The XP-Free BGII Challenge (lots of spoilers inside)

[SSoG]

The XP-Free Adventures of Tyro, the Halfling Bounty Hunter.

The goal: to complete Baldur’s Gate: Shadows of Amn without getting a single point of experience that isn’t absolutely, positively 100% mandatory.

The character: In order to avoid unnecessary experience, I’m going to have to avoid unnecessary combat. That means I’m going to need some sort of means of rendering myself undetectable. This means either Thief/Monk/Ranger for Hide in Shadows, or Mage/Sorcerer for Invisibility. I’m ruling out Mage immediately, because I can’t scribe scrolls without getting some disastrous experience totals. My secondary consideration has to be the ability to beat several difficult encounters with an extremely underpowered character. I’m ruling out the Monk here because, while the increased speed would be really handy, I don’t think he’s going to be capable of defeating some plot-required battles while at a relatively low level. It might wind up being a mistake, but we’ll see. I’m also eliminating the Beastmaster and Stalker, because they suck. Sorry, they just do.

That leaves me with an Archer, a Sorcerer, or a Thief (or thief kit). In the end, I’m going with the Thief because the pickpocket skill will be hugely useful (especially in chapter 2- more on that later), and Traps are a great means of disposing of enemies I have no business being able to beat. One note- I cannot disarm traps or open locks (pesky experience again), so I will be focusing on the skills Pick Pockets (augmented by potions of master thievery), Hide in Shadows, Move Silently, Set Traps, and if I have enough points late in the game, Find Traps (I can’t disarm them, but I can still find them) and Detect Illusions (handy ability to have).

Since I have decided Traps will be my cheesy method of disposing of high-level enemies, I will be a Bounty Hunter to double my trap usage. Finally, a name… I went with Tyro. It just seemed appropriate.

Chapter 1:

Irenicus’ dungeon has never been so simple before. After Imoen joined up, I left her by the cages while Tyro grabbed a long sword, buckler, and Studded Leather armor (which he left unequipped to avoid a Hide in Shadows penalty). Minsc and Jahiera stayed cage, lest they try to reward me for freeing them with some dratted XP. Tyro then hid in shadows and snuck past the Mephit Machine. I ignored Ataaq’s request for an interview, slipped past the pack of goblins, and picked the pocket of the Golem to get myself the Sewer Key without having to bother with any pesky Exp-giving quests.

Armed with the Sewer key, I snuck past the pack of Goblins again and into the Otyugh room. I opened the far door and tried to sneak past the goblins in the next corridor, but ran into a problem. The first two goblins were in the middle of the corridor, and I couldn’t slip past them. I backed up so that only those two goblins were on my screen (not the third one), and then revealed myself to them. As they charged towards me, I slipped out of the corridor and towards the far right side of the Otyugh room. The otyugh saw me, but I managed to get into the corner before anyone came back into my view. Once out of sight, I hid in shadows again and headed to the left side of the room. Sure enough, both pesky goblins and the Otyugh all trundled into the far right corner and snuffed around, trying to find me, unaware that I was already long gone.

I went through the corridor, past the Dryads (again, ignoring their request for an interview), and into Irenicus’ love’s room. Now I was facing another puzzle- I knew of the traps in the room, and knew they were powerful enough to kill me if I charged through. I decided now would be a good time to bring Imoen into play. Her Hide in Shadows was pretty pathetic, but was still sufficient to sneak her past all of the enemies I had bypassed as long as I took it one leg at a time, assuming that even if I could get her hidden in the first place, she’d fail a check the first chance she got. After some patience, I caught her up to Tyro. She then stoneskinned up so she could absorb the traps, and she walked over and grabbed the teleporter key. At that point, I just made a mad dash for the teleporter, not even bothering trying to sneak past the goblins guarding it.

