Best equipment for Mazzy help choosing please

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Hi, I got bored of the cheesy Kensai/thief and decided to remake a Paladin.
anyway, I have mazzy at level 8 in my team.

I know most people give her Halaberds........ but....... I've got nobody in my team capable of using Flail of Ages and Defender of Easthaven so...... the choice is between dual wielding FoA and DoE or possibly Halaberds since they seem to be so popular for her

I'm also open to suggestions in general but IMHO if she dual wields FoA stays. DoE would be convienient because it uses the same proficiencies ........ it looks like a natural fit but I'm not too sure either way

note; because of the abundance of helms armors ect I only need suggestions for weapons

also a question if she's dualwielding, should I add two ** to dual wield or weapon proficiency ASAP ??

if it's at all relevant to the thread, my newest team setup

Korgan: standard AoE + Crom
Jaheira : specral brand + Belm
Edwin: Best mage items Vecna, staff of cheese ect
Imoen: ????? whatever's left
Paladin: Carsomyr + best tank items
Mazzy......... No idea hence this thread

[Ian Kognitow]

Eh, Halberds? That sounds weird to me. Anyway, I typically play her according to her inherent stats. That primarily keeps her as an archer (with her grandmastery in short bow), which seems to be a good thing with your melee heavy party. So just go with the best short bow available: Tuigan-->Tansheron-->Gesen-->Darkfire. If you haven't played with archer types before, they can do some sick amounts of damage with stuff like improved haste, and eventually critical strikes. Her archery proficiency will also make her great as a targeting dispeller if you give her arrows of dispelling. (you can even give her the vhailor helm to make a purely dispelling mini-Mazzy and not even use up the arrows). For added cheesy fun, she's also probably the best for the Guard-button cheese.

Short Swords should be good for if enemies close. There are lots of versatile ones around--like Ilbratha, that gives her a mirror image for extra protection. Short Sword of the Mask can be had early just by going to watcher's keep and buying it.

Certainly max out dual wielding for the swords, and I agree that flail would be a fine complementary weapon. Mazzy's own Sword of Avoreen + FoA would be swell. Give her improved haste and have her run around to slow everyone on the battlefield. Give her a strength belt (or gauntlets of ogre power until Crom is built) and she'll be a powerhouse in both ranged and melee combat.

[Raven_Song]

Eh, Halberds? That sounds weird to me.

Not really. Equipping Mazzy with a two-handed weapon, like halberds, makes sense if you also plan to have her using a bow. I really hate switching between ranged weapons and dual wielding, so I always give Mazzy halberds.

I personally wouldn't bother with short swords, they're less damaging, and while versatile there aren't that many short-swords that prove useful at higher levels.

I've always thought FoA to be rather over-rated, its a great choice for Anomen/Viconia but I wouldn't go out of the way to include it in a party.
If you really want to make use of it why not give it to Korgan to use in his off hand and simply not bother assembling Crom Faeyr (which will give you more strength enhancing items to distribute.)

[fable]

That's the problem with short swords: like other weapon types in SoA, there seems to be an imbalance in the Really Good Stuff. I would expect a short sword to do less damange than a halberd (who wouldn't?), but it stands to reason somebody would magic up a short sword that's very potent at some point--perhaps a halfling enchanter--given that not everybody wants or needs something which does great physical damage. That and great magical damage are not necessarily correlative, IMO.

Ideally, there should be a mod that adds well-enchanted weapons of neglected weapon types, without creating munchkin gear. Don't know if such exists.

[Ian Kognitow]

Actually, there is a mod for that:

Underrepresented Items Mod


I only played with it once and don't really remember all that's there but you might find it entertaining.

[Ian Kognitow]

I personally wouldn't bother with short swords, they're less damaging, and while versatile there aren't that many short-swords that prove useful at higher levels.

But then, what hammers do people really use other than Crom or Axes other than AoE at high-levels? I'd say that the Short Sword of the Mask +5 is a fine enough weapon for a character that is best suited for ranged combat anyway. Besides, much of the extra power will ultimately come from strength modifiers rather than just the weapon. Mazzy can still do +20 hits with her short swords with a good potion in her. I guess just from a role-playing aspect I tend to like the versatility over the pure power, and think it's generally fun to have the power level scale upwards over the course of the game rather than, say, getting Celestial Fury and FoA early in Chapter 2 and never dropping them.

