Timestop - spoiler (?)

joe05 · Post by **joe05** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:24 pm

Guys - I'm getting killed, literally with Timestop

It seems everyone has +weapons and the mages cast Timestop.
Melee I can handle; Timestop I have no answer for.

I'm not good with spellcasters, and with about 100 spells, I get overwhelmed in what to use = I die alot

Anyways, I:
1) went thru 12 pages of threads here at GameBanshee
2) surfed for hints/tips/walkthroughs-strategies etc

No mention on how to stop/interrupt Timestop,
Several good offensive strategies; no defensive.

Can someone tell me a solution; link me to a thread I missed; link me to a site with defensive strategies

Took me 8hrs to get thru the first map ... luckily I have lots of time(... physically disabled) ...but I hate to keep cheating and creating a rod of resurrection to bring members back ... after 10 or so attempts, I just use a rod ... I'd like to whoop them fair and square

I'm sure there must a spell to combat Timestop ... I tried all the lower spells which I thought would affect the caster; tried attack quickly etc = seems I can't win :-(
Maybe I'm targeting the wrong person

I'm betting it's my spellcasting incompetence !

Any help is greatly appeciated !

My party is Me(..Elf/Archer); Jeheira; Viconia; Mazzy; Aerie; Jan
I switched mages late in SoA, so Aerie can just now cast level 7 spells ... if that makes a difference

KaaH · Post by **KaaH** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:03 am

1. Use your Thief:
Hide in Shadows and scout ahead
-> Nuke them out of Line of sight

2. Use Sequencer Spells to
a) breach (Spell)Protections of enemies (see enemy)
b) wreck havoc (3 Sunfires come to mind) (manuel)
c) protect yourself (on helpless state)

3. Use "combined" forces (this way not all your chars take hits)
- Positions(e.g.): 1st row: Frontliner (Tank,DD); 2nd row: Support(Spellslinger, Archer); 3rd row: Healer (best use Healing Spells that don't need touch range)

4. Disrupt Caster (may be impossible if they use sequencer...) with
- Arrows
- Damage over time (spells and/or weapons can do these (e.g. poison))
- Backstab (the recipent should not recover :mischief: )
-> e.g. Jan(illusionist) -> cast mislead (out of LoS) for multiple Backstabs
if possible cast spellprotection: Divination beforehand (and wear some item that gives non-detection)

5. Drink potions to improve Wis on your caster that can cast: Wish
cast spell for some nice options (hope for a lucky draw

)

6. Use Summons
Undead are nice (immunities!!! (not time stop, but still good))
-> they soak up damage and do some
don't forget to buff them (Haste is always good)

I end here others surely have some more tricks in their bags

joe05 · Post by **joe05** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:41 am

KaaH - thanks !
I'll try the "Disrupt" and "Sequencer" methods.

Maybe the "Thief" method = though nuke'm out of Line of Sight is foreign to me

I guess you mean from off the screen ?
Most times, I run smack dab into them = so they sure as hell see me

I will have to increase Jan's hiding ability.
Have the cloak of non-detection in his backpack

KaaH · Post by **KaaH** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:15 pm

Jan is not just a thief, but a caster too...

If Hide in Shadows doesn't cut it... cast Invisible or Impr Invi or best Mislead (ok this can be seen as Cheese

); if you do like that you can search for traps at the same time

LoS or Line of Sight tactics (with spells)
Jan -> invisible -> move up to enemy
a) take note of enemy position and retreat
-> move fire support (caster) up to enemy, but out of viewing range, place Area of Effect Spell like Fireball at the border of fog of war in enemy direction

b) (less cheesy) cast Mirror Image on Jan (this way an Image is destroyed, rather than Jan taking damage from friendly fire) haste is good too -> go invi; move up caster just outside of los, backstab, (pause) -> enemy dead = ok; else use your fire support...

the letter is standart military tactic (send in commando; if they are compromized -> take out the big hammer)

