Stat point fix for NWN 2 *possible spoilers*

[Solusek]

Like years ago in BG2, certain(every single one of them I think) NPCs have way too many stat points. Bishop for example starts with 16 str 16dex 15 con, 11 int, 14 wis, and 11char. WTF!? Max you can get ouf of a human ranger would be something like 16str, 16dex, 10con, 10 int, 14wis, 10char. That's a whole 8(!!!) stat points difference. I mean where's the point in that? Aren't YOU supposed to be the great hero and shard-bearer and what not? Even Shandra who is a SIMPLE FARM GIRL has wayyyyyyy more stat points than any human player can start with. This is just so RIDICULOUS...

Anyway, in BG2 there was something like a stat point fix patch from baldurdash(?) I think, which corrected the stat points of several possible party members. Is there anything like that for NWN 2 too? Thx in advance.

So long,
Sol

[Ningengirai]

Easiest fix? DebugMode. Cheat, in other words. The cheat codes you're looking for are:

SetSTR #
SetCON #
SetDEX #
SetWIS #
SetINT #
SetCHA #

Replace # with the number of your choice.

Here's how it works for me:

- right-click on the character whose stats you want to modify
- open their character description so you can see what you're doing
- hit enter, or ~ ( whichever works for you to get the DebugMode open )
- type: ##DebugMode 1
- hit enter
- type: ##SetDEX #
- hit enter
- check their stats, if satisfied...
- type: ##DebugMode 0
- hit enter

[Acleacius]

Ok maybe your right I haven't tried to analyze each one.
Though how do we get to they are jsut starting out?
They seem to be full 10-12 level characters not 1st level starting charactersm, unless I misunderstand you?

Obsidian obvioulsy skips over rules like everyone else for gameplay and balance, at least that is the intent.
Certianly whether it works or is believable/realistic well is always questionable, though and as Ningengirai says if you don't like something change it.

[Daeanor]

It's probably to compensate for the Artificial un-Intelligence. They always have to give NPCs better stats than player characters, because they do such idiotic things.

[Solusek]

Ok maybe your right I haven't tried to analyze each one.
Though how do we get to they are jsut starting out?
They seem to be full 10-12 level characters not 1st level starting charactersm, unless I misunderstand you?

Obsidian obvioulsy skips over rules like everyone else for gameplay and balance, at least that is the intent.
Certianly whether it works or is believable/realistic well is always questionable, though and as Ningengirai says if you don't like something change it.

Well, you can get there LvL 1 stats quite easily actually. Take Bishop for example. Let's say he's Lvl 10 when you get him. That'd be 2 stat gains. One at Level 4 and one at Level 8. So you just subtract 2 from his dexterity score and you have the stats he's starting out with.
Why dexterity? Level a ranger with archery style and press "recommended" when gaining stat points => +1 dexterity.

What I don't get is WHY they do this. It's not like the additional stat point make a useless NPC a useful one or anything like that. Bishop has many stat points he doesn't even use effectively(11int, 15con, 11 char). In my opinion in a single player RPG the character you're playing is supposed to be the "hero" and thus the strongest and most resourceful character. So why in the nine hells does a FARM GIRL have better stats than I have!? I mean HECK, I'm even her MENTOR.

So long,
Sol

[Ningengirai]

I don't really think that only the stat points matter. If I take Bishop with me, even at higher levels, he's among the ones that die first if it comes to a fight. I'm inclined to agree with Daeanor and say that their higher stats are supposed to make up for the idiotic AI.

Also, I don't quite agree with the view that we as the 'hero' should have the highest and best stats possible. It's what you make of them what counts. Technically speaking, the most powerful characters in the game should either be Ammon Jerro ( experience + knowledge ), Zja..heve ( can't. spell. that. bloody. name. ) because she's who knows how old and a cleric to boot, or the tanks. I mean, think about it: the way the game was scripted, your character could only be maximally 25-30 years old, or all the characters in the game you meet would have to be nearly immortal or Elves blessed with long live, or the time line doesn't make any sense. They all make it sound as though the first battle with the King of Shadows was ages in the past, while in reality, it was probably around 20 years, give or take a few.

You start out as the foster son/daughter of an Elf living in a tiny swamp village, where would you get the experience? Bishop, for example, is said to be in his late twenties and he's a Ranger. Casavir in his late thirties and a Paladin. Of course they'd have more experience - they started out a couple of years earlier than you.

