Eternal question: Kensai 9 or 13 ---> Thief

[Jedi_Sauraus]

I'm making a kensai 9 or 13 ---> Thief and I just can't make up my mind.
the type of char. I really want to build is a good backstabber ninja type, preferably with access to plenty of "assasinations" but I'd also like to mess around with the high level traps.

I thought of making an assasin, but they seem to have a weak thaco, and do not have access to *** in two weapon fighting. now for the Kensai ---> thief
what kind of thaco am I looking at if I dual at 9 compared to 13 ?? I know my thaco will be lower by 5 but what will the actual value be say mid ToB ??

Also this is my first dual class so correct me if I'm wrong but if I dual at 13 it would work like this: 1,250,000 to get to level 13 then another 880,000 to regain my Kensai Levels, a total of 2,130,000.

This leaves 1 question remaining: when do I get my first HLA?? when my total exp reaches 3 million, or when my thief exp reaches 3 million. this is a very important distintion for me, if it's based on total exp I only need to wait approx. 900k after regaining Kensai before my first HLA otherwise it's over 2 million

I've read the many threads on this topic and there seems to be a 50/50 consensus on either option

[Thrar]

I can't answer all your questions, but maybe some of them.

I think you got things a little wrong about the THAC0. By advancing four more fighter levels, you get the THAC0 lowered by 4 points (not five). But don't forget that leveling as a thief (from 9 to 13) also gets you some points, which won't matter if you dual at 13. I don't know how many, it won't be four, but not zero either. I'd say two, but I don't know.
The reason why people consider dualing at 13 is not the THAC0, and it's not the prof point at 12 either, but most importantly the extra half attack a fighter gets at that level. That's what you have to consider mostly I think, and it matters much more than the THAC0.

I'm not sure about when you get the HLAs, should be at 3m XP total, but I cannot guarantee it.

The biggest disadvantage of the late dual at 13 is of course the long time to regain fighter abilities, although, as a thief, you only need 880k XP, which really isn't that much. Still, if you play SoA with a party of six, expect to get your abilities back when exiting the underdark, more or less. Still a long time to spend as single class, and after dualing rather weak, too. With a smaller party, obviously this gets faster, but you'll also have more difficulties in the game, since your PC will be very weak for quite a while.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Yep, I knew you dual at 13 or 9 for that extra 1/2 attack. as a Kensai you get thaco lowered by 5 I'm 99% sure. 4 from the extra 4 fighter levels +1 at level 12 since kensai gets +1thaco/dmg per 3 levels.

Lets turn this around, can a 9 ---> theif hit anything in ToB will my thaco be at least approx. -5 to -10?? the loss of 1/2 (1 after imp haste) won't be too crippling for a Kensai/thief (I hope ) but 5 to thaco is pretty substantial

also does anybody know from expierience how HLA's work for the second class not just for kensai/thief. X ---> going to anything, will work the same as Kensai ---> thief. so is it 3 million total or 3 million for the second class. If it's 3 million for the second class I'm probably going to stick with a level 9 kensai.

[kmonster]

The difference between dualing at kensai level 9 and kensai level 13 will actually be 3 Thac0. Thief 21 gets 10 base thac0 which is the same as fighter 11.
Another advantadge of the kensai13 are the slightly better saving throws.
Your thac0 if you dual at level 9 will be about:
10-2(specialisation)-3(strength)-4(weapon)-3(kensai) = -2. So your thac0 is already perfect against enemies with -4 AC or worse. There are very few enemies with AC that good.
And you can improve your thac0 eve more: higher strength, specialisation gauntlets, +4 for backstabbing, buff spells ...

You gain the first HLA when your second class reaches 3,080,000 XP (thief level 24).

You can also try a halfling fighter/thief multiclass. You gain the full thac0, far better saving throws (fighter 17 + halfling bonus) and more HLAs.
You can also use SK for creating a fighter/assassin or kensai/thief multiclass if you want very high damage.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

You gain the first HLA when your second class reaches 3,080,000 XP (thief level 24).

well this settles it for me then. I'm simply not waiting to over 4 million exp for my first HLA. thats well into ToB. a 6 man team usually has 3.5-3.6 at the tree of life without watchers keep.

I would'nt try a gnome or dwarf simply because I dislike my main char being a midget :laugh:

I could do a fighter thief multiclass but in that case I'd be using him as a tank the temptation for a heavy tank with carsomyr would be too great and I'd be relying on GWW more than is healthy

with this Kensai --> thief I plan to roleplay a ninja/assasin like in the movie "last samurai" meaning I'm restricting myself to katanas and leather armour.

also 1 last question I'd really like to get Nalia's keep as a stronghold instead of the thief one, so once I regain my thief levels will I get a choice like a multi class or how does this work. or will I have to rush with as little exp as possible to do the keep ??