tactics acid kensai, Kuroisan *SPOILER WARNING*

[rbeverjr]

Has anyone been able to beat this guy with a level 10 party? I am finding it difficult. Maybe it's just because my bed time has past. Anyway, I'd appreciate guidance, just because I like to learn good tactics.

I did do a quick search and his defenses are very strong, fairly ridiculous I'd say. The advice to do away with him included things like summon planetars. Hmmm. My low levels aren't there yet.

That sword is too cheesy. I won't use it. Ctrl-Y works fine, but that's not tactics.

[Thrifalas]

It's his defences that makes him the challenge he is. That, and his ridiculously overpowered sword. I dunno how good your economy is, but unuserfriendly has a nice tactic about burning him down with Firetooth and dispelling his protection from the energy.

I think he doesn't re-cast protection from energy, and if you're fireing regular bolts with the firetooth you get past protection from magical weapons, but you still get the fire effect... you gotta protect yourself from the acid, of cource.

A pretty brilliant idea, as ever, from our cheesemaster unuserfriendly. Here's a link to his guide if you want to check it out for yourself: The Hero's Guide to A Successful Adventure

[rbeverjr]

Thanks for the response, but if I recall correctly

Spoiler

Watcher's Keep and access to the Firetooth there doesn't happen until after you come out of the Underdark. I'm getting ambushed in Trademeet before I have money to enter chapter 2. I would consider this an interesting tactical battle latter on, but last night it was too much for my level 10 party. As I'm not interested in the twinky sword and the twinkiness of this guy (hey, there are better ways to challenge a party than use an undroppable Vecna's cloak, amulet of power, uninterruptable scrolls, etc. combined with such a broken weapon), I'll probably uninstall it. I suppose this guy is there to punish people for picking up Celestial Fury early - which is easy with 3 arcanes. I don't think I even got hit at all.

[Ian Kognitow]

Using one of the Protection from Magic scrolls on Kuroisan himself takes away a lot of his defenses. You should then just be able to beat him up. Have someone with the rod of resurrection standing by to heal your fighters if he cuts through their own protections.

[Thrifalas]

I suppose this guy is there to punish people for picking up Celestial Fury early - which is easy with 3 arcanes.

If I recall correctly, you can run to Watcher's Keep straight after Chateau Irenicus. But yeah, Firetooth is really expensive although that amount of money is easily obtainable since you get about 10.000 from every "major quest" in Athkatla.

And no, Kuroisan wasn't there to punish people for picking up Celestial Fury early. He's there for the same reason the whole mod is - because players had a way too easy time completing the vanilla game.

A particulary strong combination - arguably the strongest ever - is the dualled kensai/mage wearing all kinds of powerful things like Amulet of Power, Ring of Gaxx etc. By putting up tons of defensive spells you can become almost invulnerable while your kensai part does the whacking.

Kuroisan himself is there to show people what they've been putting the game through, so to speak. That's why he mainly is equipped with the same things you can normally get, save that overpowered sword of his.

But then again, you ought to have *some* kind of reward for killing a guy like him, right?

[rbeverjr]

I seldom play fighter-mages or fighter-thieves any more because of their invulnerability. I avoid stoneskin/ironskin except for those who will not melee. I don't use the Robe of Vecna. I typically don't use many spells that other people use in what I consider cheesy fashion. I don't use Magic Resistance offensively and wouldn't consider using Protection from Magic scrolls offensively either - at least until this guy. (Very few offensive spells or actions should be allowed without a saving throw or a miss chance in my opinion.) And even if I won fairly, I would never take that sword. So, I am not that interested in this part of Tactics.

At this point, knowing the ambush is about to happen and with a L10 party that is not prepared for it (no Protection from Magic scroll or Firetooth), this fight is very difficult, perhaps impossible. With no reward, I don't find this guy interesting enough to spend the time trying to beat him. I was just hoping someone had a simple, outside-the-box idea that would turn the tables. That Protection from Magic idea was definitely outside-the-box and may do the trick - but for the fact that I don't have one.

[Thrifalas]

Actually, using pro-magic scrolls are as inside-the-box as it gets. It's a widely known tactic and you can buy them in the adventurer's mart for a small sum.

