Typing Etiquette?

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:15 pm

Has anyone else noticed the sheer lack of any sort of attempt to at least try to spell and form words properly? I will admit, I do make typos, and grammer errors. However, I do try and correct them if I make a mistake, and attempt to in general, present a post that is able to be read by others without making them cringe.

Does anyone else seem to think that perhaps there should be an addition to forum rules and such for forum etiquette? A correction of common grammatical and spelling errors that are used by people who just don't seem to give a damn?

I have noticed that largely, ignoring errors in grammar and sentance structure, those who have English as a second language tend to spell better than my fellow Americans. This is disturbing to me, grammar and such is one thing, languages differ in how sentances are formed and such. But spelling is easily fixed with throwing whatever word you are thinking of into Dictionary.com and seeing the closest result you come by if you are not sure.

I am by no means a grammar or spelling nazi, but really, getting hammered with "plz do u now how 2 fix dis?" is causing horrid consquences for my stock of rum.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:19 pm

While I totally and 100% agree with you that grammar is defintely needed to help us help them with whatever they write, but sadly I doubt it could be made into a rule. It's basically dictating you have to type a certain way or are not allowed on the forum, to the people with other languages or poor education, that's kind of unfair...

That's my opinion on the rule itself. BUT, I also think that you kinda have to know the word to use l337 speak to begin with. You have to know "That" to use "Dat" or "What" to spell "wut" etc.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:26 pm

Siberys wrote: That's my opinion on the rule itself. BUT, I also think that you kinda have to know the word to use l337 speak to begin with. You have to know "That" to use "Dat" or "What" to spell "wut" etc.

Wut? U can't mean dat?`

On another note: I agree

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:50 pm

As much as it irks me to see posts using Leet and short form generally, IMO something like that would not be the most practical. It would be difficult to enforce because there are so many grey areas. Also, as Syberys states, much as I wince at seeing horrendous language errors, most of which are the result of laziness, I'm really not comfortable with the idea of telling people how they should type. I've thought this question over before on a few occasions, and I've finally concluded that a rule on language use could end up causing more problems than it solves.
That is just my two cents though

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:14 pm

I don't think it should be a rule for reasons stated above but I do wish to add that when people intentionally write that 'shortened' version it actually makes it difficult for some of us non-native English speakers to understand what it is that is written. I have to sound it out sometimes and that irritates me to no end.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:23 pm

Hmm. What about a virus that attacks the computers of those who do such things and if the spell checker finds outrageous errors, it changes the font for the PC to Wing Dings? You know, just to make things incoherant for both parties involved?

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:26 pm

Ashen wrote:I don't think it should be a rule for reasons stated above but I do wish to add that when people intentionally write that 'shortened' version it actually makes it difficult for some of us non-native English speakers to understand what it is that is written. I have to sound it out sometimes and that irritates me to no end.

I am a native English speaker, and I have to sound it out a lot of the time. Mostly, I never bothered to even read the posts that used that kind of style, but since I have to read them now as a mod, it's really annoying. I don't think there's much in the way of a rule that can be done though. Like I said, I used to just ignore the posts and hope that they went away

Seriously though, I don't reply to people who post in that way simply because I don't have the patience to hold a conversation with someone when I have to work out everything they say to me. I always figured the less replies they get, the more apt they are to either leave or change to real English so that they will get more replies. It's kind of a passive aggesssive approach I suppose

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:39 pm

It's a very prevalent thing online, bad grammar/spelling. Back when I first joined the e-community over a decade ago, I was already a big fan of spelling and grammar (I was always shoved in advanced English courses in grade school, and by 13 I was already an avid reader so I knew more or less what was "proper English"). I was constantly correcting people's spelling (not so much on grammar, though) and was always shouted down for it. "We're not in school."