Once I was on level two, I was approached by Yoshimo, who requested to join my group. Since he was an accomplished thief capable of hiding himself more easily than Imoen, I granted his request. I tried sneaking past the Mephit Generators, but to my dismay the doors were magically sealed and wouldn’t open until those imps went down. I equipped Imoen with the long sword and buckler and gave Tyro Yoshimo’s short bow. The 4 mephit generators went down in a hurry, but unfortunately I was forced to take 20,000 XP (5,000 per generator). This made me very sad.

Mephit Generators destroyed, the rest of the dungeon was a snap. I just hid Yoshimo and Tyro, left Imoen in the generator room, and walked the rest of the way out (making sure Yoshimo sprung the trap on the bridge, just in case). Once I got to the exit, I dropped Imoen from my party and went up the ramp. For my efforts, I was punished with 34,500 quest experience… but I suppose it was a small price to pay for my freedom.

Chapter 2 (or, “If anyone ever told you crime doesn’t pay… they lied”).

Ah, good old Chapter 2- the easiest chapter in the entire game. I went to the slums and listened to Gaelen babble on, and then went to the docks to make my fortune. I went straight to Mae’Var’s guildhall. Once inside, I scavenged around in any containers that were either unlocked or bashable by Yoshimo. I gathered up all the odds and ends I collected, and found I had just enough to afford a potion of master thievery. At this point, chapter 2 is basically over.

I imbibed the potion, then stole a second from the merchant. I imbibed that, and then stole a third and imbibed that one for good measure. After that, I robbed the merchant of anything that looked remotely interesting to me- potions of invisibility, speed, and master thievery, mostly. Then I stole his Leather Armor +3, his Nymph’s Cloak, and his Rogue Stone. Selling those back to him netted me 4500 gold. Stealing them and selling them again got me another 4500. I settled in and burned about a half hour, until I had 200,000 gold. Then it was a quick trip to Rybald to grab a Girdle of Giant Strength (for bashing locks), as well as some Bracers AC3, a Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Protection +1, and a ring of Air Control. I also pickpocketed a ring of regeneration from Rybald, and bought a Mercykiller ring from Diedre (I only put 80% into my Set Traps skill on the assumption that I would be purchasing this ring, anyway). Since I still had money to burn, I bought myself a Sword of the Balduran (I’ll rarely use it, but it looks pretty and the 10% magic resistance might be handy), and I outfitted Yoshimo (Bracers AC4, Dakkon’s Zerth Blade).

That left me with one last piece of gear to get, and no hard plans yet as to how I’d get it. I figure that the cloak of non-detection that Amon is wearing is going to be a near-mandatory piece of gear. I considered making one exception to my no-unnecessary-XP rule, but decided to try something sneaky, first.

First thing I tried was removing Yoshimo from my party, hostiling the adventurers, and trying to coerce the (now unpartied) Yoshimo to attack them. No dice. Plan #2 was to set a bunch of traps from Yoshimo, then kick him out of the party and go hostile on the adventurers. Bingo! Yoshimo’s traps triggered and took out Amon, but since he wasn’t in my party, I didn’t get a single point of experience! I grabbed the cloak of non-detection, used the Improved Invisibility on my Ring of Air Control, and high-tailed it out of there. I went back to the Copper Coronet to pick up Yoshimo again (I suspect he’s going to prove VERY useful in this quest), and while I was there, I grabbed the Sling of Everard from the merchant to give me a ranged weapon, should I ever need one.

Valen and Brus have both sent me invitations to meet with their bosses. All that’s left to do in Chapter 2 is to figure out what other gear I can manage to get without accidentally getting any XP, and then decide whose side to take in the upcoming guild war.

Anyway, I’ll probably go back and use the trap trick again to net myself a Sandman ring from Amon’s thief companion (you can never have too many sources of invisibility). I’m also going to try to pick up Jan, just for the extra trapsetter. I’d do Nalia, but I have no intention of freeing her keep and I figure she’ll just get pissed and leave me eventually. Are there any other suggestions for XP-free gear I could possibly use? Party recommendations? Suggestions for which side I should take in the upcoming guild war (I’m leaning towards joining the vampires, since I’ve never tried it before, and because I think I might be able to get some boots of speed off of Renal- the ones in the Astral Prison are entirely out of the question, and I don’t want to wait until I get to spellhold).