As for FoA, I too think that it is a bit overrated (though have been coming around to it more in recent games), but had mentioned it only because it seemed cool to dual wield with Sword of Avoreen to have two weapons with the very-useful Slow ability.

[fable]

Actually, there is a mod for that:

Underrepresented Items Mod


I only played with it once and don't really remember all that's there but you might find it entertaining.

I'd forgotten about that one: never used it. According to the readme, there are at least 2 new short swords, though the way one is described, Lolth's Cruel Sting, does not lead me initially to think it's going to do magical damage right up there with things called XYZ of Fiery Blight, or Flaming Burst XYZ of Disruption. But hey, it's something, so I'll probably try it on my next run through. Thanks for remembering it.

[Raven_Song]

But then, what hammers do people really use other than Crom or Axes other than AoE at high-levels. I'd say that the Short Sword of the Mask +5 is a fine enough weapon for a character that is best suited for ranged combat anyway.

Why is Mazzy best suited for ranged combat? She has the stats and potential to excel as both ranged and melee attacker, so why not make the most of it. She might, at the beginning of the game be better suited to sniping, but by the end, and certainly during ToB, she will certainly be the equal of any of the other tanks (surpassing a few), and will be more beneficial engaging in melee.

You are right of course, most players do only make use of one particular weapon at higher levels, I suppose its just that given the choices available to Mazzy, grand-mastery in any style of weapon, I don't see the Short Sword of Mask as being that great to aspire to.

Out of curiosity would you be recommending the Short Sword of Mask to Minsc, Sarevok, Keldorn, Korgan or a custom made fighter?

I guess just from a role-playing aspect I tend to like the versatility over the pure power, and think it's generally fun to have the power level scale upwards over the course of the game rather than, say, getting Celestial Fury and FoA early in Chapter 2 and never dropping them.

Personally I prefer weapons that kill enemies in the quickest time.

I find short swords less appealing because, IMHO, to make the most of them you have to remember to make use of their special abilities, which in the heat of batte is quite easy to forget to do (especially when you've forget to change from the default script and Jan wonders off to engage a pack of vampires single-handedly).

As for your comment about items gradually increasing in power, I agree totally, that's why I like halberds, they gradually increase in power throughout the game many of the more powerful versions are not available until The Underdark (or later).

I'd forgotten about that one: never used it. According to the readme, there are at least 2 new short swords, though the way one is described, Lolth's Cruel Sting, does not lead me initially to think it's going to do magical damage right up there with things called XYZ of Fiery Blight, or Flaming Burst XYZ of Disruption.

If I remember correctly it adds items from the Icewind Dale games. Lolth's Cruel Sting is from IWD2 (Hof mode)it grants immunity to Web and some % of poisoning and webbing a target.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Wow, didn't expect so many replies in the time it took me to get some sleep, anyway:

@Ian: melee heavy........... thats almost an insult I love mages, just trying out new npc combos as well as my first druid. Last time around I had 2.5 mages 1(multiclass) and I had all the arcane power I could ever want.

You are right of course, most players do only make use of one particular weapon at higher levels, I suppose its just that given the choices available to Mazzy, grand-mastery in any style of weapon, I don't see the Short Sword of Mask as being that great to aspire to.

I completely agree, short sword of the mask isn't something to aspire to which is the politicly correct way of saying it sucks...... alot ... at least compared to the other stuff available.
On this note she only has 1 * in short swords. If she already came with *** or **** a case could be made, just by the fact that it would take forever to get anything else, but as it is......

I picked up mazzy straight out of chateau Irenicus to get her at level 8 so I actually could build her up myself (mostly) . One thing I forgot to mention is that she WILL be using Gesen's in some situations. her Grandmastery in short bows will definitly not go to waste.

still no concencus I see as to which combos will make her a better tank

[Ian Kognitow]

Why is Mazzy best suited for ranged combat? She has the stats and potential to excel as both ranged and melee attacker, so why not make the most of it. She might, at the beginning of the game be better suited to sniping, but by the end, and certainly during ToB, she will certainly be the equal of any of the other tanks (surpassing a few), and will be more beneficial engaging in melee.

Well, that may be true, but considering that she *does* start with grandmastery in short bows and needs to have her strength supplemented more than other characters, it makes sense to me, at least without adding in other modded NPCs, to keep her primarily as a ranged character. Particularly when there are more naturally-inclined melee types like Keldorn, Sarevok, and Korgan around in abundance, for party balance, if nothing else, I see Mazzy best suited for ranged combat. Does this make it not possible for her to be a formidable melee combatant? Certainly not; but just as I wouldn't readily have Korgan throwing darts or using staves, I tend to work off the already set proficiencies as much as possible.

