While this would be correct in a therapeutical sense, in this case the terms I used should be correct; I'm not sure about that, though. Are you a native speaker?P.S. I think you meant physically (bodily) or psychologically (mentally) not "psychically or physically". Just thought i would say that!
Unofficial patch 2.8, released, please report problems here.
Odd decisions? Hm, what exactly are you referring to?
"While sanity provides a comfortable perspective of the universe, only through its absence one will be given a glimpse at what might lie beyond.
The question remains, though - Does insight remove sanity, or will insight be given to the mad?"
The question remains, though - Does insight remove sanity, or will insight be given to the mad?"
- haydox
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:24 am
- Location: Nottingham (worst gun crime in England ring a bell
- Contact:
Yup, live right in the middle of England!Shizz wrote:Odd decisions? Hm, what exactly are you referring to?
While this would be correct in a therapeutical sense, in this case the terms I used should be correct; I'm not sure about that, though. Are you a native speaker?
As for the odd decisions, the one with the Carnival of Death stands out a lot. You can talk nicely to the vampire (one who becomes a wolf-type-thing), and gain a point of humanity (as you displayed empathy, something which makes us human), then you can tell him that he deserves to die and, basically, be really mean to him, and kill him! Its not the killing which i think should loose humanity, as it is the Camarilla law, its the way you say you are going to kill him! Its like saying to someone who has just been strapped to an electric chair..."haha, you are going to die, enjoy the pain b**ch"...it just isnt necessary!
Shizz
"You are telling him a lie in order to manipulate him into walking into mortal peril."
Possbile, mortal perl.
Did you know what was going to happen the first time you sent him there, if you even did send him there? Of course not.
Did you make him go? Nope.
Are you killing an innocent? Nope.
Does he have a choice. Yup.
"who is worth his salt "
None the less according to the post I was responding to, it was an accurate anology.
"it's an extreme example"
Well in the intrest of not having to argue about each point I was making, it was accurate, once again.
Ceritainly if extreme and generalization are the only two choices then extreme is far more productive in a debate.
"will decrease whenever you take a life, even in self-preservation; it might even be decreased when someone is seriously injured, be it psychically or physically."
I disagree completly, Huamnity allows you to feel compassion and empthy which is detrimental when making difficult choices.
When I see someone injured or killed, it increases my Humanity in Real Life.
"Soldiers will return from wars with Post-Traumatic Stress disorder, having troubles readjusting to society, often reacting violent"
Yup casue they were trained and brainwashed to react violently, doesn't mean they can't be helped if treated or if the socitey gave a sh** it would do everything to help them not deny them basic treatment, that is inhumane.
" although none of the people they killed was, in the Bloodlines meaning of the word, an innocent (or so we hope)"
Well hate to disappoint you but most are innocent as the soilders whom are brainwashed to kill without thought by their government/religion/authoritarian body.
haydox
I have really no problems with the Serial Killer quest as it stands it's your choice how to handle it and you are rewarded or penalized correctly, afaik.
"You are telling him a lie in order to manipulate him into walking into mortal peril."
Possbile, mortal perl.
Did you know what was going to happen the first time you sent him there, if you even did send him there? Of course not.
Did you make him go? Nope.
Are you killing an innocent? Nope.
Does he have a choice. Yup.
"who is worth his salt "
None the less according to the post I was responding to, it was an accurate anology.
"it's an extreme example"
Well in the intrest of not having to argue about each point I was making, it was accurate, once again.
Ceritainly if extreme and generalization are the only two choices then extreme is far more productive in a debate.
"will decrease whenever you take a life, even in self-preservation; it might even be decreased when someone is seriously injured, be it psychically or physically."
I disagree completly, Huamnity allows you to feel compassion and empthy which is detrimental when making difficult choices.
When I see someone injured or killed, it increases my Humanity in Real Life.
"Soldiers will return from wars with Post-Traumatic Stress disorder, having troubles readjusting to society, often reacting violent"
Yup casue they were trained and brainwashed to react violently, doesn't mean they can't be helped if treated or if the socitey gave a sh** it would do everything to help them not deny them basic treatment, that is inhumane.
" although none of the people they killed was, in the Bloodlines meaning of the word, an innocent (or so we hope)"
Well hate to disappoint you but most are innocent as the soilders whom are brainwashed to kill without thought by their government/religion/authoritarian body.
haydox
I have really no problems with the Serial Killer quest as it stands it's your choice how to handle it and you are rewarded or penalized correctly, afaik.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
Aaaah, alright. Why not argue a bit, it might be fun.