Well, my mother always told me you don't look any dumber than when you speak improper English, so that's pretty much how I look at native English speakers who type badly. I corrected a lot of people in chat programs, and still roll my eyes at those whose ability to spell rates with a six year old's. In chat forums such as this, I type as I would an essay or paper I'd be submitting to a professor. In messengers, I'm not as anal, but it's only barely noticable (I don't capitalize every letter I'm supposed to, but punctuation, spelling, and most other rules of proper writing I still follow). I decided not to let it bother me seeing how bad other people write online; for one thing, some people I've met don't have English as their first language, so slippages often do occur and you can't really fault them for it. I don't keep track of how much "short speak" I use on here, but I assimilated a lot of the acronyms from my old gaming days and used them quite frequently (one I've had to suppress more than most on here being the "what the--" one). I try to avoid using those acronyms as much as possible, though, but when it comes to something funny, "lol" just seems appropriate.

As for straight-up l337, I hate it. Frankly, I think whoever came up with the concept of making it a verifiable e-language needs to die.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:50 pm

My sentiments too.

In as much as I detest such a form of writing, to make it a rule would be difficult to enforce because one has to still prove that the poster is just being lazy or that person just happen to have a poor command of the English language.

I cringe at the sight of it, and the SMS (Short Messaging System) provided by the cellular phones have contributed significantly to this writing nightmare. I mean, the keyboard is there for you to type the letters effectively, and not a phone pad.

Yup, DWah said it perfectly - laziness.

The best way to handle this as articulated by BS is ignoring the said poster. I really wouldn't want to bother having a conversation with someone who doesnt have the decency to give consideration that not everybody subscribes to this mutated form of the Queen's Language.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:39 pm

It will be extreemly difficult to make any sort of offcial rule that people should "spell proberly" as this site is very much international with many who have english as second or even third languages. I doubt we'll see forum rules for this case, because of this, and because it indeed can be difficult to differentiate between the lazy-spellers and the genuine struggelers on a few post-basis.

However, the intentionally misspellings, lazy-english/leetspeak/textspeak or what it is called, do annoy me greately and it annoys many other, as it is difficult for such people to read as well and it makes the poster appear more immature then they might be.
This sterotype will make it more difficult for the poster to optain answers or participate in debates as they are more often ignore then somebody who tries to spell proberly.
It is a simple matter of respect towards the people who are trying to dechiper the post and possible lend help. And I can understand (although it still annoys me) the issue in textmessages or computer games where messages have to be delivered fast, but on forums where you generally have "plenty" of time to post - I just see it as being lazy and disrespectfull to others

But as said - it will be difficult, if not impossible, to formulate rules which govern such an area, so it is better to kindly and respectfully try to nudge a person into typeing somewhat comprehensible out of respect for the fellow readers, and then yourself lead by example.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:31 am

While most of the members here do write in proper English, I do notice a considerable number of members that write in leet-speak, IM (Internet Messaging) type of chat language, or short-form language. While I don't mind those type of language being used when chatting via an online game or through an IM client like MSN Messenger, writing in this method on forums is irritating. As what everyone has mentioned, it gives the impression that the person who typed the message is either lazy, a very immature person or someone who's been chatting in that manner for a very long time. Some even wrote the message in a way that its hard to decipher and, as what Ashen had mentioned, you have to sound it out in order to understand what that person was trying to say.

However, I also agree that we can't force those who write like that to write in proper English. It just isn't nice to reprimand someone just because he/she writes in that manner. The best we can do is hope that they grow up.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:34 am

DesR85 wrote:As what everyone has mentioned, it gives the impression that the person who typed the message is either lazy, a very immature person or someone who's been chatting in that manner for a very long time.

I can't help but notice you omitted "retarded" in your otherwise thorough and precise judgement.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:38 am

Vicsun wrote:I can't help but notice you omitted "retarded" in your otherwise thorough and precise judgement.

I'm not that rude.

Also, its not nice to call someone a retard.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:15 am

Ah yes...@Magrus, you bring up a pet peeve of mine. As much as I would relish putting l337 speak and IM shorthand to the sword here on GB, it simply isn't practical from the "big picture" point of view. As the reasoning behind such restraint has already been touched upon by others in this thread, I won't echo what's already been stated.