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:50 pm

There is no defense against Time Stop per se. Only three creatures in the game are immune to it, and you can't make your own characters immune to it without cheating. On the other hand, there are ways to limit the damage. The best way is not to let the enemy cast it. There are many ways to disrupt spells, except in cases where the game does a scripting thing called "forced casting". Killing your enemies before they can cast any spells works great if you can pull it off (by using Time Stop yourself against them, for instance). The second way is not to be within sight of the enemy when they cast Time Stop. The cheesiest way is to run to another room when the enemy starts casting Time Stop so the spell will be wasted, but you can also use summoned monsters to draw enemy fire so your enemy's spells will be depleted before you send in your main character. Just watch out for the Death spell, which will unsummon your summoned monsters (a common hazard in Throne of Bhaal). I can't remember which summoned monsters are not affected by the Death spell, but there are a few. In general, it's a good idea to keep your party members spread out, anyway, so that area affect spells cast against one party member, for instance, will not affect all of your other party members too. I have my party "tag team" some of the more powerful monsters.

By the way, I don't remember there being any Mages on the first map who can cast Time Stop. Which map are you referring to, and have you installed any mods?

joe05 · Post by **joe05** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:01 pm

KaaH/VonDondu: appreciate the help !

I've had trouble with spells/casting since SoA = so many choices ... I seem to pick the wrong one

Thus, I waste time and let the enemies get in the first hit; so to speak.
Next game, I will be a spellcaster = not sure which, as it seems several are good ... though some seem complex ... I like to K.I.S.S. (...emphasis on Simple)
Hope this helps me unrderstand this class better = get the most out of my party
I've been melee-ing my way thru ... with a bit of spellcasting(breach etc...)

Well, I started with Saradush(sp?).
I'm doing the Keep now = looks like I'll be here awhile ... getting my butt whooped but good + those darn puzzles

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:27 pm

Possible spoilers

Saradush has 2 Time Stop mages that I know of... the one in Kaiser Jhaeri's basement has cast it on me as well as the one in the dungeons. The one in the sewers might have it too (never gave him the chance to cast or the ones guarding Gromnir for that matter:mischief: )

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:29 pm

Spellcasting is a fine art, and your own playing style will determine how you choose to use spells. You might want to search the forums for messages about spellcasting. In particular, the message threads that address the issue of Sorcerer spell selections are very useful. I learned a lot about spellcasting by reading those message threads. Or you could start a new message thread and ask us to give you a comprehensive "tutorial". I don't remember seeing a really good "tutorial" in any of the message threads here that covers all of the basic points, so you might have to read a bunch of messages and glean your own information from them.

For starters, here are some basic points:

- Learn what each spell does. Read the spell descriptions in the manual. You will probably use a limited number of spells 90% of the time, so you can become quite familiar with them.

- Learn what spell immunity means. For example, Spell Immunity: Abjuration makes spellcasters temporarily immune to spells from the school of Abjuration such as Dispel Magic and Breach. If your spells don't seem to be working against a particular monster, it might be because the monster has immunity. Monsters that have Stoneskin and Spell Immunity: Abjuration or natural immunity to Breach can be a real pain. Liches are naturally immune to every spell lower than 7th level, including Breach, and other monsters are immune to certain types of spells such as Charm and Hold. Don't waste your arsenal when a certain kind of spell or other attack won't work.

- Learn what kinds of damage various spells inflict. For example, Melf's Minute Meteors inflict fire damage. Even though a lich is immune to 3rd level spells such as Fireball, you can still hurt a lich with Melf's Minute Meteors, and that is a very useful thing to know. Liches are very susceptible to fire damage. To take another example, Glyph of Warding (the "holy hand grenade") inflicts "magic damage", so it doesn't work against monsters which have high magic resistance.