Nooow... as I said neither you nor the Bloodline character are braindead (well, he is, but I guess you know what I mean), so even if you don't ask Pisha (the flesh-eating monster who ate Milligan's whole crew...) whether she will eat him, you/the character can guess that she's not asking you to send him down ("because he has seen to much") to serve him a cup of tea and compliment him on escaping. So much for the not-knowing - there's simply no way anybody could be stupid enough to fail to notice that Milligan is about to meet a very ugly fate.
Do we make him go? No, of course not. Does this render us innocent? No, of course not. We are providing him with false information which he uses to decide to go back into the clinic. And yes, we are still guilty. Why? Well, let's use an extreme analogy: If you deliberately tell a bomber pilot that a hospital full of civilians is an enemy hideout, and said bomber pilot turns the hospital and all civilians in it into a smoking crater - who do you think is to blame? He, the actual "executer", or you who gave him the information upon which he based his actions?
Killing an innocent? No. Not killing. Sending to his death. And yes, he still is innocent, although he has seen to much. Again, analogies. It's not like the Masquerade is a good cause - it merely is necessary to allow vampires to continue their parasitic existence. So, let's compare kindred to a crime syndicate, maybe organized burglars. Now, someone witnesses one of their crimes and thus learns of the existence of this syndicate. Does this make him guilty of anything? Nope. Just because it is the easy thing to do to kill someone doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Does he have a choice? Of course. But he bases the choice upon the information you are supplying him with - see above.
Next stop - yes, it was an accurate analogy; but only in the word, not in the meaning of it.
Now... extreme and generalization are never the only two choices; and at least in my experience one tends to accompany the other, as extreme examples usually attach a certain emotional or ethical basic structure to a subject, making it difficult to argue rationally, as the examples are usually selected in a way that lets anyone who argues against them seem as if he was arguing against said values. Example: Your "kill Hitler" analogy. If somebody were to argue that you still should be taking a humanity hit, it would (at least to somebody not versed in properly differing between subjects) seem as if he was actually arguing in favor of Hitler and his doings, although it was only an example to illustrate a point.
Note: I'm not saying that this was your intention (I'm positive it wasn't); I just want to point out that extreme examples can be very, very dangerous to discussions.
"I disagree completly, Huamnity allows you to feel compassion and empthy which is detrimental when making difficult choices.
When I see someone injured or killed, it increases my Humanity in Real Life."
It depends - in time, it will dull you. But that was not my point. I was talking about taking a life, not watching a life be taken. And ending a life - even if in self-defense - is an act that is certain to throw you off-balance. It will not necessarily lower your compassion or mercy, of course, but it will trouble you and let you question your spiritual, moral or religious believes.
Similar things can be said about _being_ hurt (not watching someone be hurt). A wonderful example for this is Bishop Vick, who loses faith, spirit and compassion as consequence to being damned. Again, this will not necessary take place, but it happens often enough - people, who have been wronged by the world and take this as legitimation to do wrong unto others, for example; or those who never learned a different way - there's a reason that many people who beat their children have been beaten themselves as a child.
About soldiers: Of course they can be helped and therapeuted. But do you really think that violence, aggression, traumata, lack of compassion, social isolation - that all those things common to solders returning from war stem form "government killer training"? Let's take the first World War - it is an excellent example, as it was an extremely cruel war and "training" back then was marching up and down the street, digging defences and hitting straw targets - brainwashing, yes, but not the kind that you think of. On the contrary, that war was regarded as.. well, sports in the beginning. The first soldiers to fight there were more or less oblivious that there would be actual killing - and more importantly, dying. And no, training didn't change much during the war - apart from being hurried and unsufficient as the war machines cried for more.
Now, the point is: Most of the soldiers to come out of there alive had severe disorders. Some treated life with utmost respect from now on. Others developed a "battlefront mentality" and regarded violence as the ultimate solution to every social or political conflict. As with the German Freikorps: Those were soldiers coming back from the war. Back from being slaughtered like cattle, lying in hideouts while being constantly bombarded. When they came back, the "second" German revolution of that time (known as Spartacusaufstand) was ablaze. What do you think they did? march up und cry "Violence is not the answer"? no. They grabbed a gun and started to hunt down the left-wing revolutionaries - you may or may not have heard of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht who were tortured to death by Freikorps members.