Would I recommend Short Sword of the Mask to Korgan or Minsc or Keldorn? Probably not. But I wouldn't train Sarevok in Axes or Maces either, even though there are lots of good ones. (As far as custom-fighters, I'm actually one of the goofy long-sword fans, but I imagine you would be repelled by that notion as well.) Moreover, particularly since it *does* take Mazzy some time to gain enough levels to be a big-time melee fighter, I prefer the kind of versatility the short swords bring over the Halberds. While maximum damage--as you say, kill in the quickest time--is certainly a viable strategy, it doesn't do a lot of good if you're going down all the time as well. Sometime you need to buy some time for yourself--and I quite like the options of Mazzy getting a free Mirror Image (Ilbratha), Free Action (Arbane's), slow on hit (her own Avoreen sword), and entangle/level drain (Mask) to just the extra damage you might get with stuff like Dragon's Bane or Dragon's Breath. I suppose Blackmist is pretty spiffy but I'd reckon that most parties with Mazzy aren't going to do the thing required to get it.

I find short swords less appealing because, IMHO, to make the most of them you have to remember to make use of their special abilities, which in the heat of battle is quite easy to forget to do

Actually, I think the only one that needs activation is Ilbratha for the mirror image. But then I've found that not *too* hard to remember since the mages in my party have to throw on their own as well. Some of the bows have special things to activate, but that's a different story.

[Ian Kognitow]

I completely agree, short sword of the mask isn't something to aspire to which is the politicly correct way of saying it sucks...... alot ... at least compared to the other stuff available.
On this note she only has 1 * in short swords. If she already came with *** or **** a case could be made, just by the fact that it would take forever to get anything else, but as it is......

Errm. Actually she does start with three stars in short sword. Or, so says this site at least, and I seem to remember the same. Perhaps there is a difference in proficiencies from when you pick her up??? Ok, yeah, if she only has one, you may be better off going with something else. Can I interest you in Long Swords?

Anyway, sure, if you're looking at best weapon per weapon class, Ravager beats up on the Short Sword of the Mask. Still, through SoA, I personally like the special advantages stuff like Ilbratha, Avoreen, and Arbane's would bring over the likes of Dragon's Breath and The Wave. Drink a Storm Giant potion for the extra damage. Oh, and as for ToB, again, having a really good archer with HLA's is vicious and I absolutely would want her on the bow as much as possible. It would be different if I had no other fighters, but with a Paladin and Korgan, melee is rather well handled in your case. Ever plug 10 arrows of biting into someone in a single round?

[Raven_Song]

@Jedi

On this note she only has 1 * in short swords. If she already came with *** or **** a case could be made, just by the fact that it would take forever to get anything else, but as it is......

If you install the TOB STyle NPC component of the G3 TWeak, NPC's always spawn at their intial level, meaning you never have to worry about proficiencies.

@ Ian

Particularly when there are more naturally-inclined melee types like Keldorn, Sarevok, and Korgan around in abundance, for party balance, if nothing else, I see Mazzy best suited for ranged combat.

That's probably why are perepctives on Mazzy are different, Mazzy is one of the few melee types in the game that I actually like, and will take. I also tend to player caster heavy parties, so I can't really afford to have her sitting back and firing arrows. Early in the game its less of a problem, and Mazzy + Tuigan Short Bow = raining death, but when things start getting a bit tougher I generally can't spare her.

I'm actually one of the goofy long-sword fans, but I imagine you would be repelled by that notion as well

No, I actually mnage to find a use for more longswords. From my days of playing bard protagonists I seem to recall making a fair bit of use of the Blade of Roses, Daystar, Blackrazor, Dragon Slayer, Ras and The Eqaulizer

[fable]

If you install the TOB STyle NPC component of the G3 TWeak, NPC's always spawn at their intial level, meaning you never have to worry about proficiencies.