- Learn how to use protection spells and buff up your characters. Stoneskin, Mirror Image, and Spell Immunity are obvious choices, but other spells might also appeal to you. Don't neglect Priest and Druid spells like Armor of Faith (great for Minsc) or Wizard spells like Tenser's Transformation (great for Blades and other Bards) and Improved Haste (which can even be cast on summoned monsters--hasted skeleton warriors are very powerful). Shapechange is also a very interesting spell.

- Learn how to counter your enemy's protection spells. The spell descriptions will tell you which spells can be countered. Breach, Secret Word, Ruby Ray of Reversal, and the various assortment of spells like Pierce Magic and Spellstrike all have very specific uses.

- Use combinations of spells. For example, an 8th level Blade can inflict more damage than other 7th or 8th level characters (temporarily) by using Melf's Minute Meteors in combination with Offensive Spin. A multi-class Fighter/Mage or Cleric/Ranger can inflict a lot of damage by using Energy Blades in combination with Critical Strike. A Greater Malison/Glitterdust/Emotion combination will really soften up groups of enemies. Five or six Magic Missile spells can kill most monsters in Shadows of Amn, and nearly every monster is susceptible to them if you cast a few Lower Resistance spells.

Consider what will happen when you meet a group of enemies and cast the following sequence of spells. First, cast Project Image and have the image cast Spell Immunity: Divination (to keep from being detected and dispelled). Then have the image cast Improved Alacrity/Timestop/Greater Malison/Horrid Wilting x 3/Dragon's Breath and anything else you feel like casting--you've got time (especially if you use the space bar to pause the game between commands). Use Mordenkainen's Sword to mop up any survivors of your initial (unstoppable) assault. To give you some perspective, none of the dragons in Shadows of Amn can survive such an attack. When Project Image wears off, your spellbook will still be almost full, so you can do it again without resting. When you have a character like that, most melee enemies and enemy spellcasters are easy to kill, at least until you meet the most challenging opponents such as large groups of beholders or unique monsters like the Prince of Demons or enemy parties like the ones you meet on the fifth level of Watcher's Keep.

joe05 · Post by **joe05** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:13 am

VonDondu: ok

Wow, that's really helpful .. I'm printing it out !
Reading and implementing will be the problem.

I will start a thread on SoA or ToB forum.
I've read both forums, some hints/tips/FAQ and walkthrough-strategy guides.

Problem is, all say spellcasting is not for newbs

Those I read mentioned 30-40 spells should be memorized/used ?
Itching to try a Mage(...specialist ?) or a Sorceror(... read where they can only learn about 5 per level = guess that's about as simple as it gets)

Anyways, if I ever get through ToB, I'll ask for help ... with a reference to what I've read
As you noted, I'd like to concentrate on fewer spells

None of my current casters can use level 8 or 9 spells.
So, I can't experiment with them.

Maybe I'll shoot a bunch of Magic Missles or Chromatic Orbs, with Greater Mailson ?
Try the Project Image etc...
Appreciate all your help/ time you've given.

As Pellinore noted: " try to get to them asap".
That's my current strategy.
I lose some party members most evey time :-(

Still working on the Keep.

Only part of this game I'm good at is the romances; have 3 in progress(...using the Flirtpack/Ease-of-Use Mods)
Guess lucky in love; unlucky/inept in fighting ?
My weapons/equipment is getting me thru; not my strategy.
If I could utililize casting, I'm sure things would be much easier !

Thanks for your help.

KaaH · Post by **KaaH** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:11 am

when taking Sorcerer...

always (if possible) take spells that scale openly with lvl;
e.g. Fireball seems quite handy, but caps at 10th lvl (10d6) Skulltrap doesn't cap

Flame Arrow (for single target) is another example of no cap
ADHW is good (caps late, lvl 25)

just take a good look at the description... (make a plan (even if you do not follow it every lvl up) up to splvl 9), give some thought to what your spellcaster should acccomplish - depends on how many arcane caster you have in your party - if more than one most would use the Sorcerer as a "Fire Platform" with some self buffs and another arcane Caster for (group)buffs.

masteralef · Post by **masteralef** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:50 am

To add to Spineles' list-

For level 9/abilities, I usually run with Improved Alacrity. With Robe of Vecna and the Amulet of Power (both in SoA), you can cast spells significantly faster than any enemy mages. With Timestop/Improved Alacrity/various Spell Trigger and Chain Contingencies, you can easily empty all of your high level spells before the enemy gets a chance to do anything.