So, why did I tell you this? Simple. Because a battle field can safely be considered a Combat Zone (we agree on this one, I hope?) and the men there are attempting to take your life. Thus, they are not innocent in the "Humanity Behaviour Codex" sense, as "self-preservation is a vital part of humanity" (quote Jack). And yet, those who were to survive the Hells of Verdun, the Somme battlefields or the Krim were often broken to a point that no therapy could ever have mended.
So, yes, the "Humanity" rule system is flawed - but not in the sense you perceived it to be, or at least not for me.
Oh, well. That's enough for a whole month right there. I won't argue this further, as I consider my points made, and devoted much more time to this subject than it actually deserved. Sorry for my rather flawed English, but it's 03:30 in the morning and I really can't be kicked to re-read all that - make what you want of it.
Bottomline: Fully supporting the Humanity policy of the unofficial patch. ;-)
*wanders off to bed*
Nooow... as I said neither you nor the Bloodline character are braindead (well, he is, but I guess you know what I mean), so even if you don't ask Pisha (the flesh-eating monster who ate Milligan's whole crew...) whether she will eat him, you/the character can guess that she's not asking you to send him down ("because he has seen to much") to serve him a cup of tea and compliment him on escaping. So much for the not-knowing - there's simply no way anybody could be stupid enough to fail to notice that Milligan is about to meet a very ugly fate.
Do we make him go? No, of course not. Does this render us innocent? No, of course not. We are providing him with false information which he uses to decide to go back into the clinic. And yes, we are still guilty. Why? Well, let's use an extreme analogy: If you deliberately tell a bomber pilot that a hospital full of civilians is an enemy hideout, and said bomber pilot turns the hospital and all civilians in it into a smoking crater - who do you think is to blame? He, the actual "executer", or you who gave him the information upon which he based his actions?
Killing an innocent? No. Not killing. Sending to his death. And yes, he still is innocent, although he has seen to much. Again, analogies. It's not like the Masquerade is a good cause - it merely is necessary to allow vampires to continue their parasitic existence. So, let's compare kindred to a crime syndicate, maybe organized burglars. Now, someone witnesses one of their crimes and thus learns of the existence of this syndicate. Does this make him guilty of anything? Nope. Just because it is the easy thing to do to kill someone doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Does he have a choice? Of course. But he bases the choice upon the information you are supplying him with - see above.
Next stop - yes, it was an accurate analogy; but only in the word, not in the meaning of it.
Now... extreme and generalization are never the only two choices; and at least in my experience one tends to accompany the other, as extreme examples usually attach a certain emotional or ethical basic structure to a subject, making it difficult to argue rationally, as the examples are usually selected in a way that lets anyone who argues against them seem as if he was arguing against said values. Example: Your "kill Hitler" analogy. If somebody were to argue that you still should be taking a humanity hit, it would (at least to somebody not versed in properly differing between subjects) seem as if he was actually arguing in favor of Hitler and his doings, although it was only an example to illustrate a point.
Note: I'm not saying that this was your intention (I'm positive it wasn't); I just want to point out that extreme examples can be very, very dangerous to discussions.
"I disagree completly, Huamnity allows you to feel compassion and empthy which is detrimental when making difficult choices.
When I see someone injured or killed, it increases my Humanity in Real Life."
It depends - in time, it will dull you. But that was not my point. I was talking about taking a life, not watching a life be taken. And ending a life - even if in self-defense - is an act that is certain to throw you off-balance. It will not necessarily lower your compassion or mercy, of course, but it will trouble you and let you question your spiritual, moral or religious believes.
Similar things can be said about _being_ hurt (not watching someone be hurt). A wonderful example for this is Bishop Vick, who loses faith, spirit and compassion as consequence to being damned. Again, this will not necessary take place, but it happens often enough - people, who have been wronged by the world and take this as legitimation to do wrong unto others, for example; or those who never learned a different way - there's a reason that many people who beat their children have been beaten themselves as a child.
About soldiers: Of course they can be helped and therapeuted. But do you really think that violence, aggression, traumata, lack of compassion, social isolation - that all those things common to solders returning from war stem form "government killer training"? Let's take the first World War - it is an excellent example, as it was an extremely cruel war and "training" back then was marching up and down the street, digging defences and hitting straw targets - brainwashing, yes, but not the kind that you think of. On the contrary, that war was regarded as.. well, sports in the beginning. The first soldiers to fight there were more or less oblivious that there would be actual killing - and more importantly, dying. And no, training didn't change much during the war - apart from being hurried and unsufficient as the war machines cried for more.
