Advices on fighter's hla

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:37 am

I made a quick research and found only threads like "Mages pwns joo with improved acalarity, no way your ww can hit me blablabla" ...

Then I decided to start a new thread, so we can discuss about the fighter's hla. Personally, when I start a new Fighter type character, I have a hard time choosing anything else than Greater ww... I have tried Smite, Greater deathblow and Assassination (as mutliclassed Fighter-thief) and never found them quite as effective as Greater ww!

Smite and G-deathblow work for one more round, but I seems to kill way faster with Greater ww on. So I tend to use few Hardiness with a bunch of Greater ww on my fighters... heh. As a pally, i choose a couple of summon deva too, as it come handy in many situations, even when you have a mage with summon planetars: more of those nasty angels never hurt so far.

I would like to know what you guys think about the fighter's hla and some arguments about it. I enjoy this forum and even if I don't post much

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:40 pm

Select 1 or 2 Hardinesses, and the rest on GWW.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:29 pm

I like the one that knocks the opponent back and stuns them (can't remember which one it is) I have a lot of success with that one. I used it on Gromnir after a minor whirlwind and it just blew him across the screen:laugh: . I think all of the HLAs need a bit of practice to get good with them.

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:56 pm

@Klorox Yea, thats what I used to do if you read my post

@Pellinore That would be smite, it seems to do ok, but personally, I still think Gww to be better... Anyone disagree? Some usefull uses of another hla perhaps?

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:41 am

I found the one that knocks people back really sucky since it is stopped by anything with a helmet (90% of the game) I'd be intrested in learning the uses of the other offensive fighter HLA's besides GWW

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:52 am

Well, you have to take whirlwind b4 you take GWW so thats in there...useful. As for the HLA (smite?) not working on enemies with helmets...It worked for me on Gromnir and a couple other fighter types with helmets. I am looking forward to my F/T getting these HLAs to see if they work with backstabs...:mischief:

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:54 am

If you are dualwielding with belm or kundane in your off-hand you just need "improved haste" to gain 9 attacks per round for 20 rounds, so I never used GWW in my game.

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:28 pm

I don't know about that, each time I used Gww, i seems to attack way faster ... Maybe on paper Improved Haste + Belm = same number of attacks as Gww, but I don't think it's actually the same in the game! Anyway, its nice to Gww on the spot instead of a combat preparation involving Improved Haste, i'm not a huge fan of "over-buffing" before each fight..

I would prefer a discussion about the fighter's hla, not about some spells

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:02 pm

kmonster wrote:If you are dualwielding with belm or kundane in your off-hand you just need "improved haste" to gain 9 attacks per round for 20 rounds, so I never used GWW in my game.

Yeah, but if you equip a shield and use GWW, you're not wasting half of those attacks with a crappy off-hand weapon (those weapons are great normally as off-handers, but stink when using GWW).

I guess it's up to you as to what is better: a spell or a HLA.

BTW, the rest of the Fighter HLAs aren't that good IMO, which is why I choose GWW so much.

BTW, since you're using a F/T, get a bunch of traps man! They're very interesting HLAs.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:26 am

no matter what, your restricted to 1 attack per round with your offhand weapon so that's not really an issue, which is why belm + anything is so popular. also you can use crom in the offhand and still get 7 attacks now is it better to have 7 attacks with one of the other HLA's or 10 ?? I prefer GWW because of bad expieriences with smite everybody seems to have a helmet

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:44 am

Enabling GWW takes time, time my fighter prefers to use for killing instead of waiting.

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:43 pm

well, I guess my intention was not properly formulated when I started the thread.

I asked for opinions concerning the fighter's hla, between them. This discussion lead nowhere, I mean cmon, "it takes time to enable Gww", it doesn't even have a casting time delay...

As a starting point, the fighter's hla pool is the fallowing: ww, Gww, Deathblow, Greater Deathblow, Resist magic, Hardiness, Power attack, critical strike, smite and war cry.

ww, deathblow and power attack are all weaker than Gww, GDeathblow and critical attack/smite. So let's exlude them right now. Oh, warcry and Resist magic are rather weak options too, I mean I won't even talk about warcry and resist magic last for only four rounds, if you have at least one cleric, you have a way better option in the magic resistance spell, which last 3 rounds, +1 round per level of the caster, so it easily last for 23+ rounds in TOB.