Thanks for your time, and in advance for your suggestions.

[Ian Kognitow]

Snerk. Interesting idea. Off-hand I can think of a few things that you'd probably benefit from:
1) pick-pocket the ring of ram
2) Do get Jan. Actually, I think you could have done better as a mage/thief yourself. You don't have to memorize scrolls (and get stinky XP), just read them.
3) Get daystar. I seem to remember that the chest it's in is open (just blow by the lich), but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, if I'm right, it will be quite useful against the necessary vampire covens.
4) Get both rods of resurrection. Again, you don't have to fight Mekrath to get it, just take it and run away.
4) Use the thieving potion boost to steal every worthwhile potion off Roger the Fence.
5) Get Arrows of Dispelling
6) Pick up Viconia. Her ability to control undead rather than destroy them may get you out of some jams, and XP. Also, sanctuary will pretty much let her stay at your side almost all the time. I don't think that you get experience just for cutting her down (again, can't remember for sure). But since she's not in your party quite yet, just try to draw the fire of the guards while she kills them.

[Bayle]

Mandatory? You mean that you cant kill people or do quests that is not important for the main quest line?

[Rabain]

You should try this mod:

Ding0 Experience Fixer

It can reduce the XP for skills, quests or kills to 10% of what it should be.

So even when you have to take XP it won't be much!

[Rav]

Ooh, interesting. Tell us when you inadvertently level up, I'd be curious to know what kind of experience you'd be at at certain points in the game.

[VonDondu]

I'm curious whose side you will join in the guild war. It seems like the quests Bodhi gives you are a little bit easier than the quests that Aran gives you. Finishing either quest with a lone low-level Thief sounds like a challenge. I know from experience that a lone 12th Level Fighter can easily solo Chapter Three, so maybe you can find a way to do it with the minimum amount of work and experience.

Siding with Bodhi will let you avoid the initial encounter at Brynnlaw that occurs if you side with the Shadow Thieves. I suppose the next round of unavoidable fights will occur in Spellhold when you have to kill Dace and take the Director's "Test". I suppose you will use the Underdark Portal instead of taking the side trip to the underwater city--if you're using the Cloak of Non-Detection, I don't suppose there's any point in getting the Cloak of Mirroring. It might have been useful when you get to the Fear Test in Hell, but it looks like you'll be taking the evil path.

In Chapter Six, I suppose you can ask for all the help you can get, but my experience has been that everyone gets level drained and dies, and the battle on the second floor won't be easy. Suldanessellar shouldn't be too hard if you sneak around and quickly release the Avatar of Rillifane. I assume you'll bribe the black dragon instead of fighting him. Then it's on to the Tree of Life and Hell, and you're done.

Sounds like a short game to me, but not easy.

[SSoG]

Snerk. Interesting idea. Off-hand I can think of a few things that you'd probably benefit from:
1) pick-pocket the ring of ram
2) Do get Jan. Actually, I think you could have done better as a mage/thief yourself. You don't have to memorize scrolls (and get stinky XP), just read them.
3) Get daystar. I seem to remember that the chest it's in is open (just blow by the lich), but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, if I'm right, it will be quite useful against the necessary vampire covens.
4) Get both rods of resurrection. Again, you don't have to fight Mekrath to get it, just take it and run away.
4) Use the thieving potion boost to steal every worthwhile potion off Roger the Fence.
5) Get Arrows of Dispelling
6) Pick up Viconia. Her ability to control undead rather than destroy them may get you out of some jams, and XP. Also, sanctuary will pretty much let her stay at your side almost all the time. I don't think that you get experience just for cutting her down (again, can't remember for sure). But since she's not in your party quite yet, just try to draw the fire of the guards while she kills them.

1) That's a great idea! I was thinking "I can't get the ring of the ram because I'd have to go into the Planar Sphere for it", but I just realized I can steal it off of him in the Government district. Thanks!
5) Where are the arrows of dispelling?
6) Good idea on Viconia, I'll give it a try.

