Now I am really confused

[CM]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/speak ... 65-p5.html

I apologise I was busy trying to maintain respect for people here. That thread is where you flamed kayless. There are other threads as well but I don't have the energy anymore. If you want you can link the thread in the moderator forums. After all buck commented in the thread himself.

Btw brilliant arm-chair moderating SYM with the 1500 posts limit idea. I never knew you had it in you.

[Darzog]

Btw brilliant arm-chair moderating SYM with the 1500 posts limit idea. I never knew you had it in you.

Come on now, we're all at least close to civil at this point. Passive-aggressive comments like this will just bleed back into bashing, thread closures and hurt feelings.

Can't we try to be at least a little constructive in each post?
Yes I recognize the irony coming from someone like me.

[C Elegans]

Ok, so point out exactly where I flame Kayless in this thread? Quote, please?

[CM]

Honestly Darzog I am not really worried about being banned. After my PM conversation with Buck, I just don't care. CE you can take the exact quote from the posts in the moderator forum. They are there. Denial in this thread does not make your actions and comments in another threads obsolete.

And I take my leave again. Its utterly disappointing when people break rules, acknowlegde it and only go back on it to save face on an internet site where their reputation has no substantive value at all.

[C Elegans]

Darker sections include such things as the Sailor Saturn incident, Kayless leaving, etc, etc. You do, admittedly, have been a major participant in what could be described as some of the "darker" periods in SYM history, am I correct?

Darker periods? Unfortunately people have always been banned from GB for various Forum Rule violations.
Major participant? I was a member of SYM, yes. Sailor Saturn and I used to discuss evolution (she was a Creationist) and a little physics but then the 9/11 occurred and we ceased our discussion because it felt trivial at the time. I was not at all involved in her banning, which you can see if you do a search on her name or mine - she was not flaming me (we were friends by then), she flamed other members.

Kayless leaving I know very little about since I never had much contact with him. I don't know how you mean I was a "major participant" in his leaving. IIRC Kayless did not enjoy serious discussions about politics, religion or science, whereas I did. Thus we didn't post in the same threads very often, I believe, and I don't actually know why he was leavning, except what he stated in the thread Fas linked to above.

EDIT: Bye Fas, try to calm down and again: before you leave please point out where my flaming of Kayless occurrs.

[CM]

Fine CE.

Originally Posted by C Elegans
I don't think your smiley is enough to legitimize your naming of the entire SYM as a "hippy haven" because some people here have opinions that are not in line with your christian right wing views.

You bring in Kayless's religion into a thread that has nothing to do with religion or him and his problems. That is a violation of rule number 4. I am not going through the entire text again as it is all in the moderator forum.

[Bloodstalker]

Just to point out, it wasn't simply one or two mods who supported the thread limit, or who spearheaded and forced the motion through once it was brought up. I supported the limit myself, as did the majority of the mods and Buck.

If that is the inpression that the thread limit was some kind of subversion of spam or a couple of people undermining everyone else in coming to the decision, it's mistaken.

[CM]

Bah. It is late. I should not post when i am tired. I did link it to the thread limit discussion.

[ch85us2001]

In my opinion, SYM is a hippy haven. I don't even bother discussing politics or religion anymore, because it seems like I get flamed everytime I do.


@Fas: I really wish you wouldn't leave, but I understand how you feel. Do as you must.

[Ravager]

If that is the inpression that the thread limit was some kind of subversion of spam or a couple of people undermining everyone else in coming to the decision, it's mistaken.

The opposite seems to be true...as if the opposition to the idea was subverting your argument to limit threads...and then the opposition to the idea was kicked out of the playpen because they didn't support the general line.

[CM]

Chus staying in an environment where mods abuse their power and actively act against the wishes and desire of the community is not something I want to do.

I deal with enough fascist actions when i sit at work.

[Darzog]

Honestly Darzog I am not really worried about being banned. ...
<another post>
... I deal with enough fascist actions when i sit at work.

Sorry, I was going to let it lie, but your last comment made me reply again.

I'm not talking about being banned. This discussion isn't useless or trivial. The things being said are obviously important to people. But the comments, especially your last one, make you look unreasonable and petty which in turn minimize your other comments. I think you have raised valid concerns and I wouldn't want them to be disregarded by anyone because you start sounding like you are raving or raging. You have raised your concerns, by the discussion going on there are some that share those concerns and you do them and yourself a disservice by denegrading into petty name-calling.

If you don't want to continue the discussion you are free to leave, but at least leave your "supporters" with something substantial to support.

[C Elegans]

You bring in Kayless's religion into a thread that has nothing to do with religion or him and his problems. That is a violation of rule number 4. I am not going through the entire text again as it is all in the moderator forum.

And how exactly is this a flame to somebody who has openly stated he is christian and right-wing conservative? Do you think "christian" and "conservative" are invectives? Would you consider it a flame if I called you "muslim" and somebody called me "scientific atheist"?

For instance in this thread, Kayless writes:
"I just happen to be a Christian with some Jewish heritage who comes from a patriotic, pro-life, pro-Republican Party, anti-taxes, anti-foreign policy, biblically literalist family. But I don’t burn people of other religions and I even find certain Zen and Buddhist teachings to be fascinating in their own regard. I'd like to think that an open-minded Christian isn't an oxymoron."
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/speak ... =christian

"I am a republican, a conservative, a Bush supporter, and a Christian."
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/speak ... nservative

He had also previously participated in several discussions about theology and politics.


Kayless posted:
I just feel SYM changed in way that made it no longer appealing to me (especially when some of the more conservative members, like Gruntboy, got banned, turning the place a hippy haven ). If the forums were split I feel the overall tone of the spam forum would revert to what I consider the true SYM.

