat the game without a thief - if you have Ease of Use mod on which can remove traps then its alright

But for a normal game your not going to make it - what ever happened to Yoshimo by the way - you have him until Imoen comes back so in the game you atleast have one theif available to you at all times

I strongly recommend having a theif, if worst comes to worst Jan is around

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:31 am

Reply

On the 'knock knock' theory - yes that could work buy you would need your sorcerer to memorize knock and a divine spellcaster memorize find traps in all the slots available given the amount of traps there are in every Athkatla district or area and then rest every day or so if you want to get the most out of the game with items or equipment that are protected by a trap/lock.

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:34 am

Booted Yoshimo: not Good! (RP reasons for this party config, plus never having used Valygar and Mazzy)

95% sure knock doesn't remove traps. Just knocked a chest then got turned to stone by the trap. Unusual for a game mechanic to have only one way around it though.

I'm pretty sure the game is beatable without a thief. Suddenly all those crappy protection spells you never use (e.g. petrification) might come in handy!

Just had a thought: can summonses open chests?

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am

Reply

no

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:47 pm

Knock definitely has nothing to do with traps.

You're going to either have to add a Good Thief (Nalia, Imoen) or just be very, very careful. If people can solo the game without a Thief, you'll be able to do it without one as well, although I think the game is a whole lot easier if you have one.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:49 pm

"Solo" and play are two different things. Playing the game involves exploring and so on, soloing means finishing the game by the most expedient means. You can certainly easily finish (solo) the game without theif abilities, you just miss out on a whole heap of stuff by only facing traps you can't avoid otherwise. Check the solo guides for non-theif characters for specifics. - Curdis !

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Thu May 11, 2006 7:51 pm

[QUOTE=Curdis]"Solo" and play are two different things. Playing the game involves exploring and so on, soloing means finishing the game by the most expedient means. [/QUOTE]
Umm, no.

Solo means playing the game without any other NPCs. You're still playing the game.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:59 pm

It is doable but you may find a door in TOB that won't open for anyone less than a true thief.

The majority of the traps out there fall into I think four catergories.

Physical: Spikes, arrows or just general physical objects hitting the character, most of these are countered by Stoneskin or Mirror Image.

Magical Damage: Damaging spells like Petrify, Magic Missile or other such spells.
This is where scrolls of spell Deflection or Absorbtion come in. Have a manual near by and prepare to cast the most relevant Spell Immunity or even better have a Spell Trap and absorb the spell.

Magical Enchantment: Controlling and Disabling spells, most wear off in few seonds anyway.

Summoning: This is where traps summon monsters, the majority of these only work once and the monsters aren't that hard to kill. One ususually gets experience for killing the monsters anyway.

WTF: There's this nasty green blob spell that doesn't seem to be stopped by any type of spell immunity, Spell Trap or Stoneskin, the only spell that is partially effective is Mirror Image.

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:48 pm

After detecting the trap, as Deadalready said, there are several types of trap, just use your Tank to run through the physical ones, and one of your mages to get through the magical ones, i've clocked the game without a theif before.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:56 pm

[QUOTE=RBitG]After detecting the trap, as Deadalready said, there are several types of trap, just use your Tank to run through the physical ones, and one of your mages to get through the magical ones, i've clocked the game without a theif before.[/QUOTE]

Or just use summons to trigger the traps which are on the ground, that way you only have to worry about the chest and door traps (most of which, if not all are magical traps so just use a mage with spell protection spells cast on him/her etc., like the others have said)

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:35 am

[QUOTE=mr_sir]Or just use summons to trigger the traps which are on the ground, that way you only have to worry about the chest and door traps (most of which, if not all are magical traps so just use a mage with spell protection spells cast on him/her etc., like the others have said)[/QUOTE]

Ah! I can't belive i missed that! Summoning is definately the best way to trigger traps, thanks mr_sir!

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:58 am

some traps don't get disarmed by summonsed creatures setting them off - they just keep firing.

in Watcher's keep there are traps like that which keep firing.

also, only characters can open items/doors etc - if you have a high MR character /or lots of HP you can risk setting off traps, but it isn't elegant.

I dualled a previous PC just so that she had thief skills, but Yoshimo is the handiest - I'd got him to lvl 18 by the time he left the party having had him in WK. it was easy to forget the damage that his traps could do - but having him set a line of traps down a narrow corridor was a good way to lose a few mind-flayers.

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:43 am

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

I've yet to find a (non-chest/door) trap that summonses trigger. In Planar Sphere, I had a bunch of skeletons going first down a corridor and still Valygar got fried (insta-death, don't know what type of magic) when he set foot in it.

Will try a few of these and see how I get on.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:49 pm

[QUOTE=Cwell the fine]Umm, no.

Solo means playing the game without any other NPCs. You're still playing the game.[/QUOTE]Your astonishing ability to completely miss the entire meaning of the post and yet argue a point of semantics is breathtaking. - Curdis !

TonyMontana1638 · Post by **TonyMontana1638** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:35 pm

[QUOTE=Curdis]"Solo" and play are two different things. Playing the game involves exploring and so on, soloing means finishing the game by the most expedient means. You can certainly easily finish (solo) the game without theif abilities, you just miss out on a whole heap of stuff by only facing traps you can't avoid otherwise. Check the solo guides for non-theif characters for specifics. - Curdis ![/QUOTE]
Well not necessarily, my friend "soloed" the game and did every little damn side-quest he could lay his hands on: I'd hardly call that 'expedient'. There were only a few things he couldn't manage like Watcher's Keep, Kangaxx and I think the Twisted Rune.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:27 pm

A thiefless party can be tough...so I would reccomend a mage with a lot of Detect traps and Knock spells at the ready.