Story of Icewind Dale... of the past?

probe53 · Post by **probe53** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:22 pm

The story of icewind dales take place in the PAST before the other games.. like baldurs gate right?

.....but the game came out AFTER baldurs gate and other series?

how far back does this history go?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:42 pm

Actually, it is my belief that the original Icewind Dale takes place at the exact same time as Baldur's Gate, as there's one person who talks about the end boss of BG as his contact and that he's waiting for an answer from him.

The order games come out doesn't really matter.

Icewind Dale II takes place somewhere 20-50 years after the first one, as you do get to meet a few characters in the second one that were in the first one.

(Two of them you met as kids.)

Faberge · Post by **Faberge** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:11 am

According to IWD manual the game takes place in Eleint, 1281 DR, Year of the Cold Soul. That is sixteen years before Drizzt Do'Urden said goodbye to the Underdark and decided to become the hero of Icewind Dale with his merry companions. And if I remember it correctly you might have met certain boy in the first expansion.

And according to the IWD2 manual the year in which the game takes place is Eleint, 1312 DR, Year of the Cold Soul. And that too would be sixteen years before Drizzt Do’Urden left the Underdark.

Yes, there is a small conflict. But most likely we could blame Oswald Fiddlebender and his hellish flying machine. There has been no scarier hell lord than our helpful gnome and his flying boat. Plus he owns me money.

The Baldur’s Gate game series happen after Icewind Dale ones. In Icewind Dale there has been no Time of Troubles, so there hasn’t even been the birth of the procrastinator you might have been playing with in the Baldur’s Gate, and the few possible Drow sightings you are going to see in Icewind Dale are Nym and Malavon Despana.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:54 pm

Faberge wrote: The Baldur’s Gate game series happen after Icewind Dale ones. In Icewind Dale there has been no Time of Troubles, so there hasn’t even been the birth of the procrastinator you might have been playing with in the Baldur’s Gate, and the few possible Drow sightings you are going to see in Icewind Dale are Nym and Malavon Despana. [/color]

I don't think you can say that. The Time of Troubles is AD&D 2nd Edition being ushered into the world, and IWD is AD&D 2nd Edition. IWD2 is actually 3rd Edition, BTW.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:29 am

The Time of Troubles happen 1358 D.R., that's way past Icewind Dale I and II. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 happen 1369 to 71. Bale sired a lot of Children before the Time of Troubles, he saw his impending doom at the hand of then mortal Cyric and tried to save his immortal soul, that's why your character is actually around 18 in BG 1.

That Icewind Dale II is D&D 3rd Edition rules has nothing to do with the Time of Troubles. It's just the gradual developing of the Baldur's Gate engine from AD&D ( 2nd edition ) rules in BG 1 and Icewind Dale 1 to extended rules in BG 2 and the whole 3rd edition in Icewind Dale 2.

C-K'R[PhoEniX] · Post by **C-K'R[PhoEniX]** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:52 am

What about the description of that item from Icewind Dale "Girdle of Beatification"? It mentions some hero Thorm Wainward who destroyed cult of The Unseeing Eye. I know that's not your hero's name from Baldur's Gate

, but wasn't there a quest in BG2 where you had to destroy The Unseeing Eye and it's blind acolytes. So there are 2 Unseeing eyes? :laugh: Either that or Icewind Dale comes after BG.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:13 pm

The Cult of the Unseeing Eye has more then one temple....it's a catchall for all Beholder cults in the Forgotten Realms, I am pretty sure that said hero didn't destroy all Beholders that have the notion to rule over humans....

And even if said hero did destroy the whole cult, after over 70 years the cult might arise again, do't you think....

Btw...is nobody here reading the manual ? It clearly says in the introduction that it's the year 1281 D.R.

Faberge · Post by **Faberge** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:20 am

Why don't you reread the third post and then the IWD2 Manual. You can download it from the Sorcerer's Place. There should be links to that site in one of the pinned topics.

And I'd like to remind yo you that there are certain gods alive and in power in IWD 1 and 2 that are not in Baldur's Gate.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:48 pm

Faberge wrote:Why don't you reread the third post and then the IWD2 Manual. You can download it from the Sorcerer's Place. There should be links to that site in one of the pinned topics.

And I'd like to remind yo you that there are certain gods alive and in power in IWD 1 and 2 that are not in Baldur's Gate.

I assume that's directed at me.

I don't care what's in the manual. I'm 100% positive that the Time of Troubles is the AD&D world transitioning from 1st to 2nd Edition. I also know that BG1, BG2 and IWD1 are all (albeit loosly at times) based on 2nd Edition rules.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:28 am

That's not really true...The Forgotten Realms didn't exist as an offical campaignworld before AD&D, only what Ed Greenwood ( creator of the realms ) released on Dragon Magazine.
With the release of AD&D other campaign worlds were searched for and so Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft were created from existing amateur stuff released beforehand on Dragon.

