Automap...making...me...angry!

[GamerX51]

Hello, I'm new to these forums. I just bought DL:CE and so far I love it. (all except for the absolutely screwed-up automapping feature!) Is there any way to I can just get a full map of all the game areas from the start? I would like to be able to actually SEE where the hell I'm going for once!

It took me over an hour to find my way from Fargrove to Skuldoon, getting lost about twenty or so times and getting killed at least that many times in the process! The AI in this game has a nasty habit of spawning enemies off to the sides, in areas where the automap isn't filled in, so I'm never able to see the enemies until they're on top of me.

I could live with the automap if I could get in-game maps that would fill the automap in (Like in Neverwinter Nights), but you can't even get those! This is really driving me up the wall. Is there a mod or a savegame editor that will let me have a full automap without me having to go to every single place on the map to get one? Any help would be greatly appriciated.

[George_K]

Did you ever wonder what the sticky, near the top of the page meant "Walkthrough, Maps, and More" ?

[Frodo1]

Dude, the game experience should be about exploration! Not the quick and easy find. That you got killed about 20 times just tells me that you're new to the game and don't yet realize that the monsters you face if you leave out the gate you did are about twice as powerful as the ones you'd face if you followed the main questline. You may be playing out the thieves guild quest right away. That's just plain difficult. Wait til you meet the boss you'll get sent after

I'm glad that you are enjoying the game. The C/E is pretty cool. Chill a little and take Disk Master George_K's advise.

PS If you REALLY want to get angry, buy the original, non collector's edition of DL and play it unpatched. Then, you'll know the meaning of angry!!!

[GamerX51]

Dude, the game experience should be about exploration! Not the quick and easy find. That you got killed about 20 times just tells me that you're new to the game and don't yet realize that the monsters you face if you leave out the gate you did are about twice as powerful as the ones you'd face if you followed the main quest line. You may be playing out the thieves guild quest right away. That's just plain difficult. Wait til you meet the boss you'll get sent after

But I am following the main quest line! That's what's making me angry. And I'm not following the thieves guild quest, my character is a Fighter/Mage, so there wouldn't be much point in going to skulldoon early.

And as for the walkthroughs and maps... well, If I can't understand them, then they're not going to be much help now are they? They might as well have been written in Greek, for all the good they've done me so far. And I understand that the game should be about exploration, I'm not saying that the maps should have all of the secrets and hidden areas marked, just that it would much less frustrating for those of us who haven't been playing RPGs for very long if we could get around without getting lost a gazillion times along the way!

And it really doesn't matter how high level your character is when you're having to fight 12 to 13 wolves and goblins every 60 seconds. That many battles can wear out even the toughest charcters! (And I have the random encounter rate set as low as it will go! ) Anyway, sorry if I ruffled a few feathers with my query, I just wanted some way that I could get a full automap early. Didn't mean to offend anyone's sensibilities.

[George_K]

Version 1.3 turned down the spawn rate but it went right back up in CE, plus when your vitality gets high enough to make your life approach or exceed 100, enemies also start to get more powerful and resistant. When you find the merchant, away from Fargrove, that sells Blast Nova scrolls, get all you can afford. Also get all heal and poison potions you can afford.

Make sure that, in options, you set difficulty to easy and spawning to less frequent.

[Frodo1]

Let's talk about your character then. Do you have your second tier slots filled? What kinds of skills, weapons and armor are you using? For instance, with a little gold and some points in Nether Magic, you can create poison cloud spells. These are very effective at controlling those ridiculous mobs of spiders and wolves you are encountering. Each magic branch has something to fit your needs. Do you have enough points in agility and dexterity? These will make you a more effective fighter and reduce the damage that you take.

[GamerX51]

By the time I have to go to Skulldoon, I usually have full plate armor with a greatsword and an elven longbow. I also have second tier in both my classes. (Knight & Sorcerer, respectively) I haven't figured out what third tier class I'm going for yet. (Any suggestions would be appreciated.)

As for magic, I usually specialize in Rune Magic, (for the defensive and stat-boosting spells) augmented with some Arcane Magic spells (I.E. Fireball, Iceball, Wind-Based spells, Zap, and Mass Destruction spells.) I don't really like Nether Magic because of it's "Evil" nature. I'm building a good, chivalrous type character who fights evil, so it really wouldn't be logical to have him use dark magic to fight the forces of darkness. (I like to role-play my characters as I'm playing the game. )

Personally, I think I have a fairly well-rounded character, but I am by no means an expert in such matters. So if any of you veterans have any suggestions as to how I could improve my character then by all means,
please do offer them.