Of course, if you can put forward a Project Image, then you can empty your spells from the Image and still have your mage with their original spells...

joe05 · Post by **joe05** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:12 pm

VonDondu/Kaah/Spineles/Masteralef: I guess I won't need a thread

I'll copy all your info !
I have been looking up spells you have mentioned = some are above Aerie's current level
If I get to use them, I'll start practicing.

Kaah: working on your strategies
Spinles: nice to see you ... SoA was a pip ... ToB seems more melee, except for this Timestop ... I do ok till Timestop gets me ... will try the Summon technique

Went thru the god-awful 260pg .pdf manual

I see there are priest spells = guess I should utilize Viconia/Jeheira as well
I've only use lesser restoration

I'm compiling a list of spells and will go with a Sorcerer = then run the list past you guys
Not sure what they meant by: Sorcerer gets 5 per level; don't need to memorize (?) etc
When & how many higher lvl spells do I get; how long before I get those big bad spells you mention/how many do I get etc...
I'll have to make choices :-(

Thanks for all your help ... saving my sanity !
When I get thru the Keep, I should hopefully get to lvl9 with Aerie ?
Then I'll implement all the techniques you have posted = if I get those higher spells in time

In the meantime, Time(stop) to give these mages a thumping; I hope.

joe05 · Post by **joe05** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:41 am

Spineles: that helps !
Will load some in this morning.

I have party members always getting cursed or dying slowly etc, and I never could figure how to undo ... I have used dispel magic

I busted thru the keep ... whew ... near the end was a pip

Breach and Pierce Magic didn't work ... I found another to remove protection (... don't want to spoil anymore than we already have)

Was up till 4am ... working on the Nortern Fiorrest/Forrest Mir/Mountain ?
You guys have me itching to "cast"

Yes, I'll will use my Sorcerer as a "Fire Platform" ... I like offense ... will read up on Spell Trigger/Chain Contingency(... back to the .pdf manual)
I'll use Aerie + Jan for those spells I don't have.
Now with your Cleric/Druid spell help = I should be "good to go".
Then again it's me

Ready to try Jan and/or the Missle Method vs Timestop.

Thanks to everyone for your help.
Thanks to the moderator for the allowing us to expand on the original thread topic.

Spineles · Post by **Spineles** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:35 pm

No problem joe.

For everyone confused about my apparant lists, I've made both a wizard and priest spell list of spells I most frequently use. Our dear Fable likes to keep my amount of posts to a minimum

and with just reasons removed them from this thread. Find and discuss the lists [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldurs-gate-ii-throne-of-bhaal-25/magelings-starting-spell-lists-77880.html"]here[/url].

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:07 pm

fight fire with fire equip one of your mages with Vecna's Robe so your time stop will go off first giving you a huge advantage.

General tips:

chain contingency 3x horrid wilting

Keldorn's dispel magic 2x level when determining strenght 0 delay
breach, pierce magic, lower resistance
improved haste and regeneration on tanks. Regeneration is highly underrated
Try regular weapons no enchantment on tough enemies might work, korgan @ level 12-13 + imp. haste + regeneration + regular axe = dead firkraag

if your not too attached to your current party try getting a tank or 2. Korgan comes to mind I like his no nonsense bad ass mercenary attitude, but there are many good tanks with diffrent personalities to suit your taste

Personal opinion: drop viconia if she is not your love intrest. A full time cleric is useless, (some will disagree)

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:41 pm

chain contingency ignores acuity, and so you can cast in middle of combat, and it will instantly trigger next round.