Mandatory? You mean that you cant kill people or do quests that is not important for the main quest line?

The goal is to not get a single point of experience at all during the entire game. Obviously that's impossible, because there are some things that I *HAVE* to do to advance that "reward" me with XP (such as destroying the mephit generators or escaping the dungeon), but if there's absolutely any possible way for me to beat the game WITHOUT getting certain experience, then I'm going to do it (for instance, I pickpocketed the sewer key from the sewer golem rather than activating it and getting "rewarded" with quest XP).

Also, I can *START* any quest, I just cannot get to a point where I'm rewarded with XP. For instance, I could accept Nalia's quest to clear her keep, but I couldn't lower the drawbridge, make the dog stew, or kill any monsters once I got there. I could try making a Flail of Ages +2, too, but I think I might get XP for that.

Ooh, interesting. Tell us when you inadvertently level up, I'd be curious to know what kind of experience you'd be at at certain points in the game.

I leveled up once when I left Irenicus' dungeon, but that's it so far.

[SSoG]

I'm curious whose side you will join in the guild war. It seems like the quests Bodhi gives you are a little bit easier than the quests that Aran gives you. Finishing either quest with a lone low-level Thief sounds like a challenge. I know from experience that a lone 12th Level Fighter can easily solo Chapter Three, so maybe you can find a way to do it with the minimum amount of work and experience.

I've never done Bhodi's quest, but according to the info here, there's a pair of boots of speed on Renal, so I'll probably try Bodhi's and hope that I'm forced to kill Renal in the process.

Siding with Bodhi will let you avoid the initial encounter at Brynnlaw that occurs if you side with the Shadow Thieves. I suppose the next round of unavoidable fights will occur in Spellhold when you have to kill Dace and take the Director's "Test". I suppose you will use the Underdark Portal instead of taking the side trip to the underwater city--if you're using the Cloak of Non-Detection, I don't suppose there's any point in getting the Cloak of Mirroring. It might have been useful when you get to the Fear Test in Hell, but it looks like you'll be taking the evil path.

In Chapter Six, I suppose you can ask for all the help you can get, but my experience has been that everyone gets level drained and dies, and the battle on the second floor won't be easy. Suldanessellar shouldn't be too hard if you sneak around and quickly release the Avatar of Rillifane. I assume you'll bribe the black dragon instead of fighting him. Then it's on to the Tree of Life and Hell, and you're done.

Sounds like a short game to me, but not easy.

I was planning on burning some "Protection from Undead" scrolls on the more powerful of my friends in Chapter 6. The problem with doing Bhodi's path is that I doubt I'll be able to get the Shadow Thieves to help in Chapter Six, so it'll just be Drizzt and the Paladins... but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Also, off topic, but weren't you registered on BGDungeon back in the day?

[VonDondu]

I've never done Bhodi's quest, but according to the info here, there's a pair of boots of speed on Renal, so I'll probably try Bodhi's and hope that I'm forced to kill Renal in the process.

I can't think of any way to get Renal's Boots of Speed. If you try to kill him before you choose a side in the guild war, I think Arkanis Gath comes along to insta-kill you. Once you join Bodhi, I think Renal is gone. Technically, he's still on the old map of the Shadow Thief Guildhall, but you can't access that map anymore. Instead, when you enter the guildhall to do Bodhi's missions, it will be a map with hostile thieves instead of friendly thieves.

If you really want some Boots of Speed, you can get some in Spellhold. You have to find 15 mithril tokens (not too hard) and put them in the contraption that is guarded by three clay golems. Unfortunately, I think you have to kill the clay golems to unlock the door, but I'm not sure.

To answer your last question, I was a member of BGDungeon Tavern back in the day. When it went offline, I joined this message board.

