Is George Bush savvy, or a moron? (No spam. Stay the course.)

[fable]

For years--in fact, ever since I carefully reread the material on his Texas governorship, while he was running for the US Presidency--I considered Dubya a shrewd cynic who played up being a bumbling, religious hick to get the vote. After all, he was Harvard educated, and typically, inarticulate people don't do well at Harvard. (Or in Massachusetts, for that matter.) But now I've read this. Although I still haven't made my mind up, and incline towards thinking he's still playing a dimwit, it gives pause for thought. Or could he be a close-minded anti-intellectual tyrant who's still playing up the dope angle? What do you think?

[Masa]

If he's acting he should receive an oscar. He's obviously missing a few marbles.

[mr_sir]

I don't think he is as stupid as he comes across. He's not the brightest spark in the world, but I think he is a lot cleverer than he seems, and good at manipulating things to get what he wants. He obviously knows how to get votes or he wouldn't be in power. Of course, he could just have a good group of advisors

[Siberys]

Meh, I don't like the way he's handled a lot of situations he's been in, but I won't resort to namecalling.

I would, at most say he's done a pretty crappy job, but IMO he isn't the worst president. I couldn't judge him as the worst as that would be biased, since I haven't studied every major and minor decision the other 40 some presidents have had to make.

All in all, it could be worse is about as much as I can say.

[fable]

Now, let's not stray into giving him a job rating. Perhaps I should be clearer: if you think Dubya's public appearances/announcements aren't good at all, but buffoonish, is that because he is an extremely clever politician using this to manipulate a certain group of voters, a buffoon, or a not particularly bright person who nevertheless knows how to manipulate others?

There: that might be better.

[Lestat]

I went for the third option. Bush might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but he has political savvy and (un)healthy dose of cunning. That of itself is not a moral or political judgment.

Personally I think that Bill Clinton belongs in the same category (and is even better at it than Bush). That doesn't make one worse than the other (it's other things that make one worse than the other ).

[Dowaco]

I don't think he is a moron nor do I think he is a genius. He projects an average guy personna but is probably more intelligent than he comes across. If it is an act its not far off from his actual self. I have heard that he is more likable and persuasive in person than his public image would lead you to believe.

Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld are all probably incredibly bright but have no personality at all. In fact, Bush seems surrounded by highly capable bright people with little charisma.

[fable]

I've made a few word changes to the poll options, above, just to clarify the choices: my bad. If you want your vote changed, drop me a PM.

[Magrus]

My opinion is this: He was hand picked because, as a female friend of mine said "He may not have anything to say that I like, but he is still cute." Not to mention, he has famous, rich, powerful parents. Appearance, more than anything will sway a close election in this country, sad as that is. I believe that he had his way paved ahead of him through school and college by his rich father, and he truly isn't nearly as smart as he should have needed to be to get through Harvard.

However, I am not sure how intelligent the man really is. It is entirely possible that the group of people who supported him for his run for presidency wanted a dim-witted, cute, pedigree puppet. Someone just smart enough to get into office, and understand the prestige and benefits of being in office. Stupid enough to know they cannot do the job themselves, and need the help of those backing them. I believe however, those backing him didn't realize just how incompetant the man really is.

Thinking over US foreign policy during both of the reigns of the Bush family....it would not make sense to have a moronic, bumbling fool in office as a face for the outside world. The foreign policy has been to conquer what this country needs most. Making ourselves seem to be run by an idiot when the majority of the armed forces is outside the country is a tactical flaw on a scale ranking with Napolean invading Russia in winter.

It just makes sense, to me, in the stance of "change for the good ol' days" to have a former presidents son to bring back nostalgic feelings of the times before a democrat was in power. Having a goofy, cute one to make women say "aww, he's cute!" and sway them to not disagree with the husbands that want to vote for them helps as well. Once the man was in power, they could use that charismatic figure to do whatever they wanted. Namely, IMHO, take over any countries which were on the "black list" of the people who voted them into power which had a surplus of oil there. Why? To see to it they have a monopoly on one of the most valuable resources in the world.