[Frodo1]

I can appreciate your role playing choice. Did you give Celestial Magic consideration for your good character?

A possible problem you may be facing is that your character is really split between the two basic magic developmental combos, celestial/rune and arcane/nether, and neither of these is particularly strong because you chose the knight class, which doesn't help you build up your magic skills at all. So, you have 2 bonuses in Arcane, one in Celestial that you don't use, one in Nether that you don't use, and none in Rune, which you do use. This means that your magic damage is too weak for the level of your character. Magic advancement costs too much for you. You can match Arcane with either Celestial or Rune, but you have to make the right class choices. Or, you can focus on rune/celestial as a role playing choice.

I would suggest the following: choose a focus on magic or melee, and forget about your bow. If you use a bow at all that is a clear sign that your magic spells are way weak. Of course, this could be a role-playing choice too.

Consider replaying the game from the start. I always save my character before I choose additional classes. If you did that, great. If not, consider it. You can use one of these save points if its strategically viable.

I think you should explore a celestial/battlemage or a celestial/valkyrie, or even a mix of one of these combos with an enchantress. I'm a guy, but I've found the female characters to be pretty awesome. Try to create a mix that has solid bonuses for two of the three magic classes, excluding nether of course. A celestial/valkyrie would give you two learning bonuses in both rune and celestial magic, and some bonuses for heavy equipment.

WIth Rune magic, make sure to use Shards of Stone as your main skill. This is awesome when you get to a decent level of points in rune magic. Virtually no enemies have any resistance to it. I don't use the buffs much, accept for Rune Blade. This is the most limited magic category, but those two skills make it worthwhile.

I would suggest that you use Ice Shards instead of Ice Ball. It does way more damage and is a real crowd control skill. fireball does what Ice Ball does, but better, anyway. Focus on Whirlwind for your air skill. It is awesome. At high levels a few of these can take out dragons with ease.

I'll leave celestial for later, if you want any info.

Finally, I wonder if you have buffed yourself up enough before re-entering Fargrove. Level 14 or so is pretty good at that point. I sometimes reach level 18 before returning there.

Just know that Dungeon Lords tends to be a game where you either die a lot, or where you are in command most of the time. Dying occasionally just means you have a healthy competitive character.

Have fun!

PS I dwelled on magic development in this post, but a well-rounded character is optimal, doable and seems to be your focus.

[GamerX51]

Thanks for the reply Frodo1! Your suggestions are much appreciated. See, the thing is, I started out with the fighter class, which probably limited my effectiveness with magic from the get go. I saved my game right at the very beginning, before I talked to Simon, and once immediately after I got out of the theater and into Fargrove. So I can easily go back and retake class quests, if necessary.

And the bow is more of a role playing choice than anything else, but I've found that it also helps me out against flying enemies like those damn bats or those annoying fire drakes. ( Well, provided I can get them one on one and not get an entire swarm on my ass. ) Without a bow, I would have to either waste magic, or try to fight them with my sword. (Not a good idea)

I'm a really conservative fighter, so I try to save my magic for important battles that I can't afford to lose, or if I'm in danger and need to save my own life. Also, I've put 5 skill levels in athletics and I've learned how to fight while dodging, so I can usually keep some distance between myself and an enemy. And I would like some additional info on Celestial Magic. Your suggestions in regards to magic are good ones, but what if I took the Lord class to get a boost in rune magic? Would that even it out? Or perhaps I could take the wizard class to boost my magic skills? I really would like to keep my fighter class, if at all possible. Do you have any other suggestions for me?

EDIT: In regards to Rune Magic Spells, What Level do I have to be at to use the most powerful spells? (I.E. Vengeance and Urth's Wrath.) I used George_k's savegame editor to give myself all of the rune spells, and the rune stones to use them because I didn't want to have to rely on chance to get the ones I wanted from treasure chests. But half of the spells do absolutely nothing when I try to use them. (Same thing goes for Arcane magic too, now that I think about it.) Is there something I'm not doing right with the editor?

[swcarter]

I took out the big mod stick from about the point where the thread started to devolve. If you guys would like to continue the discussion, and if you can do so without insulting each other, you're welcome to do it.

SWC