[SSoG]

I can't think of any way to get Renal's Boots of Speed. If you try to kill him before you choose a side in the guild war, I think Arkanis Gath comes along to insta-kill you. Once you join Bodhi, I think Renal is gone. Technically, he's still on the old map of the Shadow Thief Guildhall, but you can't access that map anymore. Instead, when you enter the guildhall to do Bodhi's missions, it will be a map with hostile thieves instead of friendly thieves.

If you really want some Boots of Speed, you can get some in Spellhold. You have to find 15 mithril tokens (not too hard) and put them in the contraption that is guarded by three clay golems. Unfortunately, I think you have to kill the clay golems to unlock the door, but I'm not sure.

To answer your last question, I was a member of BGDungeon Tavern back in the day. When it went offline, I joined this message board.

I know about the ones in Spellhold, I was hoping to get a second pair to take with me if I was planning on bringing along Yoshimo. They're extremely handy for if Hide in Shadows fails at an inopportune time, since they allow you to dash out of sight and hide again.

Also, just checking. I thought I remembered you from BGD, but I figured it had been so long I might have just been losing my mind.:laugh:

[VonDondu]

I wouldn't take Yoshimo to Spellhold.

What was your user name at BGDungeon? Unfortunately, there were so many people there, I don't know if I could remember everyone's name.

[wise grimwald]

I know about the ones in Spellhold, I was hoping to get a second pair to take with me if I was planning on bringing along Yoshimo. They're extremely handy for if Hide in Shadows fails at an inopportune time, since they allow you to dash out of sight and hide again.

Also, just checking. I thought I remembered you from BGD, but I figured it had been so long I might have just been losing my mind.:laugh:

You could of course bring both the boots of speed and Algernon's cloak in from BGI. You would find the cloak particularly useful in reducing experience as you can get others to kill those that have to be killed. That is how I managed to finish BGI without killing anyone and the same principal could be used in BGII. I am planning on doing much the same as you with my Halfling Fighter thief that I used in BGI as soon as I know a bit more about BGII.

[kmonster]

AFAIK Bodhi refuses thieves the option to work for her in an unmodded game.

[Onkel Bob]

Just so you know it: You will have to get some experience if you want Jan in your party. There's a reward for helping him with the ... customs inspector? Is that what he is? Something like it at least.

[fable]

Just so you know it: You will have to get some experience if you want Jan in your party. There's a reward for helping him with the ... customs inspector? Is that what he is? Something like it at least.

A guard of some sort, in the government district. You should find Jan in the open plaza area in the center. His conversational skills alone, there, will provide good reason to hire him.

[Ian Kognitow]

1) That's a great idea! I was thinking "I can't get the ring of the ram because I'd have to go into the Planar Sphere for it", but I just realized I can steal it off of him in the Government district. Thanks!
5) Where are the arrows of dispelling?

You get some from the fletcher in Waukeen's.

Oh - One more thing, assuming--especially for this game--that you're not averse to some cheese. Since you didn't mention it specifically, be sure to pick up the protection from magic scrolls from Ribald to use on required mages. Make Irenicus cry in a bubble of nullifying haze when you finally meet him. He'll be pissed to get beat by such an inexperienced Jonny come-lately.

[SSoG]

I wouldn't take Yoshimo to Spellhold.

What was your user name at BGDungeon? Unfortunately, there were so many people there, I don't know if I could remember everyone's name.

I know what happens if I take Yoshi to Spellhold. I'm not too worried- if it turns out that having him there will get me incidental XP, then I'll dump him before I reach that point, and if it turns out that it doesn't, well I'll just strip him of anything useful and use him for as long as possible.

My s/n was Warlock (or Neowarlock if you made it to the Elysium). I wouldn't expect you to remember me, I just think it's neat how every so often a former BGDer shows up in some unexpected places. I've either kept in touch with or had a run-in in the past year with BraveSirRobin, Boone, Sin/Sceaduo, Rodan, Tarencil, Falconblade, Guildrunner, Fiona, The Mage, and now you. It's a small internet, it seems. I wouldn't have expected anyone to still be playing this little old game.

You get some from the fletcher in Waukeen's.

