Military Service

[Cartell]

I am thinking about joining the marines after high school and I was wondering if we have any military guys of any branch who would like to offer thier oppinions, suggestions, or thoughts.

[Sean The Owner]

I am thinking about joining the marines after high school and I was wondering if we have any military guys of any branch who would like to offer thier oppinions, suggestions, or thoughts.

im not in the military but i have a few friends who are, and they always seemed to want to be in the military, and they were so enthusiastic about it that even though it wasnt really what they expected it to be they still love it.

personally, i dont like the military, but i have to say, if youre interested in it, give it a try atleast, and if you find out you dont like it, hey, it was free(actually i think they pay for training too) but ya, go for it, you might not like the training, but after that, when you choose what kind of specialty you want to be in, itll be a blast! i hope you are physically fit though, especially if youre in america since the american marines are alot tougher than the canadian navy training

i wish you luck, and hope you have good times and experiences if you go through with it

[Zelgadis]

I'm in the Army. I don't know enough about you to recomend it or not, but i will tell you i don't regret joining, though I won't be reenlisting.

[Demortis]

Well, from what I know, the military isnt what it used to be. So my suggestion would be to go in for the min years, and get them to pay for college :mischief:

[Magrus]

I'm not in the military, but I am curious as to the why of you are considering joining the armed forces? I am assuming from your saying "marines" and your post in the anatomy thread, it would be the US armed forces.

The reason I ask is that out of all of the people I know who are in the armed forces of this country, or those I know who know people in the armed forces they all report back basically the same thing. They under no circumstances wish to be redeployed, can't stand Bush, or the government and cannot believe the war is still going on. The best report I heard of so far from someone recently was a guy who is a missile specialist, who's thoughts were "Well, I can't hate Bush, he pays my salary, but the guys an idiot, and this war is whack. Everyone is dying for oil over there." I am assuming that his thoughts would be different if he wasn't cooped up on a base dealing with computers and such rather than outside with a gun in his hand though.

[VonDondu]

Considering the state our military is in today and the fact that it's only going to get worse since President Bush is determined to "stay the course" and possibly get us into at least one more war before he's done, your recruiter might offer even better incentives in the future. I suggest that you hold out until you get the best possible offer.

My congresswoman has done a lot of work personally with the women of Iraq, and in the brief conversations I've had with her, she has said that she would like to hear from more soldiers. I know that my suggestion might sound really bizarre and off the wall, but you might consider contacting your congressional before or after you join just to start an exchange of ideas. Your representative is supposed to represent you, and as a soldier and later, as a veteran, you should do all you can to make sure you're represented fairly. The Bush administration has really given soldiers and veterans the shaft even though they claim that they "support the troops". Talking to your congressman or woman might help. Even if it doesn't help, he or she still might like to hear from you, especially if he or she really does appreciate your military service. If you serve your country, you certainly deserve some recognition.

[Magrus]

That too, I work with a lot of Vietnam Veterans on a daily basis. They are ALL jaded with the treatment they got when coming home, over the war in general and over the system. One of them, the guy who now works 10 hours a week or so doing minor maintenance, did really well after he got home. He moved to California, owned a number of Condo buildings, as well as two businesses. He started a housing development project, and then later pulled out, yada yada yada. He has money, and did his thing, and yet he still says "I'll never forget how I was treated after I came home from that war." Neither with the way the government promised something and then never followed through, or the treatment from the public.

The two wars are different, as are the times. However, as I said above, every single person whom I talked to about it, who has been deployed and come home after dealing with the Iraq or Afghanistan situations has been upset over it. Every single one of them, and the best version I got out of it was that they weren't TOO pissed, as they were still getting paid to sit at a computer. This guy doesn't get fired on a street or have to run for his life, and I think that makes all the difference there. He is high rank, gets paid well and is relatively safe unless someone actually attacks this country.

