Griffith Park werewolf (possible spoiler)

Nico2000 · Post by **Nico2000** » Sun May 28, 2006 9:02 pm

Well I made it to Giffith Park and am now running for my life from the werewolf... (actually, running for my 12th life, or so by now)... I once managed to avoid the wolf for the four minutes, but I want those points, so I'm trying to kill it... Without much success I'm afraid.

Finally consulted the walkthrough and it says: 'smash it in the observatory stone doors'. What does that mean...? What doors and how dou you smash it..?

Anybody?
Thanx

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:36 am

Inside the building you can locate the main observatory room, which has huge doors that can be opened from the inside by pressing a button (you need to turn on the power outside first though). Open these doors, lead the werewolf to them and when he starts going through them press the switch to shut the doors and he is crushed.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Mon May 29, 2006 7:47 am

Mr Sir forgot one step (especially for the clans without celerity): go into god mode. At least if you want to avoid having to make a dozen tries (on average).
I'm not a cheater & console user by nature, but something about this quest makes it seem justified... It's only place in the game where I cheat.

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:03 pm

[QUOTE=Lestat]Mr Sir forgot one step (especially for the clans without celerity): go into god mode. At least if you want to avoid having to make a dozen tries (on average).
I'm not a cheater & console user by nature, but something about this quest makes it seem justified... It's only place in the game where I cheat.[/QUOTE]
I cheat here and only here as well (well, and to get past bugs, but that's a given). I figure if the designers can cheat by using unkillable God-Monsters, then I can cheat them back by becoming invincible.
I played Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and I fought the Boss Monster for weeks before I figured out how to kill it. I could kill it, though, so I didn't cheat. I played Jedi Outcast, and figured out how to take down an ATAD with only a light-sabre, simply because everybody was saying it couldn't be done. IMHO, unkillable God-Monsters are cheating on the part of the game designers. There is no excuse for it. Make it as hard to kill as you want, but at least give the PC a minimal chance. There was no reason for the Werewolf to be invincible.

Acleacius · Post by **Acleacius** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:49 am

Hey it might be more fun to just add Celerity.

Anyway to answer your question, run asap forward and right into the closest door, turn left and go till you see a door on your left, go through and use the switch on the wall of the small shed.

Back in the same door you came out of, take your first right, then first left, should put you in the Observatory.
Up the steps and use the switch on the top level stand by the switch and wait for the WereWolf to come in through the metal doors (it is possible you have to go outside by the switch to lure the WW to the metal doors, as he starts to come in use the switch.

cyberpaddy66 · Post by **cyberpaddy66** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:57 am

The 1st time I did this bit it took me 3 lives (no cheating) to figure out where the switches were and what direction the WW comes from.

Ever since then I usually do it 1st or 2nd attempt (still no cheating) and not all my charectors can have celerity

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:29 am

[QUOTE=cyberpaddy66]The 1st time I did this bit it took me 3 lives (no cheating) to figure out where the switches were and what direction the WW comes from.

Ever since then I usually do it 1st or 2nd attempt (still no cheating) and not all my charectors can have celerity

[/QUOTE]
Fantastic. Good job. Some of us are 48 with slightly arthritic hands, though, and can't twitch that fast. Heck, I can't even type 130 WPM anymore.

You know what they say about age and treachery...

cyberpaddy66 · Post by **cyberpaddy66** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:39 am

[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]Fantastic. Good job. Some of us are 48 with slightly arthritic hands, though, and can't twitch that fast. Heck, I can't even type 130 WPM anymore.

You know what they say about age and treachery...[/QUOTE]

I may not be arthritic but I am 40 this month

I guess because I play a lot of first person shooters my reactions are slightly quicker than most but I think it's the beer that helps me most :laugh:

Anaximander · Post by **Anaximander** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:11 am

I have no issue with the werewolf encounter. Sure, it's kind of bogus that no weapon or discipline in the game can touch it, but it can be killed. You just have to use your surroundings to lure it into a trap. This is by no means the first game to implement such an encounter. In Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver all the bosses were completely impervious to all of your standard attacks. Each encounter wasn't just a fight, it was also a puzzle. You had to figure out how to weaken or destroy your opponent using something in the environment. I view the Griffith Park werewolf the same way.

Now, if there was absolutely no way to destroy the beast I would deffinately take issue with it. As it is, I kill the thing every time with no difficulty. It has to stop moving for it's attack animation, so you really just have to keep moving and avoid getting stuck. Faster movement does make this easier, so character with Celerity have a distinct advantage here. The scary part is when you have to crawl through that little hole in the chain link fence. Crouching to get through it really slows you down, and it's easy to get stuck there.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:24 pm

[QUOTE=Anaximander]I have no issue with the werewolf encounter. Sure, it's kind of bogus that no weapon or discipline in the game can touch it, but it can be killed. You just have to use your surroundings to lure it into a trap. This is by no means the first game to implement such an encounter. In Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver all the bosses were completely impervious to all of your standard attacks. Each encounter wasn't just a fight, it was also a puzzle. You had to figure out how to weaken or destroy your opponent using something in the environment. I view the Griffith Park werewolf the same way.