Oh - One more thing, assuming--especially for this game--that you're not averse to some cheese. Since you didn't mention it specifically, be sure to pick up the protection from magic scrolls from Ribald to use on required mages. Make Irenicus cry in a bubble of nullifying haze when you finally meet him. He'll be pissed to get beat by such an inexperienced Jonny come-lately.

Oh yes, I'll be using cheese of all varieties. Gouda, Swiss, Provalone, Brie, Rambol, Fromage D'affinois, Huntsman, Parrano, aged, unaged, extra-aged... if there's one thing I know, it's my cheese. I've already got some Prot from Undead and Prot from Magic scrolls safely tucked away, and a Vhailor's helm in case I need to recycle them a couple of times.

First we try it no-cheese, but if that doesn't work I certainly do not have any lactose intolerances.

[VonDondu]

I know what happens if I take Yoshi to Spellhold. I'm not too worried- if it turns out that having him there will get me incidental XP, then I'll dump him before I reach that point, and if it turns out that it doesn't, well I'll just strip him of anything useful and use him for as long as possible.

I don't know if you can go straight to the Pirate Lord to get into Spellhold when you first get to Brynnlaw (I'm not used to finding ways to avoid experience), but that's what I would try to do. So I don't know if there's anything for Yoshimo to do once you get there.

My s/n was Warlock (or Neowarlock if you made it to the Elysium). I wouldn't expect you to remember me, I just think it's neat how every so often a former BGDer shows up in some unexpected places. I've either kept in touch with or had a run-in in the past year with BraveSirRobin, Boone, Sin/Sceaduo, Rodan, Tarencil, Falconblade, Guildrunner, Fiona, The Mage, and now you. It's a small internet, it seems. I wouldn't have expected anyone to still be playing this little old game.

I do remember you and all the other people you mentioned, as well as lots of other people. I'm surprised you don't remember me more as a member of the Elysium than as a member of BGDungeon Tavern since the former was a smaller, more tightly knit online community than the latter, but whatever. You're obviously getting old, just like the "old man" BSR you used to rib.

[SSoG]

I don't know if you can go straight to the Pirate Lord to get into Spellhold when you first get to Brynnlaw (I'm not used to finding ways to avoid experience), but that's what I would try to do. So I don't know if there's anything for Yoshimo to do once you get there.

I seem to recall something about being able to get an audience with the Pirate Lord without any troubles, and if you had Minsc talk to him he'd certify your party insane and let you into the asylum. Luckily for me, Minsc is sitting around twiddling his thumbs at the Copper Coronet (I didn't let him out of his cage, he must have broken free on his own). I'm planning on picking him up when I head for Spellhold and using him as my ticket inside, then showing him that righteous boot he's always prattling on about.

Of course, it's been years since I've played the game, so I'm mostly just playing it by ear and reloading if I stumble across a long-forgotten XP source, but that's the initial plan at the moment.

I do remember you and all the other people you mentioned, as well as lots of other people. I'm surprised you don't remember me more as a member of the Elysium than as a member of BGDungeon Tavern since the former was a smaller, more tightly knit online community than the latter, but whatever. You're obviously getting old, just like the "old man" BSR you used to rib.

I did recall that you were at the Elysium, but I have to admit, I've belonged to so many different BGD-offshoot forums over the years that I find it hard to remember for certain who else I remember from where, so I tend to err on the side of caution and just refer back to BGD.:laugh:

[VonDondu]

I seem to recall something about being able to get an audience with the Pirate Lord without any troubles, and if you had Minsc talk to him he'd certify your party insane and let you into the asylum. Luckily for me, Minsc is sitting around twiddling his thumbs at the Copper Coronet (I didn't let him out of his cage, he must have broken free on his own). I'm planning on picking him up when I head for Spellhold and using him as my ticket inside, then showing him that righteous boot he's always prattling on about.

I think the Pirate Lord will send your character to Spellhold if you tell him that you believe you're the offspring of Bhaal. So I don't think you need to have Minsc in your party (although his dialogue with the Pirare Lord is very funny),