Karoug not impressed by ranger/cleric - mild spoilers

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:00 pm

I'm soloing a ranger/cleric through BG. I'm on werewoof island and I was about to kick Karoug's hairy behind. The weapons that I've found cannot be used by my r/c, but they are the only weapons that'll kill Karoug!
Can anyone come up with a solution? There isn't a cleric spell available to me (level 1-4) that make a difference. Summons are eaten whole.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:25 pm

I can't remember all of Karoug's immunities, but sometimes in tough situations like this, I make my character invulnerable to fire damage (scrolls, potions, Ring of Fire Resistance) and blast the place with the Necklace of Missiles. I remember killing most of the werewolves that way on one of my adventures.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:41 pm

I think the Warhammer you find on that island (+1/+4 vs. Giants) will hurt him.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:20 pm

...have you tried the spell 'Flame Blade'?

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:35 pm

Klorox wrote:I think the Warhammer you find on that island (+1/+4 vs. Giants) will hurt him.

Well, he's not a giant; he's a werewolf.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:11 pm

Galuf the Dwarf wrote:Well, he's not a giant; he's a werewolf.

But it does count as a +4 weapon, so will hit creatures that need +3 or better to hit.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:18 pm

galraen wrote:But it does count as a +4 weapon, so will hit creatures that need +3 or better to hit.

How sure are you of this? Have you tested it? Seen accounts of it hitting non-ogre that require +2 or +3 weapons?

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:47 am

Why not just try it? You can always go away and heal yourself and ask again if it doesn't work.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:14 pm

Galuf the Dwarf wrote:How sure are you of this? Have you tested it? Seen accounts of it hitting non-ogre that require +2 or +3 weapons?

I know it'll hit Kangaax in BG2 (who requires a +4 weapon to hit him), but I'm not sure if the same rules apply in BG1.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:32 am

I'll try the warhammer - although I'll have to cheat a little to use it. Ranger/clerics can't identify stuff

.

@VD: Defending myself isn't too much of a problem, as long as my buff spells and potions hold out. And I can wipe the floor with the other werewoofs; it's just Karoug that I can't hurt. The only thing that does is my wand of MM, but on top of everything Karoug regenerates too - and fast!

I haven't tried the flameblade spell yet, but I guess that, even if it does hurt K., it won't do damage fast enough.

I'll report back after I've tried your suggestions. I'll still appreciate other solutions though.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:51 am

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with Karough being so unkillable, but I play BGTutu. Maybe it's affecting him?
The warhammer and the flameblade spell don't work. I got a bit frustrated so I SK-ed in Crom Faeyr and Runehammer +5. Overkill, I thought. But believe it or not, they won't hurt him either!:speech:
I wouldn't mind leaving Karoug alone, but I won't be leaving the island unless I kill him.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:24 pm

I just used Infinity Explorer to examine Karoug. When you first meet him (KAROUG), he's more of a prop than a character. I don't think you're supposed to be able to kill him before you talk to him. He doesn't regenerate, but he has 600 hit points (maybe more if the Constitution bonus applies) and Armor Class -10. All of his saving throws are 2, and he has 100% resistance to Magic and immunity to normal weapons. After you talk to him, he transforms into a greater wolfwere (WOLFWEGR). He must be the only greater wolfwere in BG1 unless all greater wolfweres have the baby Peladan and the Cloak of the Shield in their inventory. He is almost identical to the standard greater wolfwere of BG2. The only difference is that in BG2, greater wolfweres have 50% resistance to magic instead of zero. If Karoug transformed correctly and if Tutu didn't make any significant changes to greater wolfweres, I don't see reason why he would be impossible to kill (although I never said it would be easy).

