If anyone can solve this it's you guys.

Fiona · Post by **Fiona** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:08 pm

Aptitude for what?

Damuna_Nova · Post by **Damuna_Nova** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:19 pm

[QUOTE=Fiona]Aptitude for what?[/QUOTE]

It's the government, who needs aptitude when you've got good publicity?

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:21 pm

It basically just judges problem solving skills and the like. It's administered by Brevard JobLink which is an unemployment office of sorts. The company I work for uses this test to screen new hire candidates.

ellipsis jones · Post by **ellipsis jones** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:32 pm

I'd say whale:mouse. I think they evolved at roughly the same time (very roughly, since we're talking in terms of tens of millions of years) from a common precursor. One became a dedicated land creature, while the other eventually returned to the sea.

Likewise, I think frogs and dinosaurs evolved at roughly the same time from precursor reptiles or fish or something (a little help here from someone who knows what he's talking about would be nice). One chose the land, the other chose water, at least partially.

Obviously the analogy isn't the best one... whales and mice are both mammals, but frogs and dinosaurs are different classes. And 'dinosaur' is a mighty big category compared to 'whale' and 'frog'.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:43 pm

My two cents worth

frogs and dinosaurs are often thought of as both reptiles, but aren't. Whales and fish are often thought of as fish and aren't.

So, going by the relation that both seem the same but aren't, I'll go with fish as my answer.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:55 pm

Since it's part of a simple logic test, I'd suppose they are not expecting people to know taxonomy and that it's more along the lines of

"small waterdwelling animal is to humongous landdwelling animal as humongous waterdwelling animal is to small landdwelling animal"

This excludes both fish and bird. Then the question becomes mouse or snake.

Argument for snake
Frog/dinosaur: legged
Whale/snake: legless

Argument for mouse
Frog/dinosaur: cold blooded
Whale/mouse: warm blooded

But in that case Fish:dinosaur:

mouse would have been more logical, so I suppose they took frog for a reason (legs).

So I get
frog:dinosaur:

snake = small legged water animal:large legged land animal::large legless water animal:small legless land animal

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:11 pm

But if the test is supposed to be logical the relationship can not be small/large = large/small as this is not correct. If you compare quantities the larger quantity must both be on the same side of the division for it to make sense.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:20 pm

[QUOTE=Dottie]But if the test is supposed to be logical the relationship can not be small/large = large/small as this is not correct. If you compare quantities the larger quantity must both be on the same side of the division for it to make sense.[/QUOTE]Not necessarily.

2 possibilities:
1. Size might not matter (in this case

) which would get:
legged water animal:legged land animal::legless water animal:legless land animal

2. Rather than absolute size, the fact that frog and dinosaur and whale and snake are in different and opposite size categories might be counted.

I'm tempted by the first solution, as it is the more elegant one (and moreover snakes can get fairly big).

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:39 pm

[QUOTE=Lestat]Not necessarily.

2 possibilities:
1. Size might not matter (in this case

) which would get:
legged water animal:legged land animal::legless water animal:legless land animal

I'm tempted by the first solution, as it is the more elegant one (and moreover snakes can get fairly big).[/QUOTE]

Yes, that would be an improvement.

Though IMO, since this question is supposed to measure something, there should be no compelling argument against any correct solution. And neither frogs, dinosaurs or snakes are clearly water or land based animals.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:56 pm

[QUOTE=Dottie]Yes, that would be an improvement.

Though IMO, since this question is supposed to measure something, there should be no compelling argument against any correct solution. And neither frogs, dinosaurs or snakes are clearly water or land based animals.[/QUOTE]
Dinosaurs are clearly land-based.

Damuna_Nova · Post by **Damuna_Nova** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:59 pm

[QUOTE=Rookierookie]Dinosaurs are clearly land-based.[/QUOTE]

Sarcasm? Because there were flying and swimming dinosaurs...

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:09 am

[QUOTE=Damuna_Nova]Sarcasm? Because there were flying and swimming dinosaurs...[/QUOTE]
Contemporaries of dinosaurs, but no dinosaurs. Large reptiles yes, dinosaurs no. Mosasaurs, plesiosaurs & pterodactyls were not dinosaurs.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:43 am

[QUOTE=Damuna_Nova]Sarcasm? Because there were flying and swimming dinosaurs...[/QUOTE]
They are no more dinosaurs than crocodiles and Komodo dragons are dinosaurs.

I learnt that in Primary 1, and never forgot it since.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:59 am

Great discussion guys, but I have yet to see anything that strikes me as the absolute answer. One thing I do know is that this question is completely bogus.

Keep it up and we may find the truth yet.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:35 am

[QUOTE=Lestat]Contemporaries of dinosaurs, but no dinosaurs. Large reptiles yes, dinosaurs no. Mosasaurs, plesiosaurs & pterodactyls were not dinosaurs.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, wrong by me. But my point stands regardless of this fact.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:41 am

The point is, it was a multiple choice question with no space to elaborate on your answer in a reasoning/logic/linguistic test, rather than an open ended question in a biology exam.
That's why I tend to look for simple logical day-to-day categories such as large/small; land-based/water-based; legged/legless rather than zoological taxonomic categories which are not necessarily known by a majority of people. And it means that the people thought that one answer was better than the others.

Of course with these type of test it could be less straightforward than just one out of four is right and the others are wrong, it might be that different values were accorded to different possibilities depending on their "fit"; so it might be something like:

snake: +2 points (landdwelling & legless)
mouse: +1 point (landdwelling)
fish: +1 points (legless)
bird: -4 points (none of these)

With normally the average at least being 0, if not lower, to discourage guessing.

shana · Post by **shana** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:34 pm

[QUOTE=jopperm2]Great discussion guys, but I have yet to see anything that strikes me as the absolute answer. One thing I do know is that this question is completely bogus.

Keep it up and we may find the truth yet.[/QUOTE]

Do you know how your company interprets the answers? Is there a space to explain your answer on the test?

Fallenhero · Post by **Fallenhero** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:40 pm

Poor problem

This problem may be the problem. All too often standardized tests are poorly written or edited leaving no unique solution.

Nothing clicks for me. I don't see a frog as a water animal. It's more connected to the water than a Dino but not totally emmersed in it like a whale. The size progression from small to big is obvious but when the second halve starts with whale it can only go the opposite way which doesn't usually happen in these types of questions.

I'd be interested to hear what the test givers have to say for themselves.

Fiona · Post by **Fiona** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:58 pm

I agree with that. It is a wee bit difficult to take this seriously as an "aptitude test" for anything reasonable at all.

Welcome to SYM, Fallenhero

Fallenhero · Post by **Fallenhero** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:52 am

Thanks Fionna. It took me awhile to see it was here. I guess that says a lot about my aptitude.