Now, the point is: Most of the soldiers to come out of there alive had severe disorders. Some treated life with utmost respect from now on. Others developed a "battlefront mentality" and regarded violence as the ultimate solution to every social or political conflict. As with the German Freikorps: Those were soldiers coming back from the war. Back from being slaughtered like cattle, lying in hideouts while being constantly bombarded. When they came back, the "second" German revolution of that time (known as Spartacusaufstand) was ablaze. What do you think they did? march up und cry "Violence is not the answer"? no. They grabbed a gun and started to hunt down the left-wing revolutionaries - you may or may not have heard of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht who were tortured to death by Freikorps members.
So, why did I tell you this? Simple. Because a battle field can safely be considered a Combat Zone (we agree on this one, I hope?) and the men there are attempting to take your life. Thus, they are not innocent in the "Humanity Behaviour Codex" sense, as "self-preservation is a vital part of humanity" (quote Jack). And yet, those who were to survive the Hells of Verdun, the Somme battlefields or the Krim were often broken to a point that no therapy could ever have mended.
So, yes, the "Humanity" rule system is flawed - but not in the sense you perceived it to be, or at least not for me.
Oh, well. That's enough for a whole month right there. I won't argue this further, as I consider my points made, and devoted much more time to this subject than it actually deserved. Sorry for my rather flawed English, but it's 03:30 in the morning and I really can't be kicked to re-read all that - make what you want of it.
Bottomline: Fully supporting the Humanity policy of the unofficial patch. ;-)
*wanders off to bed*
"While sanity provides a comfortable perspective of the universe, only through its absence one will be given a glimpse at what might lie beyond.
The question remains, though - Does insight remove sanity, or will insight be given to the mad?"
The question remains, though - Does insight remove sanity, or will insight be given to the mad?"
"there's simply no way anybody could be stupid enough to fail to notice that Milligan is about to meet a very ugly fate."
I guess I am the only one then as I has no idea what Pisha was, never heard of that kind a of Vamp, still really don't understand it other than what I have had VtM vets post in thread, though I consider it more ignorance (lack of knowledge) rather than stupidity (unable to learn or comprehend).
We don't need to be innocent and your right he decides to go back.
I really don't like your analogy first your talking about robbers then about murdering and comparing them?
"at least in my experience one tends to accompany the other"
"making it difficult to argue rationally,"
"If somebody were to argue that you still should be taking a humanity hit"
"n favor of Hitler and his doings,"
Lol, well I used a specific and extreme (only in the sense of catastrophic the person causes) and so now you are making a generalization?
It's the specific rules as you and others or defending that example fit, as in not equating cause and effect, principles to give out hits, which my example specifically addressed.
You can easily debate the rational of my example without sounding like you support Hitler that’s silly, it could have been any similar example I picked something quick that would be perceptible to most everyone.
"It depends - in time, it will dull you."
"It will not necessarily lower your compassion or mercy, of course, but it will trouble you and let you question your spiritual, moral or religious believes."
That happens to all people about all different experiences so yes of course it would and if a person has difficulty with an issue they could/should find someone whom they can talk to about it, i.e. like a focus or therapy group to learn how to express their thoughts, fears or whatever.
"government killer training""
I mentioned lack of treatment/help as well but H*ll yes, of course their family/environment has an effect as big as the training, but that is also a sociality issue which comes back to mostly the government again.
If the policies are to ignore social justice then of course family violence will continue. i.e politicians are putting more money into phony weapon defense and military development instead of social justice of course they are largely reasonable, that’s there dam* job to build and protect the society, not create phony fear tactics to divert attention while they line their pockets.
It all comes down to responsibility, they do it because the society lets them get away with it.
Ahh, that’s brainwashing teaching to kill without question or regard for human life and yes it was the governments that need the people to act as such.
Well I may not know or understand what an individual experienced because obviously it's impossible for anyone to experience everything, afaik.
I do know that there are no winners in war, especially not the people whom have to fight no matter what side they fight on.
As I mentioned it was an example intended to be cohesive but could have been about anyone whom killed many people wrongly, hell it could have been about Custer or any idiot whom wrongly invades a country based on lies committing torture, genocide and stealing oil.