AC 2
Hit Points 66
Regenerates (not sure how fast)
Immune to +2 weapons or less
50% resistance to fire, acid, electricity, and cold
saving throws between 5 and 7
50% resistance to magic in BG2 only

In Tutu, if Karoug is a unique greater wolfwere (e.g., one that has special items in his inventory), then it's possible that his attributes are different.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:13 pm

When you enter the last level of Balduran's ship, dialogue starts whether you want it or not so I haven't attacked Karoug before I talked to him.
There's absolutely no hammer or mace in BG1, SoA or ToB that does any damage ("weapon ineffective"). If he's the prop-Karoug with an AC of -10 that might explain a few things.
He's vulnerable to some forms of magic, because so far Magic Missile, Hold Person and Creeping Doom have affected him to some small degree. Flame Blade and Call Lightning don't hurt him at all. He does regenerate though, so that should mean he's not prop-Karoug.
I'll SK my ranger/cleric into a pc that can use the anti-werewoof weapons I found on the island and see what happens.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:37 pm

I did some shapeshifting myself and SK-ed my r/c into a fighter/mage who could use the wolfsbane sword and dagger I found on the island and Karoug went down without too much trouble.
Still, I'd like to beat him 'legally' with the ranger/cleric. I still have no idea how to do that with my current equipment.
I've always thought you could beat BG with any party, but this fight apparently cannot be won without the ability to use blades.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:05 pm

Normally, the message "weapon ineffective" only appears if the weapon lacks the appropriate enchantment or if it causes the wrong kind of damage. Since you said that the only weapons that would hurt him are the silver dagger and the anti-shapeshifter bastard sword, I think that means that only silver weapons can injure him.

I've edited some weapons you can try. The first is Crom Faeyr. The only change I made to it is a "silver" flag. The second weapon is Aegis Fang, which belongs to one of Drizzt's companions. Again, I added a "silver" flag to it and made a few changes such as class limitations, speed factor, proficiency requirement, etc. The third weapon is a war hammer that resembles the modified Aegis Fang in most respects, except that it actually works in BG1:TotSC. (The two other weapons require BG2 resource files.) Unfortunately, I can't edit the item description--I've had that problem with the Infinity Editor Pro for a long time. A well-armored 7th level Cleric/Ranger with a potion of giant strength (or Draw Upon Holy Might), oil of speed, and a +3 silver hammer that does 2d8+3 damage should have no problem at all killing a greater wolfwere.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:57 pm

Karoug VERY impressed this time

There was a big blur of fur, fangs and hammer and a lot of 'ow, ow, not the tail' and then it was over. It may be called 'Aegis2', but I'll forever remember it as 'VonDondu's Victory'. Or something to that effect.
Thanks a lot, VD, I really appreciate it. I couldn't edit a warhammer to save my life

EDIT: I'm keeping the hammer... just in case...

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:21 pm

I'm glad it worked.

I need to remember that lycanthropes can only be hit by silver weapons. Can you think of any other greater wolfweres in BG2?

Also, what does the description for Aegis Fang look like in Tutu? In BG1:TotSC the item description points to some dialogue (apparently Angelo speaking to Shar Teel) and the name of item is "Show me the way", which is actually a pretty cool name for a weapon. When I try to edit an item description, Infinity Engine Editor Pro always gives me an error message and won't let me save the file.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:00 am

VonDondu wrote:Also, what does the description for Aegis Fang look like in Tutu?

I don't have Infinity Editor. I'll try to dl it later today and see what I can find.
As for greater Wolfweres: only Firkaag's dungeon comes to mind.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:22 pm

Hm, I get a lot of error messages after I install the program. I'm not sure where I went wrong but I can't seem to fix it for now.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:44 pm

Coot, I just wanted to know what you see when you look at the item from inside the game and read the description. You know how you click on it in your inventory? That's all I meant.

I don't know if I could give you a tutorial right now on how to use Infinity Engine Editor Pro. I have some stitches in my gums inside my mouth and it's making me climb the walls when the hydrocodone isn't making me forget what I write from one paragraph to the next.

But you need to install the Visual Basic Runtime packages (versions 5 and 6 I think) to make it work, so that might be the problem. If you want to change an item, start the editor twice and use an existing item that has the features you want as a model. The item you're using as a reference will be on one side of the screen and the item you're changing will be on the other side of the screen. It makes things a lot easier.