That the Time of Troubles marks this event ( from unofficial D&D 1st Edition campaign to AD&D offical campaign ) doesn't mean that everything that happened before said event would not incorporate AD&D rules. The same is true for later stuff.
Just because D&D is now 3.5 Edition and the AD&D rules are obsolete from the offical point of view doesn't mean that everything before the Coming of Shade has to be played with other rules then 3.5. Icewind Dale 2 just came out 3rd Edition rules because by the time it was in midcreation Wizards of the Coast changed the ruleset.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:29 pm

Hmm.. I know the last post in this thread was about a month ago, but I'm wondering if there might be some light to shed on this timeline issue.

In IWD 1, on the first level of Dragon's Eye you come across the body of an elf woman (can't quite recall her name, but it starts with an E).. If you read her journal, which has a certain morose or pessimistic sound, you'll see her comment at the end, which goes something like:
Oh my God, I'm beginning to sound like Cousin Xan.

Now how could we forget about everyone's favourite, gloomy, BG1 mage... :laugh:

I'm not sure how elven lifespans would work into any of this, but that could suggest BG1 and IWD1 span roughly the same period???

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:10 pm

I do recall something like that. But really, no one seems to recall one of the commoners in Kuldahar that talks about Sarevok? The guy mentions that he is Sarevok's contact in Icewind Dale or something of the like.

This shows that the game takes place around the same time, or perhaps before the start of BG1.

The item descriptions prove little as they could be artifacts that were lost a long while ago.

We do not know the exact difference between the ages of the main character and Sarevok, but as far as we know, even before the death of Gorion, Sarevok had already established an empire.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:56 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:I do recall something like that. But really, no one seems to recall one of the commoners in Kuldahar that talks about Sarevok? The guy mentions that he is Sarevok's contact in Icewind Dale or something of the like.

This shows that the game takes place around the same time, or perhaps before the start of BG1.

.. I have to run back to Kuldahar for some selling and stocking up... I'll do some intensive interrogation and see if I can hit on anything..

If indeed one of the commoners mentions Saravok...added to the Xan reference, I'd say that provides some pretty good evidence that BG1 and IWD cover the same general period.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:12 pm

I don't remember at the moment which one it was exactly. I'm pretty sure it was a male and he was outside.

I can't check as I'm doing the Luremaster expansion.

I say... we should gather a group and play on Gamespy. >.>

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:16 pm

Well, I'm pretty sure I spoke to every NPC outside (and inside) in Kuldahar.. but no dice. It's always possible I missed him though.

I was able to check the journal entry however, since it is still in my inventory, and here is what it said

Except (shortened) of Erevain's Journal:

.... Why resist the tide against us? Those who do often turn to the darkness of war and conquest to reclaim the lands that we once ruled. It is an endeavour doomed to failure. Oh there I go again. Corellon help me, I'm starting to sound like Cousin Xan.

I think that is an unmistakable reference to Xan from BG1

@AC,
sorry, I know this is not directly IWD2.. but it's in the context of trying to figure out the timeline. Hope that's okay, if not feel free to edit my post

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:25 pm

**Minor Spoiler**

@DW,

A bit later in IWD2 you will get some very precise timeline (date) evidence for when IWD1 & 2 take place. **possible spoiler**

When you do the "holy avenger" quest in IWD2, you visit a graveyard built just off of Kuldahar Pass (A goblin warren in IWD1).

The tombstones of many IWD1 personalities are in there, like Hrothgar and Mother Eugenia. Their tombstones are dated by year.

I can't recall any direct "dates" mentioned in BG2 although I think there are some indirect ones.

Might be able to piece together a parallel timeline for the two games from that.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:28 pm

@Philos,
come to think of it... I do remember that graveyard in IWD2. Now I just wish I hadn't managed to lose disc 2 of my IWD2 game..

I'm curious at this point, I may just have to start trolling EBay or something

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:46 pm

Actually I have the game installed at the moment and I could look it up, but I won't until tomorrow.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:10 am

Not to worry,
I still do too. I also remembered that I had a saved game from "right after" completing that quest. Was simple to reload it and research.

Here's some of the tombstones:

Hrothgar, Hildreth (dwarf you meet in the Easthaven tavern at the start), Erevain, & Jermsy's family all have tomstones dated 1281. So that is the date of the expedition and the IWD1 game. (BTW, twin brothers Ferg & Gus from the Kuldahar Ilmater Temple passed away a year afterwards, 1282)

Mother Egenia died in 1296, which was between the two games. This was when she was "raising" Isair & Madae.

There were a number of tombstones of people that died in 1301 (harse blizzard I think).

The most recent was a tombstone dated 1309. So at least 28 years between IWD1 & 2. I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was 30 years IIRC. But definitely at least 28.

Lucita · Post by **Lucita** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:11 am

I am pretty sure I never heard somebody talk about Sarevok in Kuldahar. About the Xan theory...Elves can live up to 700 and more years, so I don't see a big problem there.
Another good catch is that Drizzt Do'Urden and his fellows aren't appearing in any way ( Not like in BG1 and BG2 ), Drizzt isn't appearing in the Realms before 1315 and I am pretty sure the most prominent residents of Icewind Dale would appear in the game.