So if your from Germany and were offended by that example well please give me another example that you would be comfortable with.
I don't blame the German people, I blame the government it was there responsibility to do the right thing, they not only hurt nonGermans they hurt good Germans as well.
Just like thousands are being currently hurt, tourtured and killed now for the sake of some dum**ss's ego, now that is a catastrophic Humanity hit.
So we still disagree as I try not to blame people whom are forced to act in a way contrary to Human Nature, i.e. to work together because I know that there are truly evil people whom feed on Humanity and have no compassion or empathy.
"So, yes, the "Humanity" rule system is flawed - but not in the sense you perceived it to be, or at least not for me."
No for me it is flawed exactly how I mentioned and you are welcome to your own perception as are others but my point is that we all are entitled so changing this forcing people to experience your perception when it obviously doesn’t fit for everyone is not correct.
There is nothing wrong with your English, fact it's probably better than mine, as you wouldn't believe the mess I make trying to type, if it wasn't for Spell Check, people would think I am speaking Martian.
I support the Unofficial patch 99.9%.
I guess I am the only one then as I has no idea what Pisha was, never heard of that kind a of Vamp, still really don't understand it other than what I have had VtM vets post in thread, though I consider it more ignorance (lack of knowledge) rather than stupidity (unable to learn or comprehend).
We don't need to be innocent and your right he decides to go back.
I really don't like your analogy first your talking about robbers then about murdering and comparing them?
"at least in my experience one tends to accompany the other"
"making it difficult to argue rationally,"
"If somebody were to argue that you still should be taking a humanity hit"
"n favor of Hitler and his doings,"
Lol, well I used a specific and extreme (only in the sense of catastrophic the person causes) and so now you are making a generalization?
It's the specific rules as you and others or defending that example fit, as in not equating cause and effect, principles to give out hits, which my example specifically addressed.
You can easily debate the rational of my example without sounding like you support Hitler that’s silly, it could have been any similar example I picked something quick that would be perceptible to most everyone.
"It depends - in time, it will dull you."
"It will not necessarily lower your compassion or mercy, of course, but it will trouble you and let you question your spiritual, moral or religious believes."
That happens to all people about all different experiences so yes of course it would and if a person has difficulty with an issue they could/should find someone whom they can talk to about it, i.e. like a focus or therapy group to learn how to express their thoughts, fears or whatever.
"government killer training""
I mentioned lack of treatment/help as well but H*ll yes, of course their family/environment has an effect as big as the training, but that is also a sociality issue which comes back to mostly the government again.
If the policies are to ignore social justice then of course family violence will continue. i.e politicians are putting more money into phony weapon defense and military development instead of social justice of course they are largely reasonable, that’s there dam* job to build and protect the society, not create phony fear tactics to divert attention while they line their pockets.
It all comes down to responsibility, they do it because the society lets them get away with it.
Ahh, that’s brainwashing teaching to kill without question or regard for human life and yes it was the governments that need the people to act as such.
Well I may not know or understand what an individual experienced because obviously it's impossible for anyone to experience everything, afaik.
I do know that there are no winners in war, especially not the people whom have to fight no matter what side they fight on.
As I mentioned it was an example intended to be cohesive but could have been about anyone whom killed many people wrongly, hell it could have been about Custer or any idiot whom wrongly invades a country based on lies committing torture, genocide and stealing oil.
So if your from Germany and were offended by that example well please give me another example that you would be comfortable with.
I don't blame the German people, I blame the government it was there responsibility to do the right thing, they not only hurt nonGermans they hurt good Germans as well.
Just like thousands are being currently hurt, tourtured and killed now for the sake of some dum**ss's ego, now that is a catastrophic Humanity hit.
So we still disagree as I try not to blame people whom are forced to act in a way contrary to Human Nature, i.e. to work together because I know that there are truly evil people whom feed on Humanity and have no compassion or empathy.
"So, yes, the "Humanity" rule system is flawed - but not in the sense you perceived it to be, or at least not for me."
No for me it is flawed exactly how I mentioned and you are welcome to your own perception as are others but my point is that we all are entitled so changing this forcing people to experience your perception when it obviously doesn’t fit for everyone is not correct.
There is nothing wrong with your English, fact it's probably better than mine, as you wouldn't believe the mess I make trying to type, if it wasn't for Spell Check, people would think I am speaking Martian.