Now, if there was absolutely no way to destroy the beast I would deffinately take issue with it. As it is, I kill the thing every time with no difficulty. It has to stop moving for it's attack animation, so you really just have to keep moving and avoid getting stuck. Faster movement does make this easier, so character with Celerity have a distinct advantage here. The scary part is when you have to crawl through that little hole in the chain link fence. Crouching to get through it really slows you down, and it's easy to get stuck there.[/QUOTE]I would have no issue with it, if the way to kill it was discoverable in a fairly normal way.

But seriously how do you discover that you can kill the werewolf by:
A. flipping a switch attached to an outhouse
B. opening a pair of heavy doors that wolfie is stupid enough to enter through instead of going through the interior (as he does when you don't open the heavy doors).

Solutions:
- you read the walkthrough
- you tried a few dozen times to do something and still screwed up.

If a solution requires reading a walkthrough or a dozen deaths it's faulty game design in my book.

Anaximander · Post by **Anaximander** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:32 pm

[QUOTE=Lestat]But seriously how do you discover that you can kill the werewolf by:
A. flipping a switch attached to an outhouse
B. opening a pair of heavy doors that wolfie is stupid enough to enter through instead of going through the interior (as he does when you don't open the heavy doors).

Solutions:
- you read the walkthrough
- you tried a few dozen times to do something and still screwed up.
.[/QUOTE]

- you've seen something similar before

Maybe my past experience with other games makes me a rare exception. As I said, I have played games with bosses like this before. The most notable was Soul Reaver, in which I literally spent hours trying to figure out how to beat the second boss. When I came up against the werewolf in Bloodlines for the very first time, I tried to fight it at first. This, of course, is impossible. Then I tried simply surviving until time was up. Using that approach, I kept getting killed. That's when I thought "There's got to be a way to kill it!"

It took me some time and many deaths, but eventually I figured it out. I believe at one point I even tried luring it into the forest fire. At any rate, the solution to killing the werewolf is actually fundamentally similar to boss number 4 (Dumah) in Soul Reaver. Set a trap, lure him into it.

Acleacius · Post by **Acleacius** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:04 am

I think they mean it is beyond unreasonable and there for annoying and poorly designed.
It is poorly designed because not being able to effect it, is NOT realistic game play in any sence, even if you have played other games that do this.

Unrealistic puzzles are not fun either because they break you out of your Role, and if you want to be challenged by falsly implemted twitch puzzles, you don't play RPGs.

It means that the designers have given up on realistic gameplay design, so it stands out in this game which for the most part is very well designed under all the terrible circumstances, with this exception and the constantly respawning zombies, uggh!

Anaximander · Post by **Anaximander** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:09 am

I can see your point, I just happen to disagree. I'm perfectly happy as long there is actually a way to win.

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:37 am

[QUOTE=Anaximander]I can see your point, I just happen to disagree. I'm perfectly happy as long there is actually a way to win.[/QUOTE]
A charmingly idealistic point of view, but would you be equally happy if the condition of your victory was that you had to surrender your powers and become mortal again? It would still be technically possible to win, what with all the firepower you have by that time. It would still stink like a cheat to me. I'm not disputing your POV, I'm just offering an alternative way to think about it.

Anaximander · Post by **Anaximander** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:13 pm

[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]A charmingly idealistic point of view, but would you be equally happy if the condition of your victory was that you had to surrender your powers and become mortal again?.[/QUOTE]

That might be fitting for a final boss encounter. There's a rather obscure old RPG called Soulbringer in which the only way to achieve true victory against the final boss was to sacrifice your life. I didn't have a problem with that either.

This werewolf, however, is not the end of the game. If I had to make some tremendous sacrifice to kill it, at that particular point in the story, then no I probably wouldn't be quite so content.

Now, let me ask you something. Suppose the werewolf could only move half as quickly as player characters, making it incredibly easy to avoid it's attacks. You'd have all the time in the world to look around and figure out what you need to do. Would you still be upset that it is invulnerable to all attacks?

Remember, your character is as "invincible" as this werewolf is. More so. If you die, you reload and try again. All you've lost is time.

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:46 am

[QUOTE=Anaximander]That might be fitting for a final boss encounter. There's a rather obscure old RPG called Soulbringer in which the only way to achieve true victory against the final boss was to sacrifice your life. I didn't have a problem with that either.

