Khelgar (SPOILER)

De_Priester · Post by **De_Priester** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:26 am

So I turned him into a Monk....

Anyone else feel like turning him into a monk is a waste due to his very poor wisdom?

Can he be turned into a good monk if so what kind of gear and feats should I give him?

I am starting a new game soon and I'm wondering if I should keep him a fighter or turn him into a monk but the last time I turned him into one he didn't improve.

Kendrosm · Post by **Kendrosm** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:29 pm

On my next go-round, I may very well keep him as a fighter. Having him go monk was interesting for the RP and the quest stuff, but overall he's more effective as a pure fighter.

Not to say he doesn't kick a$$ as a monk... he just kicks more of it as a fighter.

Acleacius · Post by **Acleacius** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:24 am

Actually Monks don't even start kicking A until 15 or higher but you must make sure he gets a 15 Dex, which iir gets him the spinning back kick and then Wis as high as possible.
Instead of raising his Strength as a Fighter, I chose to up his Dex and Wis.
His Flurry of Blows, Magic and other Resistances, even healing (iir) is what will keep him alive when other fighters die.
With FoBs and Haste he does maybe 5 attacks around.

De_Priester · Post by **De_Priester** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:41 am

Acleacius wrote:Actually Monks don't even start kicking A until 15 or higher but you must make sure he gets a 15 Dex, which iir gets him the spinning back kick and then Wis as high as possible.
Instead of raising his Strength as a Fighter, I chose to up his Dex and Wis.
His Flurry of Blows, Magic and other Resistances, even healing (iir) is what will keep him alive when other fighters die.
With FoBs and Haste he does maybe 5 attacks around.

Ehrm doesn't he start with 10 wisdom as soon as you convert him into a monk? Or does he keep the points you gave him as a fighter?

I figured that when he converts into a monk he just gets the base stats he has as a lvl 1 fighter......

Ningengirai · Post by **Ningengirai** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:55 am

De_Priester wrote:Ehrm doesn't he start with 10 wisdom as soon as you convert him into a monk? Or does he keep the points you gave him as a fighter?

I figured that when he converts into a monk he just gets the base stats he has as a lvl 1 fighter......

He didn't in my game, and I'm patched to 1.03. It did make playing him as a monk a bit useless because he had about 18-20 Strength and a whole 8 or so of Wisdom. Next time, I'll definitely keep him a fighter.

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:05 am

If you are more than level 16, than it definitely worths it. He can be a kickass monk, and actually he does not need any wisdom. He had better ac than as a fighter this way (there are a lot of monk only items which give armor ac and even dodge modifier). Not mentioning his great no. of attacks and devastating damage. I only gave him points at level ups to strength, so he got +9 str by the end of the game. Also, he gets imp. evasion and magic resistance, which describes his purpose: click on an enemy mage and forget him, blast him with fireballs, cones of cold, etc. Nice one in my oppinion.

De_Priester · Post by **De_Priester** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:40 am

So let me get this straight, the points you give him as a fighter stay with him after converting into a monk? So in other words if I gave him say 3 points into wisdom they will still be there once I turn him into a monk? Now he has 10 wisdom to start with but that way he would have 13?

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:31 am

Yes, they stay. At least with the vanilla game and patch 103.

De_Priester · Post by **De_Priester** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:32 am

So what kind of gear should I keep for him?

Acleacius · Post by **Acleacius** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:57 am

Well the Parapet of Wisdom +4 is easy to find, in the course of your travels I get better robes for him, think Robe of the Hindfist is pretty high found a +4 (at least iir) which only negitive is -1 to hearing (or something minor).
With all the merchants seems I remember seeing a +2 Monk robe very early, before he became a Monk, so probably chapter 1, Monk boot and tons of choices for fist/gauntlets,, make a quick trip to all your available merchants.

The most common thing I hear is, Khelgar was the last one standing at the final battle, as he has so much resistance, dodge and defensive moves he can run around healing while he blocks.