And I replied: It has been mentioned many times that Gruntboy was banned for repeated personal attacks on other forum members, not because of his policial views, which you appear to try to implicate. I don't think your smiley is enough to legitimise your naming of the entire SYM as a "hippy haven" because some people here have opinions that are not in line with your christian right wing views.

As you can read, Kayless mentions that SYM did not appeal to him a lot after the more conservative members were banned.

Now Fas, please explain to me how my reply to Kayless is violating rule 4:
Be respectful of other people’s creed and religious beliefs. Posting comments that are racist will not be tolerated. Also general statements proclaiming that one religion or culture is better than another won’t be tolerated. If there is a specific aspect of that culture or religion that you wish to discuss, you may do so but be prepared to provide sources and logical rationales. Threads that persistently violate this will be closed. If there is an attempt by one person to agitate other members or to try to get a thread closed by their behavior, that person will be warned or lose their posting privileges.

What is in the moderator forum, Fas? Please do not fabricate things that do not exist. The thread you linked to was closed because the thread starter asked for it, as some members had sent PM:s complaining that Mods were flaming each other. Now, if you read the entire thread, consider who was flaming anyone?

[Bloodstalker]

The opposite seems to be true...as if the opposition to the idea was subverting your argument to limit threads...and then the opposition to the idea was kicked out of the playpen because they didn't support the general line.

Yes, it can indeed seem to be true. Lots of things can seem to be true, and can be remarkably easy to convince other people that they are fact, esp when you try hard enough.

Buck hasn't chosen to disclose his reasons for his actions, so any attempt to pin a reason on the action is simply speculation, no matter who makes the attempt.

I'm not a politician, and I'm not a lawyer. I also don't own this site. All I am is a moderator, which means I simply enforce the guideline that Buck sets out for the site. The idea was raised, it was discussed, the vast majority of the mods were in favor, including the four mods who are directly involved with SYM, and Buck implemented it. To be honest, I've not been a part of many boards where the Admin would give two shakes about discussing his actions.

As to the reasons for the stripping of mod status, that was Bucks decision, and the fact that people haven't been banned here several times over during this discussion, as would have been the case on most other boards I have been a part of, seems to speak against Buck being a tyrant who simply abuses his power by kicking people out who don't agree with him.

[Chanak]

@BS: Well said, and I think you hit the nail on the head for us all.

[C Elegans]

Btw brilliant arm-chair moderating SYM with the 1500 posts limit idea. I never knew you had it in you.

Here you state I was involved in this idea. What exactly makes you so certain that I was?

[Locke Da'averan]

<snip> seems to speak against Buck being a tyrant who simply abuses his power by kicking people out who don't agree with him.

i don't think buck was being accused of kicking ppl who don't agree with him..?




It was discussed some time ago that when flaming is cleverly disguised people get away with it.. And yes i've seen that happen, but the problem with that is.. how do YOU(not directed towards anyone) know it was meant that way? answer: you don't. If it's not a direct insult you can't really claim 100% that it was one.

From what i remember is that grunt got banned for repeatedly flaming etc, and that he didn't disguise it at all.. he said it bluntly.. But imo there was a catalyst in it. "Disguised flame" for the lack of a better word, that kept fueling the fire. These aren't facts, this is my 2cents on the matter and that example can be used on more than 1 occasion(don't ask me for links, i can't give them, since like i said, this is imo)

People would like to know why they got demoted but if it's personal business don't PM Buck, don't you think if it was public information it hadn't been released?

Also although i don't approve mis-using mod powers do remember these guys aren't being paid at all, they do this on their free time. So i don't understand what's the hussle about the 1500 post limit, if the posting gets totally out of hands, i don't think any mod would be able to keep up and they'd have to shut SYM down or smth(just what i feel and i haven't read all the threads while i've been away)

imo SYM is not nearly as fun as it was before but then again i don't come here that often anymore.. partly because of WoW, partly because when i have come here i haven't found a single thread that had made me smile or even laugh in awhile(now i know that's partly because of the insider jokes but not all).

well i don't see CE's that comment(if there's something else i don't know about it)to Kayless offensive, and i do miss the frog boy alot, alot of what made SYM fun died when that happened for me atleast. Just seems that you're on a personal vendetta here for some old grudges.. i know i don't know all the facts but please post links where mod flaming has happened and ppl can judge it themselves, that's what i think..

and everyone remember..
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Nipple

[Xandax]

This thread is going nowhere.

Fact of the matter @Fas/CM: Your initial thread where deleted, because it was nothing but inflamatory rant filled with infactualities and extreeme personal bias.It is custom to close and often delete such threads at this board, hence the forum rule of "taking it to PM".
An inflamatory tone you contiune down this thread multiple times, plus you reposted the deleted post.

Secondly: yes, moderators have borken rules before and been allowed to stay on staff. Fas/CM did this as well and kept his moderator title.
However, every moderator is also just a "human being" and a normal poster at time and will make errornous judgement calls, but if a moderator does so repeatedly, you can be sure that Buck will take action and they will be removed.
I fail to see any relevance what so ever over regarding this compared to what happened here, other then to display personal grudge with other people.

Thirdly: Far from all bannings gets told ot the "public". Another wrong statement. This - however, again has nothing to do with this issue, and is only used to try and promot some elaborate "moderator conspiracy" and "hypocrasy".

Last: This decision was Buck's alone, not some "Moderator conspiracy".
Seeing as Buck has made a post, in which he explains this issue: http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/speak ... 79028.html

I see no reason for keeping this thread open as it is simply encouraging some sort of witch hunt and is request for information which isn't public, and which Buck have said he will not disclose publically.

This thread is closed.
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