[Philos]

Every service has its good and bad points. If you plan on enlisting which it sounds like from your post I would actually recommend the Air Force. The Air Force has many technical fields that will benefit you after your hitch is up. Aircraft maintenance, for example, is a well paying job at just about any location around the country. The Air Force may have to deploy overseas but the deployment is usually short timewise. The Marines do have many technical fields available but there is also a strong chance you could end up as a "grunt" (infantry man) and not gain a lot of skills that can benefit you post military. Most any Air Force military occupational specialty (MOS) will translate into a job afterwards. Plus, while you are in the military will usually assist with college and then afterwards using the GI Bill.

And no, I am not a recruiter. :laugh: I did serve in the Navy and have had friends in every other branch of the service (American that is). I won't go into the politics of the current administration. But I will say that the military can give you a lot if you plan wisely. Whatever you do, make sure the recruiter "Puts It In Writing." If you sign a contract you are commited, but so is the government. If the recruiter promises you something and it isn't written than you may (or may not) get what you are promised.

[Cartell]

Thank you to all who offered opinions, but I am really looking for people who are or have served in the Armed forces. For those of you in the Armed forces who answered, thanks

[Philos]

@Cartell,

Although I was in the US Navy, a good deal of my time was spent with the Marines and I have many friends from their ranks. I enjoyed my time in the Navy, I would still recommend the Air Force. Good wishes on your decision.

[thantor3]

I was in the Army during the Carter and Regan years, working mainly as the NCOIC of the base veterinary hospital. I was deployed briefly to the Navy base in San Diego (since the Navy apparently did not have veterinary technicians) as part of their research team, and later worked in a VA hospital. I mention this because it illustrates that I interacted with or served with active duty and veterans from many branches of the military and who had seen action in several different wars.

The decision to go into the military is not one to be made lightly. It will change you in ways you cannot imagine and open you up to the extremes of the human condition in ways you did not think were possible. In other words, the you who goes into the military will not be the you who comes out. Since much of this experience is not under your control, it's a crap shoot whether you will like the new you.

One of the things I think young men in particular are unprepared for is that killing another human being is not the adventure one experiences in video games or at the movie theater. I think they have this very naïve sense that they can semi-heroically and emotionlessly terminate targets at will and then go back for a beer and pizza with their buddies. This may be indelicate, but killing people is dirty, nasty business that scars you. It reminds me very much of the way women speak about getting an abortion – you know, like having this living thing torn out of your body in a way you never forget, even if it was your choice. My supervisor on the psychiatric unit I worked on while going through medical school was part of an SOG (special forces for the non-military) group in Vietnam. I remember that he was disgusted with the leisurely, romanticized way they portrayed a fire fight in the movies. He said in real life it is instantaneous. One minute your walking down a path, the next minute bullets are flying all around you and you are pissing on yourself as you are unloading ammo as fast as you can, squirting down the jungle in all directions because you can’t see who is shooting at you. 30 seconds later, its all over. Hopefully, not for you.

He said he made the decision to leave the military one Christmas Day when he was flying out on his second mission that day… and found that he was looking forward to it.

I recently built a house and one of the guys on the construction crew had done black ops missions in Vietnam. He only mentioned it to me because he knew I was a vet and we only spoke about it briefly. Believe me, he wasn't bragging and in fact it took me awhile to figure out that the haunted look I saw in his eyes wasn't regret... it was shame.

Another thing that people are generally unprepared for once they enlist is that for the length of your term the military owns you. Not like some stupid back alley, gansta bravado... I mean they really own you. Like a piece of property. And they have very little patience for any agenda, life, or needs their property may have in the interim.

That is not to say that the military is necessarily a negative experience. I had an excellent tour of duty that had a very positive effect on my life. I met my wife and my two best friends there, and I finally grew up. I cannot say the same for many of my peers, however. Even given the fact that it was a peace time Army, many of them had negative experiences, especially those who went into the infantry. Hell, I was held up at gun point just walking by an infantry barracks. And even in my relatively isolated world in a medical unit, one of my friends was jailed because of the things he did to accommodate his heroin addiction.

Given all of this, I would ask you to carefully consider why you want to go into the military. And after you had considered it carefully, I would ask you to do a lot of research, talk to a lot of people (not your recruiter, who cannot be trusted), and then consider it again. This isn't a lifestyle choice like whether you should exercise more often. If you make a wrong decision here, you won't be making anymore lifestyle choices.