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:39 am

De_Priester wrote:So what kind of gear should I keep for him?

Amulet of natural armour, gauntlet of Ironfist, and things like these. And do not forget to invite the monk in your castle, not the priest. They have the best gear for monks.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:12 am

Post removed. While the title of this thread is pretty generic, De Priester's post is the first one, and the one that asks the questions others should answer. Anybody else's questions should go in a new thread, assuming the answers aren't already available in our forum database.

Azalnubizar · Post by **Azalnubizar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:10 am

I left him a fighter as well... since I figured that a monk with poor wisdom & dex is a better fighter... and I have him equipped as a fighter, so I could throw all his equipment away and buy new one?

I do not really believe, that monks are basically more powerful than fighters (even in high levels). They do get special abilities, but most of these can be given to fighters as well...

Kelgar can wear a cloak of spell resistance, a ring of improved evasion and with the "able learner"-feat might even get enough points in "use magic device" to wear monk-boots (+x dodge AC) - which is the only worthwhile monk equipment... allthewhile he can still wear plate armor (good idea without dex), wall shield and so on...

I would recommend leaving him as fighter except for the roleplaying value of it

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:34 am

Yes, why not? When I finished the game I had around 1,5-2 millions and I did not even sell anything in chapter 3. There are a lot of money in the game, and hell, what else do you want to do with it?
Monks are more powerful than fighters. Period. The only thing they miss is hp (they have 40 hps less by level 20) and some feats. But. Their attack bonus is better (they have only -2 for every attack after the first one, not -5/-10/-15 like the fighter) overall, their ac maches the fighter's (with the proper equipment that is: say, you have 8+5 ac from your plate and 3+5 from your shield, monks get +4 natural ac for levelling, at least +3 from tumble - this is only the margin between a fighter's cross class tumble value and a monk's tumble value (modified by armor check penalty of course) - another +5 from their robe and again +5 from boots and some more from wis or dex), their base damage is 1,5 times better than the fighters (d20 vs. 2d6-in this case the fighter will have much lower ac than the monk, since he has a 2h weapon), immune to poison, diseases, mind spells and hell, when will a fighter have normal magic resistance? (yeah, he can have around 14 or so, which is enough to stop a frost ray of a child sorcerer but nothing more). And I didn't mention stunning fist, shivering palm, etc. Saving throws are waaaay higher than the fighter's (hehe, good luck with imp. evasion ring and a base reflex save of 6). The main problem with fighters is that they could be really fine, if - let's say - they could wear 4 rings, 2 amulets, 3 cloaks and so on. I think you got it.
And boots are not the only worthwhile monk equipment. What about grainstone belt? Not mentioning that with the gloves a monk can always have the cutting edge, and deal the most appropiate elemental damage to an enemy, while getting a proper weapon of which a fighter is specialised in and deals different elemental damage is really a question of luck.

But of course if you can't play a monk right it will surely be weaker than a fighter...

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:09 pm

zamiel wrote:Their attack bonus is better (they have only -2 for every attack after the first one, not -5/-10/-15 like the fighter) overall,

Untrue. They still progress exactly like every other class in the additional attacks gained through a high BAB. Monks simply gain the Flurry of Blows ability, which allows them to gain, at 11th level or higher +2 additional attacks at their BAB+ any modifiers.

De_Priester · Post by **De_Priester** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:47 am

I am going to try and make a good monk out of him by giving him lot's of wisdom while he is a fighter and perhaps one point of dexterity but that can probably be gained by items.

Do his feats as a fighter remain with him as a monk?

I have no idea how to make a good monk so what kind of feats should I give him when I turn him into one?

I'll wait till he's level 16 before making him a monk, hopefully that way I can get him up to 7 more points of wisdom, or should I do one point into dexterity and the rest into wisdom?

And should he be using kama/kukri's or just his fists?