Explain to me how weapons work...

[De_Priester]

Okay now I imagine there are a couple of players out there who have no idea how weapons exactly work, I for one use the vendorcheck method. The weapon that's most expensive is probably the best.... Now this isn't always right nor does every weapon have the same effect for a character.

A few questions I would like answered in this post:

- How do you identify a weapontype? How do you find out what kind of weapon it is you are using in order to benefit from the weapon proficiency.

I ask this question because I always see the proficiency type martial/dwarven or similar and to me this doesn't make sense.

- How does damage work? 1d4 2d4? criticals?

Explain to me please how damage is calculated.

- How do strength and dexterity add to damage?

Explain to me how for example damage is multiplied with these factors.

- Some items give +3 strength or +3 dexterity are these items better?

I gave Shandra (low strength 11) a club with +3 strength, figured it would help her out. Was this a good choice or would I do better giving her a superb weapon and just ignoring the strength.


I know a lot might be burried within the manual but I think I speak for more than one when I say they wrote the manuals with one thing in mind....

Selling strategy guides!

So explain to me how weapons work!

[zamiel]

- From the name mainly. If it is a named weapon, you will always find under the weapon proficiency type a tag 'Base item'. That's its type.
- 1d4 means 1 4-sided dice. So it damages 1-4 hp. 2d8 is two 8-sided dice, means a random number 2-16. I personally check the average (counting crits as well) if I want to deicide which weapon will I use. For exampe a d8 19-20/x2 weapon usually damages (1+8)/2+(1+8)x2/10/2=5,4 hp (first is the plain damage, the second is the critical hit). Generally: (min.damage+max.damage)/2+(min.damage+max.damage)x(crit.hit multiplier)/(critical chance in 20)/2
- You make an attack roll with a d20. You add to this number your attack bonus (base attack bonus + strength bonus if you have melee or dexterity bonus if you have ranged weapon + spell effects if any) and check if this number is more than your opponent's ac. If yes, you hit, and you can deal damage. There is a thing called damage reduction. It only reduces damage, does not help with avoiding a hit. There are two types of damage resistance, can be a constant or a percentile value. A constant damage reduction simply deducts its value from the damage (for example if you are hit for 8 hp and you have 3 damage reduction, you suffer a 5hp wound), while the percentile resists it given value from the damage (you are hit for 10 hp and have 50% damage reduction you suffer an 5 hp wound). The damage reductions stack, so it if you have a stoneskin/etheral visage spell on, you resist 30 damage from each hit.
- Strength bonus adds to your attack and damage with melee weapon, dexterity adds to your attack with ranged weapon and to your ac. So dex does not give damage at all. And strength does not add damage to ranged weapons. However, if the ranged weapon is 'Mighty' +3 for example, you can add 3 strength bonus as damage (if you have that much) but no more.
- Criticals are expressed in the following manner: min.crit.value-20/crit.multiplier This means if you rolled an attack roll wich is between these two numbers (called threat range) you scored a critical hit. Criticals always hit (so it is possible to kill an enemy with very low attack but great critical chance) and they deal more damage. This is indicated by the multiplier. x2 means your damage (counting in str bonuses, enchantment bonuses, elemental damages) is multiplied by 2 (actually the engine rolls two damages nut multiplies, so it is possible to get an odd damage with x2 multiplier). Sneak attack does not multiply.

According to above you can deicide which item is the better for Shandra. A +3 str club gives her (since her str was 11) +2 attack and damage, so a plain +3 club is way better than that.

[De_Priester]

- From the name mainly.
- 1d4 means 1 4-sided dice. So it damages 1-4 hp. 2d8 is two 8-sided dice, means a random number 2-16. I personally check the average (counting crits as well) if I want to deicide which weapon will I use. For exampe a d8 19-20/x2 weapon usually damages (1+8)/2+(1+8)x2/10/2=5,4 hp (first is the plain damage, the second is the critical hit). Generally: (min.damage+max.damage)/2+(min.damage+max.damage)x(crit.hit multiplier)/(critical chance in 20)/2
- You make an attack roll with a d20. You add to this number your attack bonus (base attack bonus + strength bonus if you have melee or dexterity bonus if you have ranged weapon + spell effects if any) and check if this number is more than your opponent's ac. If yes, you hit, and you can deal damage. There is a thing called damage reduction. It only reduces damage, does not help with avoiding a hit. There are two types of damage resistance, can be a constant or a percentile value. A constant damage reduction simply deducts its value from the damage (for example if you are hit for 8 hp and you have 3 damage reduction, you suffer a 5hp wound), while the percentile resists it given value from the damage (you are hit for 10 hp and have 50% damage reduction you suffer an 5 hp wound). The damage reductions stack, so it if you have a stoneskin/etheral visage spell on, you resist 30 damage from each hit.
- Strength bonus adds to your attack and damage with melee weapon, dexterity adds to your attack with ranged weapon and to your ac. So dex does not give damage at all. And strength does not add damage to ranged weapons. However, if the ranged weapon is 'Mighty' +3 for example, you can add 3 strength bonus as damage (if you have that much) but no more.
- Criticals are expressed in the following manner: min.crit.value-20/crit.multiplier This means if you rolled an attack roll wich is between these two numbers (called threat range) you scored a critical hit. Criticals always hit (so it is possible to kill an enemy with very low attack but great critical chance) and they deal more damage. This is indicated by the multiplier. x2 means your damage (counting in str bonuses, enchantment bonuses, elemental damages) is multiplied by 2 (actually the engine rolls two damages nut multiplies, so it is possible to get an odd damage with x2 multiplier). Sneak attack does not multiply.