If you do decide to enlist, I would like to echo the suggestion already posted: choose your MOS very, very carefully. In large part, it will determine the people you will associate with, where you will live on base, and what you will experience. It will also determine if you have a marketable skill after you leave the military. For example, because I was attached to a medical unit (and all doctors and nurses are officers who the military wants to retain), I had the best barracks, the best food, and, perhaps the best of all, I had women in my unit - intelligent, vivacious, attractive women. It was quite a bit different story in the grunt units, as I already mentioned.

In terms of the Marines, the supervisor I mentioned who was SOG was often times inserted into a particular campaign to coordinate activities between Marine units. His opinion was that the Marine Corps attracted a certain type of person who lent themselves to being used a fodder. So they were. And the ones who were smart enough not to be fodder were often dragged into a bad situation because of the stupidity or impulsiveness of their colleagues. Of course, that was a long time ago. However, if I was going into the military right now, the Marines would be my last choice unless I had some sort of righteous need to see action in Iraq. As someone posted previously, the Air Force would be my first choice – generally because it draws a higher class of people and has many good post-military career options.

I hope this provided some insight. Good luck with your decision.

[Silur]

In my view there are many more useful things to do with your life than joining the military. The fact that they are training you for the sole purpose of ending someone else's life should be a great warning sign to anyone, in my opinion - chosing to join because they give you an education and good discipline is like praising the usefulness of earthquakes to improve the national GNP.

Before you decide, try to find a Vietnam veteran to talk to. I had the privilege of meeting one when I was a student, and what he told me would be enough to dissuade anyone from joining any of the armed forces.

[Morlock]

In my view there are many more useful things to do with your life than joining the military.

The only thing in the paragraph that isn't nonsense.

The fact that they are training you for the sole purpose of ending someone else's life should be a great warning sign to anyone, in my opinion - chosing to join because they give you an education and good discipline is like praising the usefulness of earthquakes to improve the national GNP.

This is just a big, steaming load of BS. Soldiers aren't trained to end someone's life. They are trained to protect their country and it's citizens. And spoken as some who has been in the army, trust me, there is so much life experience to be gained that you can't possibly find anywhere else. The fact that a Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq vet tells you the army will ruin your life is not the rule, it's the exception. Unfortunately, the US has sent it's soldiers all to often on stupid 'missions', or wars, like that, so it's soldiers got a bad deal.

[Silur]

The fact that a Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq vet tells you the army will ruin your life is not the rule, it's the exception. Unfortunately, the US has sent it's soldiers all to often on stupid 'missions', or wars, like that, so it's soldiers got a bad deal.

Statistically speaking, there seems to be far more exceptions than rules in this case.

You may rationalize your own view of the military any way you please, but people tend to get killed whenever the military is doing it's job. I do agree that, unfortunately, some military is needed to defend your country and citizens, since there are other nations with offensive armies. As for "defending", it is usually a term reserved for the occasion when your soldiers are standing on your own territory fending off other countries military. Pearl Harbour is the only such occasion in US history.

Can you list any non-stupid missions of late? I can add a few to the stupid list if you'd like.

Edit: One sentence went MIA.

[Morlock]

Statistically speaking, there seems to be far more exceptions than rules in this case.

Maybe in the US since WWII. The US is not the entire world.

You may rationalize your own view of the military any way you please, but people tend to get killed whenever the military is doing it's job.

And people wouldn't be killed if the military isn't doing it's job?

As for "defending", it is usually a term reserved for the occasion when your soldiers are standing on your own territory fending off other countries military.

I don't understand your point....yes, that is the widely accepted definition of "defending". Do you see anything wrong with that?

Can you list any non-stupid missions of late? I can add a few to the stupid list if you'd like.