I agree on Shandra, though. For a farm girl turned Fighter, she's awfully advanced when she joins the party.

[Solusek]

Well yes, you are right. It's not the stats, it's what you make out of them. BUT this is an RPG after all. And in an RPG it is not the ability to play your character effectively that matters imo but mainly the stats/attributes/skills that reflect what he/she is good at. In my opinion the stats(str/dex/con/int/wis/char) represent the abilities you are "born with" in a way while your level represents the experience.

So yes, maybe Bishop should have a higher level due to his higher age, as well as Zjaehjeahsjnmcnvjdf.... should have, but instead they just have higher stat points. Aside from that, experience depends on HOW you spend your life. If you sit at home for a thousand years staring at the blank walls you won't get much experience. And finally, experience is what you make of it. Some people just learn faster than others, so age is not actually an argument. Futhermore you can't take the higher stat points to make up for the worthless AI as an argument since as I already mentioned, there are some stat points spent on the NPCs that are utterly useless for them.

In my opinion the main character in an RPG should be something special and thus be way more capable than the standard two copper adventurer. And as I already mentioned this is reflected in his skills/stats/feats/whatever and not in what the player imagines it to be or in what you make out of the stats etc. The story in NWN 2 inclines that you, the Kalach-cha, the Shard-Bearer, the savior of everyone and his mother ARE something special. So I think this should somehow be reflected in your character.

So long,
Sol

[Ningengirai]

BUT this is an RPG after all. And in an RPG it is not the ability to play your character effectively that matters imo but mainly the stats/attributes/skills that reflect what he/she is good at.

I think this is where most RPGers would disagree with you, though. RPG means roleplay game - you choose a character to play and you get into his/her role, and that includes the weaknesses. Otherwise, the whole aspect of gaining experience/leveling up would be a moot point and you might as well play an ego shooter where you're already the perfect soldier. It's like a learning process. There will always be someone better than you. That's real life, and yes, while this is largely a fantasy game, some real life rules still apply. In so far, your argument is a little flawed; RPG *does* mean to play your character effectively with the stats/feats/skills he/she earns while advancing in the game, and that does mean that there will be characters who outshine you in something.

In my opinion the stats(str/dex/con/int/wis/char) represent the abilities you are "born with" in a way while your level represents the experience.

Well, if that were true, you'd never gain any stat points in str/dex/etc. Stats do not stand for abilities per se, but more for your mental and physical status. You can't really look at these two - levels and stat points - separately because they influence each other. With experience comes wisdom, for example. With growing knowledge comes experience with the things you know. Your long travels gain you strength, but you also need strength to master them. The whole idea of leveling/attributes revolves around advancing in both while leaving them closely linked.

Of course, if you want to play a god, you'll play a god who leaves everyone else in the dust, but this is where for me, personally, the powergaming comes in, and that in return makes the whole idea of travelling with a party useless. If I wanted a character that's the best at everything and outshines his companions, the very people who are supposed to supplement and perfect the party, I'd give myself godmode and be done with it.

Also... I think in NWN2, it's made pretty damn clear that you ARE special. You ARE the Kalach-Cha, you ARE the Shardbearer, you ARE the only one who can defeat the King of Shadows, you ARE the only one who can wield the Sword of Gith. You ARE given your own keep by Lord Nasher and you ARE the commander of the army that beats the undead when the entire army of Neverwinter and the Lord's Alliance can't. By the time you finally fight the King of Shadows, you'll have reached Lvl 20 in-game, which is pretty damn near Epic Character ( only one level below, if memory serves me right ), meaning you'll be almost at the pinnacle of the class you've chosen. I mean, how much more special do you want to be, honestly?

Think about it: the "two-copper adventurers" might have a stat point or two more than you here and there... but YOU are their leader.

Also, with the kinds of companions we have in NWN2, it's also clear that they didn't spend their whole life staring at a wall, so I think the age = experience, or rather, circumstance = experience, does apply. If we break it down to facts? No matter what background you give yourself at character creation, your character is STILL going to be from West Harbor, with a distant Elf foster father and no clue about the outside world because you've never been there, while all other characters, except maybe Shandra, have already lived a dangerous life and thus do have more experience than you.