So it leaves us with Gww, G-Deathblow, Hardiness, Critical strike/smite (which you can choose only once) and Summon deva for pally.

Now the question -- As a maximum level fighter, what type of mix do you end up using? Same for a paladin (summon deva is a good hla, I think most of us use some of them). Thx for your answers.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:23 pm

kmonster wrote:Enabling GWW takes time, time my fighter prefers to use for killing instead of waiting.

Not as long as it takes to cast "Improved Haste"

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:55 pm

But "improved haste" can be cast before battle, so it doesn't use up valuable combat time. And the spell lasts for twenty rounds while GWW lasts only for 1 round. Now back to the topic:

A big advantadge of hardiness is that it lasts longer and can therefore be enabled before combat.
If you don't dualwield GWW is obviously the best feat. Another advantadge is that it can give 10 instead of 1 attacks/rounds even with weapon types you aren't proficient with, can be quite useful if you forgot to get proficient in a blunt weapon or didn't find a +4 weapon you are proficient in.

I'd personally take all HLAs just to to be able to use everything, fighters gets 21 HLAs until level 40, none is neccessary and using one HLA 20 times in a row sounds boring.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:33 pm

But most fights don't last more than 1 or 2 uses of GWW.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:35 pm

There are only three abilities that I'd choose from the fighter pool: Resist Magic, Hardiness, Whirlwind (as a prerequisite, so one point) and Greater Whirlwind.

I like Improved Haste more than Greater Whirlwind, as I'm usually dual wielding and depending on the class and situation, it's more efficient to use it before combat as after Greater Whirlwind you have a round delay before you can do anything else.

Greater Whirlwind however, as stated before, does provide great attack speed for shield users. There are some battles where it's beneficial to have a shield, especially a nice one that gives you resistances.

The resistance is only there as an "In case of emergency" as I never use Carsomyr or Purifier on anything that can backstab, dualed or multiclassed with a fighter.

Hardiness does have a great duration and the 40% resistance helps a lot... in some cases.

The other abilities are either too limited or too weak to be used in ToB.

As for Smite, I'll stick with my Staff of the Ram +6.

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:51 pm

Excellent post Crenshibon, I agree. I wanted some opinions on this, because I wasn't quite sure as I have never really used anything else..

Nobody came with strong points regarding G deathblow or critical strike / smite, so I will stick to Gww and hardiness as a fighter.

I would also like to know what you guys think about the summon deva Hla of the Paladin. I do like it because you dont need to memorize anything and it provide a strong summon, which can help the party in combat. But, Planetars are obviously superior than their cleric's spell counterpart, so do you guys bother take somme of these as a Pally?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:36 pm

Deathblow and Greater Deathblow abilities automatically kill anything below tenth and twelfth levels, respectively. This is great in SoA but useless in ToB. The only thing I have found to be affected by it are mephits and orcs.

Power attack and Critical strike have good descriptions, but I do not remember how effectively they working within the game, so I'll comment on thm after some testing.

The Deva, if I am correct, is different from a Planetar by having fewer spells. I think it's worth to put a point in it for support as well as a healer and buffer, especially for paladin types that are soloing. There is no need to have more than a point in that ability.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:08 pm

What do you think of power attack (the one that stuns people @ -4 save penalty)

I've givin it to dual wielders but I have had no chance to test it out;
on paper Jaheira wielding Belm + spectral brand with improved haste has 9 attacks per round therefore within 2 rounds she has 18 attacks thats a good chance someone including a boss will roll a 1 and auto fail his save and be stunned. On paper this looks like a good ability vs bosses so I ask if any of you have expierience with it

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:01 pm

I just tested out Power Attack and Critical Strike.

For some reason I couldn't get ANY Critical Hits with Critical Strike, but Power Attack stuns as intended. It could be a worthy investment but is easily nulled by the Ring of Free Action.