Yes, I can, but as I would be in the minority opinion, I'll refrain from doing so, so as not to divert attention from the matter at hand.
As I said, the military's function is not for these missions, but for the day-to-day business of keeping a nation safe. I worked in the air-force, in a F-16 squadron, first as a technician, than in a more executive position, in both positions my job was to take care of the planes. Aside from the importance of the job, the amount of responsibility and trust that is put in you something no one at the age of 18 is going to find anywhere else. At 19, I was arguing with generals and telling them what's what. You can't get that any where else. And, aside from that, you will find freindships in the army you won't find anywhere else. I met my girlfriend in the army. Many of my best friends are from the army. My unit was like on big, 150-man family. It's a life-altering experience that focused me and gave me skills I couldn't find anywhere else.

In short, I'm just saying......you had to have gone thru it to be able to impart what the military experince is like, since, according to your attitude above, you've got the wrong idea.

And, true, I did not go through combat in the army (even though I've been in my share of shooting and bombmings), and cannot tell you what it's like encountering an enemy in combat, but, the military experience is certainly not a one-faceted experience. I spoke with my best firends in combat units all the time, and the feeling are very much the same.

[Moonbiter]

Posted by Morlock, and the first time we agree on something:

The only thing in the paragraph that isn't nonsense.

Posted later by Morlock, and we're back to business as usual: :laugh:

This is just a big, steaming load of BS. Soldiers aren't trained to end someone's life. They are trained to protect their country and it's citizens. And spoken as some who has been in the army, trust me, there is so much life experience to be gained that you can't possibly find anywhere else. The fact that a Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq vet tells you the army will ruin your life is not the rule, it's the exception. Unfortunately, the US has sent it's soldiers all to often on stupid 'missions', or wars, like that, so it's soldiers got a bad deal.

Just to make something perfectly clear: The first and foremost reason for anyone to be trained as a soldier, is to end someone's life. Every other issue, whether it's defensive or aggressive, is a moot point. You join the army to learn how to kill and/or incapacitate to the best of your abilities, and that's the reason we have soldiers and armies.
I got enlisted because "back then" it was mandatory. We had a cold war going on, and every able-bodied male had to serve 12 months of military service, without excuses. Even during Basic Training I developed greatly as a person, and gained attributes that were, at the time, quite beyond me. (for further details, see Dowaco's "Teen Rebellion" thread...) Of course I used the opportunity to get educated, and became a Gun Mechanic (oh, I know, on an RPG forum it's called a Weaponsmith) a trade which saved my bony behind from bankrupcy years later. Anyways, after my mandatory year was up, I volunteered due to personal reasons to serve in the foreign services, first with the UN in Lebanon, later in Nicaragua with "NATO" during the Iran/Contras controversy.

Today things have changed. If you're in the army, even up here on the reef, you will be asked to go to war. The UN's former military might is a coctail party joke, and NATO has devolved from a strictly defensive coalition to an extension of the will of the US Armed Forces. Case in point: During October, Norwegian fighter planes bombes 139 targets in Afghanistan. That's only the official number. Norway is publicly not at war with Afghanistan, or any other nation, but we're members of NATO. What NATO is doing in Afhanistan is a bit of a.. never mind....

I'm rambling a bit here, but my point is this: Joining the army in the US at the moment is IMHO not a good idea unless you want to see combat action. The Yanks are scraping every closet and sidewalk for people who'd like to be shipped overseas, and CNN online today featured a rather disgusting spot about how you get paid and how you get treated when you come back home. The learning curve from Vietnam to Iraq/Afghanistan is flatter than Holland.

Take care!

My 50 Euros

[Vicsun]

And people wouldn't be killed if the military isn't doing it's job?

In my free time, I amuse myself by finding single, lonely women and brutally murdering them. That's a-okay, though, because even if I didn't women would still get killed.

In a more general statement: group X does immoral act Y, but because group X isn't the only group performing immoral act Y and immoral act Y wouldn't stop if group X stopped performing it, group X's actions are not immoral.

This line of reasoning has been abused so much I'm pretty sure it has its own name.

I don't understand your point....yes, that is the widely accepted definition of "defending". Do you see anything wrong with that?