when you're next to the lich,

cast on SELF, when you see enemy

sunfire
delayed blast fireball
delayed blast fireball

will usually fry them. (don't worry, casting sunfire will make you immune to fire for a round. and even though liches are immune to sunfire, they are not immune to delay blast fireball)

try casting insect swarm or creeping doom on minsc or valygar, and have him run ahead. get him close enough, and he will infect enemies.

planetars are immune to deathspell.

mbz · Post by **mbz** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:01 am

VonDondu wrote:There is no defense against Time Stop per se. Only three creatures in the game are immune to it, and you can't make your own characters immune to it without cheating. On the other hand, there are ways to limit the damage. The best way is not to let the enemy cast it. There are many ways to disrupt spells, except in cases where the game does a scripting thing called "forced casting". Killing your enemies before they can cast any spells works great if you can pull it off (by using Time Stop yourself against them, for instance). The second way is not to be within sight of the enemy when they cast Time Stop. The cheesiest way is to run to another room when the enemy starts casting Time Stop so the spell will be wasted, but you can also use summoned monsters to draw enemy fire so your enemy's spells will be depleted before you send in your main character. Just watch out for the Death spell, which will unsummon your summoned monsters (a common hazard in Throne of Bhaal). I can't remember which summoned monsters are not affected by the Death spell, but there are a few. In general, it's a good idea to keep your party members spread out, anyway, so that area affect spells cast against one party member, for instance, will not affect all of your other party members too. I have my party "tag team" some of the more powerful monsters.

By the way, I don't remember there being any Mages on the first map who can cast Time Stop. Which map are you referring to, and have you installed any mods?

As far as I remember, at least 5 creatures in TOB are immue to time spell. Get yourself improved invisibility+ spell immunity: divination+stoneskin and/or Protection from Magical weapons and you'll be doing all fine...

SPOILER:

1. End
2. Final test
3. Watcher's Keep
4. Abazigal
5. Balthezar

If this is your first time through, I'd suggest lowering the difficulty--makes hacking and slashing much more easier...

Make good use of contingencies...and also of course: traps...

Sator · Post by **Sator** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:52 pm

Ok first of all sorcerer spell selection may seem sipler but in truth its more complicated than regular mage ss. The sorc picks his spells and sticks with them, no way to unlearn (short of cheating which i despise). Google Dan Simpson and take a look at his Guides. His BG guides are really good and intelligently written (i played with a guide close by through my 1st time, just so i don't miss on anything. Just play through the area/quest first and then take a look to see if you did it right (read: as an experienced player would).

About Time Stop, you shouldn't run in many enemies able to cast it early on. But if you got to ToB already, this implies you have the infamous Cloak of Mirroring. Just have Corgan sit there like a log, enraged of course, and let whoever cast the TT waste his/her time blasting away. If by any chance you don't have it or don't want to use it (kind of pointless if you CLUA those rods every once in a while

) Just do what the posters before me suggested - haste a char (Viccy for example, she is one of my favorite NPC's and i wouldn't reccomend dropping her, since she is one of the best decoy's in the game. Her MR and godly AC can really help you out with melee later on.) and as soon as the enemy starts casting, just run away from their view. No need to go in the next room, just hide out in the fog and wait untill TT expires. I just did this with the elemental lich, since i tackled it with a lvl 10 group

equiping your main char with arrows of biting and making him/her invisible could help if you manage to get a shot in before the contigency kicks in. By the way i'm not certain that Aerie can get to lvl 9 arcane spells. Can someone clarify that?
Oh, you could always summon a nishruu/hakeashar (might have spelled that wrong), since they are immune to magic and eat spellcasters for breakfast. Never felt the need to try them out myself. I played with a Sorcerer my 1st time trough, and just did the TT cheese myself. How dumb of me

By the way, if you do get to the Improved Alacrity + Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power + Time Stop godslaying combo, be shure to set the game to Autopause when a spell is cast. Trust me on this one