I support the Unofficial patch 99.9%.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
- techtonik shyft
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:35 am
- Contact:
Imalia...
I don't think you use schrecknet for this quest, just enter in the code "Cleopatra". That might be your problem here...techtonik shyft wrote:I have encountered a problem with the quest for imalia...
I have set all the cameras, have conformed them through schrecknet and left seemingly unnoticed (I used obfuscate constantly!).
However, as soon as a leave the building I am told I have botched the job!
bummer...
Remember also, think Wesp mentioned this you need to start Sneaking/Obfuscate as soon as you enter the building, if I was doing the quest I would enter the level already crouched.
Wesp
Originally Posted by forgedude View Post
I know, but if you go that route, can you still get the sub-quests from Pisha? (That odious chalise is real purty...)
Yes!
You sure about that Wesp?
Pisha doesn't deal with the player if Milligan isn't sent down to her, unless you changed it or I misunderstand.
I don't know if you will see this before your big Vaction, but is it true all the women at the exlcusive Playboy island are all nude models bringing you Tequilla and Pina Coladas?
Wesp
Originally Posted by forgedude View Post
I know, but if you go that route, can you still get the sub-quests from Pisha? (That odious chalise is real purty...)
Yes!
You sure about that Wesp?
Pisha doesn't deal with the player if Milligan isn't sent down to her, unless you changed it or I misunderstand.
I don't know if you will see this before your big Vaction, but is it true all the women at the exlcusive Playboy island are all nude models bringing you Tequilla and Pina Coladas?
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
- haydox
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:24 am
- Location: Nottingham (worst gun crime in England ring a bell
- Contact:
I would say either try to find that particular .dll on the disks and copy it in, or re-install. They seem the only ways to solve the 'corrupt' error.sehk wrote:Um I waited too long at the history screen and it booted me out of the game and now it won't even load at all.. binkw32.dll is corrupt? is there anyway I can fix it or is this a reinstal job?
Note: These arent from personal experience with the game, just from using computers a LOT and fixing them for about 50% of that time!
I don't know, I wasn't there . Regarding the Pisha quest, if you indeed dominate/dementate/intimidate Milligan you will get her quests (line 171).Acleacius wrote: Pisha doesn't deal with the player if Milligan isn't sent down to her, unless you changed it or I misunderstand.
I don't know if you will see this before your big Vaction, but is it true all the women at the exlcusive Playboy island are all nude models bringing you Tequilla and Pina Coladas?
- Jhereg
- Posts: 379
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:02 pm
- Location: What the heck am I doing on *this* planet??
- Contact:
Wow! So much talk of Pisha. I have but one gripe with that task. Granted, you agree to feed a bald lie to Simon to get him back there to be eaten. You can even justify it as "protecting the masquerade". It's not like I belong to some god-forsaken "save the talk-show hosts" society or anything. He's crap and ends being literally that. I can deal. One less TV host by the end of the night - mark my words, Old Man (or in this case, Old Woman vampire-like cannibal thing).
My problem is with Patty, who is likewise a threat to the masquerade, and whom you likewise tell a bald lie to to get her to Pisha (What? Are you saying that's just me?) and who likewise becomes what she is. But for her, you get dinged a humanity point! Not fair! Not fair!
My problem is with Patty, who is likewise a threat to the masquerade, and whom you likewise tell a bald lie to to get her to Pisha (What? Are you saying that's just me?) and who likewise becomes what she is. But for her, you get dinged a humanity point! Not fair! Not fair!
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
At least with the unofficial patch you will loose a humanity point for sending down Milligan as well...Jhereg wrote: My problem is with Patty, who is likewise a threat to the masquerade, and whom you likewise tell a bald lie to to get her to Pisha (What? Are you saying that's just me?) and who likewise becomes what she is. But for her, you get dinged a humanity point! Not fair! Not fair!
- techtonik shyft
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:35 am
- Contact:
Didn't use schrecknet at all - just my bad memory.forgedude wrote:I don't think you use schrecknet for this quest, just enter in the code "Cleopatra". That might be your problem here...
However, I seemed to do everything ok and I failed.
Anyways, I went back and did it again as a different character. Thus time I was Tremere and used my dominate power of trance to ensure they didn't see me.
Same outcome. As soon as I leave the appartment block (note: not the appartment) I am told I have failed.
This time I crouched before I entered the appartment block and remained crouched as I went out....