G3 Tweak is no longer available. The G3 team has superceded it with the BG2 Tweakpack. Just FYI, and for anybody who might seek out the G3 Tweak.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

I'll be using her as an archer anyway (at least part time) since she already has the ***** and I have nobody else to use gesen's. the thing is she is already maxed out in terms of ranged attack so even if I use her as a ranged archer full time, the question remains where to put the other *'s

What kind of long sword options does she have ?? I'm not really familiar with which ones are effective is there anything better than FoA +DoE ??

sigh... I wanted this thread to narrow my choices and instead I get a wrench thrown into the equation (long swords)

edit I just cheked she has ***** in short bows and * in short swords

[Raven_Song]

G3 Tweak is no longer available. The G3 team has superceded it with the BG2 Tweakpack. Just FYI, and for anybody who might seek out the G3 Tweak.

Yeah my bad - I do actually know this, and have BGII tweak pack installed.
Must be getting forgetful in my old age.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

wierd I have G3 tweak pack, I used it to make druid leveling more "user freindly" ie druid progress as clerics do


oops my bad it is indeed baldurs gate 2 tweak pack but the icon is G3 wonder if that makes any diffrence

[fable]

Stick on subject, guys: Mazzy's equipment. We can always discuss the latest, greatest mods elsewhere, and such a topic is probably needed at this point.

[Silvanerian]

Weapons for Mazzy

Hm.. personally, I'd give her a str item and dual sword shorts.

I'd go with Arbane's and Kundane. That way you get 5 attacks per round, immunity to any type of hold (including stun from mages).

Since she already has "courage" (resist fear) all you need is a helm against charm and Mazzy is more or less invulnerable to any disabling spell (except for chaos/confusion, but those don't give a penalty to saves I believe, and she has good saves being a halfling).

If you give her a strength enhancing item, you'll see the little lady deal out more damage per round than your paladin until he gets whirlwind ; )


Keep a higher enchanted weapon in the second slot for those monsters that need better than +2 enchantment (those are few though).


Edit:
PS: put 2 stars in dual wield asap, as you then don't get a penalty with your main hand. Or, build up short sword to 5 first and then only start dual wielding when you have the 2 stars.

PPS: This build is doable early on in the game - chapter 2/3 actually, which is an extra bonus, as that's were you need it most.

[Raven_Song]

Edit:
PS: put 2 stars in dual wield asap, as you then don't get a penalty with your main hand. Or, build up short sword to 5 first and then only start dual wielding when you have the 2 stars.

PPS: This build is doable early on in the game - chapter 2/3 actually, which is an extra bonus, as that's were you need it most.

I'm a little confused which build is doable early in the game?

(Also it might be worth considering that Chapter 2 is, relatively short for some people, for others its extremely long, depending on how eager they are to get to ... well you know where.)

If starting with a smaller number of stars in short swords and adding ** to two weapon fighting, ok, although even then it would really depend at what level Mazzy spawned at. If she began with *** in short swords, certainly if only * not really as by the time she say allocates her next 3 proficiencies, another * in SS and ** in TWF she could have **** in any 2 handed-weapon. So its not really any more advantageous than another combination.

If you are talking about building her up to ***** in SS, then add **, I really don't see the advantage.

[Celacena]

I rarely include Mazzy in the party, but reading this thread a few days back made me think I would give her a try-out again.

I have given her the tuigian bow (extra shots) for ranged attacks plus Azuredge - to destroy undead - plus short sword of backstabbing (+3) for scrapping plus let her keep her own s-sword. I have given her ankheg-plate mail because I had just had it made up and the girdle of hill-giant strength. she does have a halberd available, but the extra benefits of her skill in short-sword make that a better choice IMO.
I gave her 3 types of magic arrows +2, fire and ?biting - she seemed to get a few critical hits in when attacking from range.

I had Anomen as the primary melee warrior, although when fighting undead, I turned off party AI and had him and Viconia both turning whilst mazzy and the PC hacked at them - probably the easiest I have ever done the temple ruins. (the clerics are in the region of lvl 15 and Anomen has just been asked to go for his test).

ripe gorgonzola though it may be, I had yoshimo lay traps and the mage drop a couple of cloudkill to make a killing zone for the shadow dragon then called it out - in boots of speed I take v little CK damage myself and the dragon chases me, chokes, then stumbles into Yoshimo's traps (he's about lvl 15). Mazzy is on hand to stick an arrow in its eye and Jaheira lets loose an insect plague - one dead dragon - hit so hard he doesn't get a chance to heal - and that to me is how to kill an angry dragon - deal damage and use insect plague to cause 'casting failure' to prevent the all-important heal. insect plague sometimes works for high level mages too and to make sure, I've found that the cleric spell 'silence' rather inhibits anybody without vocalise.