I wouldn't recommend using it as it takes away the whole challenge though. If you're using pro-magic on the guy you might as well uninstall the mod, cause you're not facing the real Kuro.

[Ian Kognitow]

You could always just give Kuroisan CF. Or just stash it away in a chest somewhere until later.

I don't know if this would work on him and haven't tried it before, but with 3 mages, perhaps you can land a feeblemind on him?

[Pe Ell]

I've found that simple hit and run works well against him. Just run to another area and wait until his protections wears of. Then go back and start whacking. Might be cheesy (not to mention cowardly) but if you can't stand up to him in a fair fight it's a solution.

[Chanak]

@rbeverjr: I added a spoiler tag to the thread title, as spoiler information is being discussed herein. It might also be helpful to color any spoiler information within your posts black.

[Luis Antonio]

spoilerish

I've found that simple hit and run works well against him. Just run to another area and wait until his protections wears of. Then go back and start whacking. Might be cheesy (not to mention cowardly) but if you can't stand up to him in a fair fight it's a solution.

He may disappear, though, if you go away for a long while.

Anyway, try avoiding crowded places when you fetch the katanas that trigger him. Otherwise he may kill someone important. Also, think that acid protection scrolls are pretty much easy to find (and otherwise useless) around the game. I usually have someone charge on him with prot from acid and boots of speed, so that he'll keep running aroudn trying to hit him, while my mages are away from his reach. Once a few rounds go by and his defences start to go lower, have all your tanks surround him, start breaching and casting harming spells like an insane as soon as they will hit him. Area spells are sweet too, because they wont generate acidic backslash. Lightning bold works wonders to give him a big deal of damage within a small window of oportunity, and cloudkill goes well too if he's still casting spells. Getting invisible will allow you to make him focus on another player, so invis potions are a must for the tanks, not to mention healing potions.

I cant say Kuroisan is specially hard, since I've been defeating him time after time since our very second meeting (in the first meeting I thought he was just another fool). But he's easy and fair, while compared to the rest of the tactics components (see Mae'var; Bodhi; Ylich, yadda yadda).

[Ian Kognitow]

I usually have someone charge on him with prot from acid and boots of speed, so that he'll keep running aroudn trying to hit him, while my mages are away from his reach.

I seem to remember him being scripted to actually hunt down a party's weakest members first. At any rate, if the mages are at least close enough to try casting against him, if he's running around, chances are he'll get close enough to turn his attention to one of them. Also, his cloak of mirroring protects him from most magic damage - whatever a cloudkill or lightning bolt could do is quickly recovered by his sword's regeneration ability, so those spells wouldn't do much good unless they could be immediately followed up by solid melee beating - which is possible for a higher level party, but at level 10 it seems unlikely at best. Even if the fighters are protected from the acid, the sword (he's also dual-wielding a Zerth Blade) alone will easily cut them to pieces if he's not already breached and starts to land hits himself. (and even if breached, it would take several level 10 fighters to simultaneously attack him to avoid quick slaughter).

[Luis Antonio]

I seem to remember him being scripted to actually hunt down a party's weakest members first. At any rate, if the mages are at least close enough to try casting against him, if he's running around, chances are he'll get close enough to turn his attention to one of them. Also, his cloak of mirroring protects him from most magic damage - whatever a cloudkill or lightning bolt could do is quickly recovered by his sword's regeneration ability, so those spells wouldn't do much good unless they could be immediately followed up by solid melee beating - which is possible for a higher level party, but at level 10 it seems unlikely at best. Even if the fighters are protected from the acid, the sword (he's also dual-wielding a Zerth Blade) alone will easily cut them to pieces if he's not already breached and starts to land hits himself. (and even if breached, it would take several level 10 fighters to simultaneously attack him to avoid quick slaughter).

Heh, he's scripted to hunt down those with lower AC - usually mages (and sometimes kensai mages). Regarding the cloudkill and lightning bolt, tis just because those spells can help your front members to slay the guy,yes, with beating You can always boost them with heroism potions and strenght and stuff.

yeah, with level 10 fighters it will be a nasty piece of work, but with magic, how to do it? No triggers, no nuking spells... heh!