- Jhereg
- Posts: 379
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:02 pm
- Location: What the heck am I doing on *this* planet??
- Contact:
*** Spoilers ***
1) Sneak in and out. Never stop sneaking except to type in the password behind that blind in the bedroom, and then only when the guy is in the John or the Living Room. Period.
2) Wait in the hall, with just a slit to watch the kitchen door. Wait until Tawny goes back in to the kitchen. Then sneak around the corner and up tight behind the sofa right by the wall - making sure that the guy is in the bathroom the whole time. Plant the camera and wait.
3) Crouch there unmoving until the guy sits on the sofa. When he gets up and goes back into the John, hurry into the bedroom, place the camera, and hide behind the blind next to the computer. Find a place where you can watch the door to the Living Room through a crack in the blind and wait.
4) When the guy finally goes back into the living room, sneak into the bathroom and plant the camera. Go back behind the blind and wait.
5) When the guy goes back into the John, enter the password, crouch, and wait.
6) When the guy goes back into the John again, sneak out into the living room. If Tawny is in the kitchen, sneak right by and out. If she's not in the kitchen, wait behind the sofa until she goes back into the kitchen and then sneak out, ensuring that the guy is in the John when you do.
7) You're done.
You need a lot of patience and guts for this one. Holding still and silent while in plain sight for so long is a bit nerve-wracking. Naturally, the higher your sneak the better, but it should be at least six or seven by then.
This would planting the camera in Tawny Sessions, right? You cannot use magic on them to try to sneak by, although Obfuscate might be allowed. The rule is that they can't see you, and can't even suspect vaguely that you're there. If they do, they'll find the cameras. The only reliable way AFAIK is:techtonik shyft wrote:Didn't use schrecknet at all - just my bad memory.
However, I seemed to do everything ok and I failed.
Anyways, I went back and did it again as a different character. Thus time I was Tremere and used my dominate power of trance to ensure they didn't see me.
Same outcome. As soon as I leave the appartment block (note: not the appartment) I am told I have failed.
This time I crouched before I entered the appartment block and remained crouched as I went out....
1) Sneak in and out. Never stop sneaking except to type in the password behind that blind in the bedroom, and then only when the guy is in the John or the Living Room. Period.
2) Wait in the hall, with just a slit to watch the kitchen door. Wait until Tawny goes back in to the kitchen. Then sneak around the corner and up tight behind the sofa right by the wall - making sure that the guy is in the bathroom the whole time. Plant the camera and wait.
3) Crouch there unmoving until the guy sits on the sofa. When he gets up and goes back into the John, hurry into the bedroom, place the camera, and hide behind the blind next to the computer. Find a place where you can watch the door to the Living Room through a crack in the blind and wait.
4) When the guy finally goes back into the living room, sneak into the bathroom and plant the camera. Go back behind the blind and wait.
5) When the guy goes back into the John, enter the password, crouch, and wait.
6) When the guy goes back into the John again, sneak out into the living room. If Tawny is in the kitchen, sneak right by and out. If she's not in the kitchen, wait behind the sofa until she goes back into the kitchen and then sneak out, ensuring that the guy is in the John when you do.
7) You're done.
You need a lot of patience and guts for this one. Holding still and silent while in plain sight for so long is a bit nerve-wracking. Naturally, the higher your sneak the better, but it should be at least six or seven by then.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
- techtonik shyft
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Cheers, though I have succeeded in the past.
I just think it a bit strange that vampiric disciplines can't help out... particularly obfuscate.
I'm not sure why they would suspect anything after being dominated, though. They are, afterall, in a trance. Surely when in that state, they are not aware of anything?!
Apart from that annoying niggle, everythings fine!
I just think it a bit strange that vampiric disciplines can't help out... particularly obfuscate.
I'm not sure why they would suspect anything after being dominated, though. They are, afterall, in a trance. Surely when in that state, they are not aware of anything?!
Apart from that annoying niggle, everythings fine!
I've done it with obfuscate...
..at level 5. No problems- you just have to remember that the timer runs while you do stuff on the computer.techtonik shyft wrote:Cheers, though I have succeeded in the past.
I just think it a bit strange that vampiric disciplines can't help out... particularly obfuscate.
I'm not sure why they would suspect anything after being dominated, though. They are, afterall, in a trance. Surely when in that state, they are not aware of anything?!
Apart from that annoying niggle, everythings fine!