Did you honestly not understand what he meant? I thought it was pretty clear. Must be a clash of cultures or something.
To clarify on Silur's behalf, armies in first world countries are usually used offensively (Israel excluded) so the line "I'm in the army to defend my country" which I keep on hearing (honestly, I've heard that argument every time I talk to someone who's served in the armed forces, regardless of nationality. Has some international convention of army-pundits decided that phrase should be constantly parroted?) is very obviously a big steaming pile of bovine excrement.

edit: to actually give some advise: I know quite a few people who've served in the American armed-forces, and contrary to Silur's experience, they're all happy with their choice. If the fact that you have to kill people and have the possibility of being killed doesn't bother you, I'd personally say go ahead.
One thing that has already been mentioned in this thread but bears repeating (many times over) is the fact that recruiters will lie to you. Straight out lie. A lot. Not in a bending-the-truth kind of way either, they will straight up tell you inaccurate information to get you to sign up. Don't trust them.
"Basic training is fun. Full Metal Jacket? Never seen that film. Sign up with the combat medics if you don't want to see any action" Basic training wasn't fun and the guy ended up in the front lines.

[Moonbiter]

Vicsun, you posted this:

To clarify on Silur's behalf, armies in first world countries are usually used offensively (Israel excluded) so the line "I'm in the army to defend my country" which I keep on hearing (honestly, I've heard that argument every time I talk to someone who's served in the armed forces, regardless of nationality. Has some international convention of army-pundits decided that phrase should be constantly parroted?) is very obviously a big steaming pile of bovine excrement.

Sorry, but you're quite wrong on this issue. If I can argue my own case: Norway is a member of NATO, which is a strictly defensive pact according to it's own charter. Norway's army could at the moment not repel an invasion from San Marino, yet this boneheaded pact which was twisted out of proportion during "Desert Storm" and the conflict in the Balkans, demand that we contribute to the "defensive effort" in places practically unheard of. That's my entire point! Why is NATO asking/demanding more troops to be sent from European countries to Afghanistan? Except from an astonishing production of heroin, what has Afhanistan ever done to Norway that demands the attention of NATO? The mind boggles.....

[Vicsun]

Vicsun, you posted this:



Sorry, but you're quite wrong on this issue. If I can argue my own case: Norway is a member of NATO, which is a strictly defensive pact according to it's own charter. Norway's army could at the moment not repel an invasion from San Marino, yet this boneheaded pact which was twisted out of proportion during "Desert Storm" and the conflict in the Balkans, demand that we contribute to the "defensive effort" in places practically unheard of. That's my entire point! Why is NATO asking/demanding more troops to be sent from European countries to Afghanistan? Except from an astonishing production of heroin, what has Afhanistan ever done to Norway that demands the attention of NATO? The mind boggles.....

What exactly am I wrong about? I think you just pretty much agreed with what I said, unless your post was some subtle ironic maneuver that went over my head

[Morlock]

In my free time, I amuse myself by finding single, lonely women and brutally murdering them. That's a-okay, though, because even if I didn't women would still get killed.

Yes, but by finding single, lonely women and brutally murdering them, I am also stopping the the thugs down the street from slaughtering the kids in my neighborhood, because A. the single, lonely women are the ones doing he slaughtering, or B. the thugs are dispirited by seeing their wives killed. I can't afford my moral qualms about killing single, lonely woemn to stop me, lest me and my neighborhood be slaughtered by them.

Did you honestly not understand what he meant? I thought it was pretty clear. Must be a clash of cultures or something.
To clarify on Silur's behalf, armies in first world countries are usually used offensively (Israel excluded) so the line "I'm in the army to defend my country" which I keep on hearing (honestly, I've heard that argument every time I talk to someone who's served in the armed forces, regardless of nationality. Has some international convention of army-pundits decided that phrase should be constantly parroted?) is very obviously a big steaming pile of bovine excrement.

Well, as I am living in an exception, I cannot identify at all with calling that BS. Over here, it's the real deal. Soldiers here actually do defend their country and it's people, and aren't thousands of miles away fighting for economic and political gain, or thousands of miles away defending interests that have nothing to do with their country.