Why would that be important? The American National Deficit is horrendous. This country is not on top of the world. It is buried under an insane amount of debt. If ever the countries this country owes money to demanded their money back, this place could end up being caught in a world war to keep control of itself. Owning the oil in the Middle East seems to be the goal the government is after. Piecing together rumors, assumptions, random facts, and lies to paint a picture to turn the citizens against the general culture over there has been going on since I was in elementary school in the 80's. I distinctly remember not wanting Bush Senior in power when he first ran for president when I was little.

I believe he is a little puppet for his father and his fathers friends to be perfectly honest. A dumb, charismatic puppet who has been groomed to be in this job ever since daddy failed to accomplish what he wanted to do.

[JonIrenicus]

He obviously knows how to get votes or he wouldn't be in power.

Dubya's good ol' buddies got him into office, not once but twice. Two million democratic votes down the drain. No real investigations.

Anyone that has to do that obviously has to have some skill. Not the skills for President of course but life is funny. Corrupted politicians always win. Why you may ask? They cheat, lie, steal, and kill. (Our great democratic senator, Wellstone, was killed in a plane crash, one week before he would have been re-elected).

It is obvious that I don't think W is fit to be President. Other then he cheated his way to the top, he also abused cocaine and booze. The cocaine abuse is probably why he isn't bright as he should be and why he has difficulty with public speaking (or anything for that matter). People bring up that he went to Harvard and I am sure he wouldn't have gotten there without daddy's help. He refuses to release his transcripts which is a red flag in my book for he didn't do that well.

Of course I am also judging him from the past. So presently I still think he is an idiot. He plays that card quite well too. It is the men behind the scenes helping bush that I am worried about.

[Darzog]

Looking back on his history, specifically his political debates and positions in his bid for Texas Governor, it seems apparent that he has the ability to be eloquent and forceful in public addresses. Looking at him now, it is even more obvious that he can be bumbling and tongue-tied. I think that both were an act, initially to outshow his opponents in Texas and to play the sympathy card (I can't think of another way to say what I mean) when running for President. I think the reality is somewhere in the middle.

No doubt he has surrounded himself with very powerful, very shrewd, very opinionated people and they have all done what they can to put him where he is today. Friends of Daddy, friends from Texas, friends from school have all been folded into his rise, much as Magrus has said.

One reason that I think he chose the hillbilly persona for this position is because it compliments what's happening in the background very well. He and his cabinet have made very drastic changes to the country since he's been in office. Things always swing a little with a new President but Bush has made a more significant impact than most. And the explicit calculation that has gone into his advertising campaigns shows that there is a very specific effort put into his agenda (I don't think he is the mastermind but there definitely is one). Having a front man that is seen as a sheepish, wet-behind-the-ears cowboy makes it very easy to deny the intelligence and power emenating from the party right now (and I'm not linking intelligence with being right or good so this isn't a claim that he's doing a good job or doing things well).

But I don't think that Bush has orchestrated all of the things around him: 9/11, Isreal vs. Lebanon, Iranian nukes, North Korean nukes, bombings in UK and Spain, etc. I think he has done everything in his power to capitalize on what has happened, but so would any other President. But I think the claim that he or his administration have had a hand in creating these situations are giving him too much credit. I just think he is a great opportunist and has a fabulous PR man.

[Chimaera182]

You can't get as far as W.'s gotten without being intelligent in some way. You can have English as your first language and speak it with the skill of a 4 year old on novacaine, but it doesn't mean you're stupid. To even be as opportunistic as Darzog mentioned implies a certain amount of intelligence. I know I've called him dumb and an idiot time and again, but I apply those epithets with such regularity to a great majority of people that it kind of loses its meaning. But is W. really as dumb as he behaves?

Well, what kind of intelligence are we grading him on, anyway? Someone can be quite saavy in the "book smarts" area and still be quite clueless about a lot of things (I've seen this mentioned time and time again about doctors). But given that he went to Harvard, one has to assume he has a certain degree of "book smarts" about him.

[JonIrenicus]

But is W. really as dumb as he behaves?

Aren't people judged on their behavior? If you act dumb over and over, I don't care if you are President or whatever, you act dumb then you are dumb. I think many people over estimate our President's intelligence and his ability to play 'deer in headlights.' If you read his past, he really is dumb as he behaves.

But given that he went to Harvard, one has to assume he has a certain degree of "book smarts" about him.