According to above you can deicide which item is the better for Shandra. A +3 str club gives her (since her str was 11) +2 attack and damage, so a plain +3 club is way better than that.

So I kinda flunked math, can you explain those formulas as if I was three years old and include some examples? Also there is this nifty feat called weapon finesse, this would help you benefit from dexterity right? Also you mentioned:

- You make an attack roll with a d20. You add to this number your attack bonus (base attack bonus + strength bonus if you have melee or dexterity bonus if you have ranged weapon + spell effects if any) and check if this number is more than your opponent's ac. If yes, you hit, and you can deal damage.

So strength actually helps you hit?

And let me get this straight you have two sets of rolls, one roll to determine if you can hit someone and the other your weaponroll is what kind of damage you do?

I wouldn't mind a more elaborate explanation if there is anyone here that feels like a teacher

[zamiel]

Okay, so your min. damage is the damage which you deal at least. Go to your character sheet, and you will find there your damage. It would look like this:
Damage: 1-12+24 19-20/x3
+5 slashing damage
+1d6 cold damage
+1d6 electrical damage

This means you minimum deal 1(from the 1-12 part)+24(strength bonus)+5(actually this is the enchantment bonus)+1(cold)+1(electrical)=32 damage.
You maximum deal 12(from the 1-12 part)+24(strength bonus)+5(enchantment bonus)+6(cold)+6(electrical)=53 damage
According to the mentioned formula:
(32(min.damage)+53(max.damage))/2+(32+53)x3(crit. multiplier)/10(20/2->the 19-20 crit. threat means that you will score 2 critical hits in every 20 attacks)/2=48,875 This is your average damage in the long run with each hit.

Weapon finesse does what it is written: if your dexterity bonus is higher, and you are wielding small weapons, you can use your dex. modifier instead of your strength modifier for attacks. For damage you will still use your str. modifier, so a character with a dagger with 8 strength and 18 dexterity will have +4 attack bonus and damage for d4-1.

Yes, your strength bonus helps you hit with a melee weapon.

The first roll is with a d20 (your attack), if you hit you make a second roll with the dice according to your weapon (d8 for example for a longbow).

[xchagger]

Also, regarding Weapon Finesse, I thought it was only used to help you in hitting your target. So is there any point getting your DEX over 20?

[zamiel]

Also, regarding Weapon Finesse, I thought it was only used to help you in hitting your target. So is there any point getting your DEX over 20?

If you have weapon finesse and want to have more attack bonus and/or ac and/or reflex save, then surely.
IMHO not really.

[De_Priester]

The first roll is with a d20 (your attack), if you hit you make a second roll with the dice according to your weapon (d8 for example for a longbow).

So all weapons are equal in speed? how does speed factor with damage?

and d8 for a longbow? is that the same as 1d8?

[zamiel]

No, the bigger the weapon, the slower it is. In the beginning of each round you roll an initiative (with a d20) and then who have the highest initiative can cast/hit/shoot/pray/dowhatever he wishes, and then the second one, and so on. With weapons speed factor is its, hmmm, quickness, with spells its casting time, etc. Speed factor has nothing to do with damage.
But initiative in the game or in pnp does not really matter.

[Magrus]

Initiative does matter actually. However, in 3.5 edition and in this game, your weapon and equipment don't affect your Initiative. Your Dexterity affects Initiative, as well as a few feats you can get to improve it. It simply affects who goes in what order when combat starts. So, if you end up going first, you might kill off some of your enemies before they even hurt you, and hence be more likely to survive longer. In this respect, it is usually a better idea to have a lower Initiative with your healer than everyone else.

All in all though, all weapons are equal in the game system in speed. Initiative does not directly affect damage. The same for Dex. It will not provide a bonus to damage. However, it IS the governing attribute for ranged attacks, ranged touch spells (ala Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow, Ray of Enfeeblement, etc), and when using a finessable weapon with weapon finesse. It only affects your chance to hit. However, when you don't hit, you don't do damage, so it also indirectly affects damage in those cases.