Difference between double swords and double axes...?

[fakemanzero]

I know exactly what 19-20/x2 on double swords means, but on axes it just says x3 - does that mean it only crits on 20, or what?

Also: is it true that if a weapon is keen its crit range is changed from 19-20 to 15-20? Are there any keen double-axes, and if so what is their range?

edit: i just found the answer myself, i was right - x3 just means that crits happen only on 20, but do three times a normal hit. However, mathematically, that makes double swords superior if that's their only difference... they crit twice as often, but do two thirds the crit amount instead of half.

I also found that keen and imp. crit double your crit range, thats what brings a 19-20 down to 15-20... But that doesn't change the fact that keen double axes are still inferior - if you multiply two sides of an equation by the same number it doesnt change the equation at all.

Why would anyone ever choose double axes, aside from any RP reason?

[Darzog]

Actually, mathematically double axes and two-bladed swords are identical in damage. Let's look at the full equation:

For reference later (you can create a matrix in Excel to verify this if you want):
d8 = 1 - 8 = 4.5 average
2d8 = 2 - 16 = 9 average
3d8 = 3 - 24 = 13.5 average
Axe damage = d8/d8 and a x3 critical on a roll of 20
Sword damage = d8/d8 and a x2 critical on rolls of 19 and 20

Let's assume both weapons will attack with the same speed and that since both are two-handed we can focus on a single attack of d8 for both and assume any multiplicitive effects will increase both equally. If we prove that a single d8 attack is greater for either that scaling to two-handed calculations will result in the same weapon being greater. (These assumptions are all valid based on my understanding of NWN combat but if they aren't let me know).

OK, so let's calculate the total average damage of a double axe:
On a roll of 1 - 19 the axe will do d8 or 4.5 average damage
On a roll of 20 the axe will do 2d8 or 9 average damage
The total average damage is (19*4.5 + 13.5) / 20 = 4.95

Let's do the same for the sword:
On a roll of 1 - 18 the sword will do d8 or 4.5 average damage
On a roll of 19-20 the sword will do 2d8 or 9 average damage
The total average damage is (18*4.5 + 2*9) / 20 = 4.95

For both sword and axe, they do d8 from 1-18 so we can discount that damage for both. Looking at 19-20 for a sword, it does 2d8 for each, averaging we get (2d8 + 2d8) / 2 = 2d8 average. For the axe in those same rolls it does d8 for one roll and 3d8 for the other roll, giving an average of (d8 + 3d8) / 2 = 2d8.

You will find the same holds true if you add keen and improved critical. Anything that doubles or triples the critical range will keep the weapon damages equal. If anything added a constant amount of critical range (like if both swords and axes gained an extra roll into critical) then the axe would win out with it's x3 damage.

[Eran of Arcadia]

That's why I choose based on style, not numbers. If you think your character looks better with an axe, give them an axe. If you think they look better with a sword, give them a sword. You can sit down and figure out mathematically the precise combination that will give you a slight edge, but I just go with what looks coolest.

[fakemanzero]

I thought you did some math wrong, but it turned out to be a typo:

The damage for axes should be (19*4.5+3*4.5)/20, which is 4.95.

Now that I'm sober, I see that you can't just look at the crit range because that's ignoring the fact that axes get one extra normal attack as well. I was comparing, in essence, the sword range of 19-20 with the axe range of 20 only. Dur.

That doesn't change the fact, however, that swords are much more likely to have keen on them - if gamebanshee is correct, there is only one double axe with it, and it isn't until HotU. I'll stick with two-sided swords.

[Darzog]

You're right, I made a typo, it's fixed.

[Morgg]

The way i see it they arent even close if you get imp crit then your keen double sword crits 15-20 , get lv 7 weapon master then your at 13-20.Get devastating crit your deathblowing everything out of existance on a 13-20 crit range.This makes an axe far inferior once you get dev crit.

[Fiberfar]

The way i see it they arent even close if you get imp crit then your keen double sword crits 15-20 , get lv 7 weapon master then your at 13-20.Get devastating crit your deathblowing everything out of existance on a 13-20 crit range.This makes an axe far inferior once you get dev crit.

True, but if you really want to crit everything to kingdom come, get to kukris or two rapiers 10-20 on the crit range

And the monsters (some of them) have high damage reduction, good saves but no immune to crit. You'd crit a lot, but doing no damage.

[Morgg]

Actually that crossed my mind but on the all items in the character tester i was using from all the items from game and 2 expansions, there wasnt a keen scim, rapier or kurki above like plus 2 .Not to mention on stuff that DID have dam reduction youd be screwed.