This werewolf, however, is not the end of the game. If I had to make some tremendous sacrifice to kill it, at that particular point in the story, then no I probably wouldn't be quite so content.

Now, let me ask you something. Suppose the werewolf could only move half as quickly as player characters, making it incredibly easy to avoid it's attacks. You'd have all the time in the world to look around and figure out what you need to do. Would you still be upset that it is invulnerable to all attacks?

Remember, your character is as "invincible" as this werewolf is. More so. If you die, you reload and try again. All you've lost is time.[/QUOTE]
I'd still be upset. I did learn how to cut down an ATAD in JKIII after all, and they are not ballet dancers. They just stomp the earth at the rate of one footstep per second. The problem is the invulnerability, not whether or not I can elude it. Even at speed, you can elude the Werewolf - they are not faster than the PC. The problem is that you can't fight them. Technically, they are a sentient freight-train intent on killing you for no obvious reason.

Yes, I understand that with the save game option, technically I'm immortal. My point is that I shouldn't have to depend on that immortality to be able to finish the game. The game is constructed precisely so that you have to depend on that immortality to finish. Doesn't that destroy the entire experience for you? That the game explicitly says, pretty much to your face, "Hi, player! To finish this part of the game you will have to be killed over and over again, and restore from a saved game until you figure out how to get out alive. Thus, you are not a vampire, you are a human playing a video game in which you play the part of a vampire. Sorry to break the news so harshly."

They are RPGs, right? The whole idea is to immerse yourself in the role, and not have the game bitch-slap you with the fact that it's just a game, right?

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:27 am

I'm stuck at the same point. In my opinion it's just as yrthwyndandfyre says. Having to reload a lot in order to make progress is simply bad game design and I won't do it. Therefore I want to try out the god mode (and usually I'm a total anti-cheater

). Anyway, I can't. When setting the god mode on and turning off the console the game freezes. Did anybody else encounter such a problem? The music plays on, I can move around the mouse pointer but clicking or anything else doesn't change a damn thing. All that helps is Ctrl+Alt+Del.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:05 am

To avoid the game freezing, go first to the menu (Esc) before you go into the console, then close console and resume game from the menu.

pennypincher · Post by **pennypincher** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:08 am

[QUOTE=Anaximander]I have no issue with the werewolf encounter. Sure, it's kind of bogus that no weapon or discipline in the game can touch it, but it can be killed. You just have to use your surroundings to lure it into a trap. This is by no means the first game to implement such an encounter. In Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver all the bosses were completely impervious to all of your standard attacks. Each encounter wasn't just a fight, it was also a puzzle. You had to figure out how to weaken or destroy your opponent using something in the environment. I view the Griffith Park werewolf the same way.

Now, if there was absolutely no way to destroy the beast I would deffinately take issue with it. As it is, I kill the thing every time with no difficulty. It has to stop moving for it's attack animation, so you really just have to keep moving and avoid getting stuck. Faster movement does make this easier, so character with Celerity have a distinct advantage here. The scary part is when you have to crawl through that little hole in the chain link fence. Crouching to get through it really slows you down, and it's easy to get stuck there.[/QUOTE]

In fairness to those who have trouble with this section, Soul Reaver bosses do very small damage and usual only send you back to the Underworld where you regenerate and return... This encounter is do or die. Get half way done and the Werewolf catches up? Seeya latter!

Now, that being said, I belive the encounter was meant to be a puzzle as well. I found it a pleasant change not to be back stepping while shooting or swingging a sword wildly... And it realisticaly represents how battles with Werewolves all to often go. Not many Vampires are brave enough to look at 9.5 feet of hair, claws and muscles that is running at them full pace and say: "I'll look it in the eye and dominate it"... Lets face it, if it doesn't work you shall be hence forth known as "Snr Smeer! The smeeriest smeer that ever covered a grassy hill".

Shizz · Post by **Shizz** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:08 am

I personally quite like the werewolf-thing. While I never had the problem of constantly having to reload and all that, I think it's a good means of reminding you that, yes, there are beings out there that are just more powerful than you, Vampire and all. I'm not entirely familiar with the P&P-Game, but as far as I know going up against a werewolf is suicide there, either. It's a nice trick to show the player that no matter how badass his char is, there's no reason to think he's the biggest bully on the block. And it's a nice change to the "kill it until it's dead" way of sorting out problems of this kind.
Also, actually making it vulnerable to "conventional" means of combat would make most players think that shooting/slashing/bloodmagicking it was the suggested solution to this situation - and obviously, trying to kill it in melee would be more frustrating by _far_ than knowing from the beginning that one has to think of another way to resolve this situation.