The best way to combat such thoughtless and careless butchery of the English language here on the forums in my opinion: don't recognize l337 speak or IM shorthand when you encounter it. Ignore such a post...or, respond with the following:

"Mind translating that into English for me?"

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:52 am

DesR85 wrote:I'm not that rude. Also, its not nice to call someone a retard.

I don't think you understand; Downs and related syndromes are very serious disabilities which might impact, among other things, the ability to spell in a coherent manner.

Ashen · Post by **Ashen** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:15 am

Vicsun wrote:I don't think you understand; Downs and related syndromes are very serious disabilities which might impact, among other things, the ability to spell in a coherent manner.

You know, that is a legitimate issue. On one of the Tolkien boards where I used to be a mod, I was contacted due to one person's consistent very bad spelling by several people - the thing is she had dyslexia and it was simply very hard to write a long post without major problems with spelling and one had to simply be understanding. On the other hand, I found that majority posts with bad spelling were simply laziness or even not knowing how to and not being unable to so it's a balance really, something to be conscience of.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:48 am

Having been a teacher for a number of years, (not presently) I try to keep abreast of the trends in education. While I was teaching one line of thought was presented by some that argued we should not stress grammar and form as it "stifled creativity". Their theory was that it was no big deal how they said it, getting a student's ideas out and on paper was the most important issue. I do not know how many school systems bought into that concept and if it necessarily applies to forum posting but as that concept lends itself to laziness (as has been expressed here) I think there could be a tie in. I did not and do not ascribe to that theory. A person can have the most brilliant idea or solution to a problem, but if they cannot express it in a manner understandable to others, how useful is it? In addition, using sloppy grammar or spelling on a forum (where you cannot see the person's face or read their body language) leaves a person's comments much more vulnerable to misinterpretation. In some cases another poster may get ticked by a misinterpeted comment when there was no real intent to do so.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:11 am

[QUOTE=Philos] I did not and do not ascribe to that theory. A person can have the most brilliant idea or solution to a problem, but if they cannot express it in a manner understandable to others, how useful is it? In addition, using sloppy grammar or spelling on a forum (where you cannot see the person's face or read their body language) leaves a person's comments much more vulnerable to misinterpretation. In some cases another poster may get ticked by a misinterpeted comment when there was no real intent to do so.[/QUOTE]

Precisely! While I was doing the coursework component of my MA, I worked as a teaching assistant, which basically meant leading seminars for first year university history students. I also had to mark their written submissions..
Time and time again I'd have some tearful student to whom I'd delivered a less than stellar grade exclaim, "But my ideas were really good, and I was an A student in highschool."
I replied that if you can't effectively communicate your ideas, it really doesn't matter how good they are because they never reach their intended audience.
The latter part of that comment, however, raises another specter. My impression has long been that school standards with regard to written English have seriously slipped. I was honestly appalled by the inability of many students to properly express themselves on paper. And, these *were* kids who'd been at the top of their classes, university admittance standards required a minimum B/B+ average to even be considered.
If these were amongst the "best" (however you want to define that adjective) students...I shudder to think....

I also concur with respect to this being a medium that offers no cues in terms of body language or tone. We are so dependent on how people write things, and with no other options we are forced to base all of our impressions and interpretations upon that. When somebody is barely comprehensible, it makes misunderstanding that much more likely.

Woozaii · Post by **Woozaii** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:27 am

While i find it annoying, i do not enter a state of rage over it, wanting someone dead for using 13375p34k is overreacting in my opinion.

I think it is one of those things that only bothers you as much as you let it bother you.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:51 am

Woozaii wrote:While i find it annoying, i do not enter a state of rage over it, wanting someone dead for using 13375p34k is overreacting in my opinion.

I think it is one of those things that only bothers you as much as you let it bother you.

Wholly agree. It's annoying to see it but not enough for me to go into an uncontrollable type of rage and wanting to do wish something nasty to happen.