Harvard really isn't that hard to get in to and as long as you have the money for it, they will pretty much accept you. Besides that, he majored in business and he recieved his Masters in Business. His family is business. His blood is business. Yet when you read about his buniness's, he didn't do that well. I mean he went to harvard

[Magrus]

Meh, living in this town, I have learned that money will buy you entrance to damn near everywhere. That, or OUT of damn near everywhere. Looking at it from the point of view of a prestigious college, and a rich family in turn. The college can't truly be hurt by one idiot going through it. However, they took in a former presidents son. Even if the person were a complete idiot, that would be prestigious in and of itself. If they got a ton of money to let his idiocy slide through, they can say, redo their library or something. It makes sense to the reality I have seen going on around me.

[Dowaco]

Intelligent politician is an oxymoron. All politicians are nothing more than egotistical opportunists. If they want intelligence to be part of their platform, they say "wise leader" in their ads. To think that a president should be intelligent is not understanding how elections work on the national level.
High intelligence is seen as a negative and eggheads do not get elected (ask Adlai Stevenson)

Bush is a regular guy with regular intelligence who came from a family with exceptional money and power. He knows how to use money and power and how to get elected to office. The US presidency is a committee of party loyal advisors where the president is just the front man. He is an image/icon of the executive branch so his intrinsic inteligence is moot. All that matters is that he can convey a positive image to the desired constituency.
Bush appeals to Americans in the West, Midwest and South, a flawed good old boy that they can understand. Just like Bill Clinton was identified with by northeast liberals who think marital fidelity is optional and weed is cool and everybody lies about it anyway so whats the big deal. No judgements, that's just the reality of trying to appeal to 51% of the voters. (or 40% in a three way race)

[JonIrenicus]

All politicians are nothing more than egotistical opportunists.

Pretty general statement there. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wellstone"]A non-egotistical politician[/url]

[Darzog]

Intelligent politician is an oxymoron. All politicians are nothing more than egotistical opportunists. ... High intelligence is seen as a negative and eggheads do not get elected (ask Adlai Stevenson)

If you think no politicians are, or have the capacity, for intelligence then I think you are naive. Some politicians are very intelligent.

Bush is a regular guy with regular intelligence who came from a family with exceptional money and power. He knows how to use money and power and how to get elected to office. ...

Knowing how to use money and power also require intelligence. Intelligence is not only book smarts but being able to use and manipulate any form of knowledge.

[Dowaco]

I think politicians can be intelligent or stupid just as some carpenters (or insert any profession) can be intelligent or stupid. But I think that intelligence is not what drives them. Politics is about image and power. If you can appeal to the right demographic then it matters not if you are a sage or a buffoon. You will be used by the party you have chosen to align with.

At the local level, politics might be about making a difference in your town, but for the 100 senators and the president, its about preserving power for your party and getting reelected. To desire power for power's sake is egotistical IMO.

Jon: I don't know much about Mr. Wellstone, but it seems his PR people have created a very warm and caring image for him. I saw nothing in the link you provided to imply that he has no ego. On the contrary, it seems the thing he desired most was to get reelected.

Darzog: Regular or average intelligence is nothing to scoff at, it would make Bush smarter than half the people in the country. Using power and money is easy if you have it to begin with. Losing both could mean that you are not intelligent, and gaining more of both would support the idea that you are smart.

I admit that I am very cynical about politicians. They are at the top of my list of disliked people.

[JonIrenicus]

Jon: I don't know much about Mr. Wellstone, but it seems his PR people have created a very warm and caring image for him. I saw nothing in the link you provided to imply that he has no ego. On the contrary, it seems the thing he desired most was to get reelected.

Of course his PR makes him look good, that's what they do. And he is dead so they are not going to make him look bad even if he was (which he wasn't).

His desire was to get re-elected only to help the people. He wasn't rich, not even close. His commericals were like 'I don't have a lot of time so I'll make this quick....' he was a true people's person.

P.S. You have to have an ego, EVERYONE does.

[Gwalchmai]

I had to vote for considering George W. Bush a moron, but I suspect it is subject specific stupidity. My opinion is that he is the spoiled younger son in a privileged family. I think he has never, ever, had that sort of Mr-Smith-Goes-To-Washington kind of concern for the betterment of America that we would all wish on our politicians. He is moronic about almost all aspects of good politics, but he is brilliant about covering his mistakes by ignoring, rephrasing, obfuscating, and shifting blame.