Quick Cleric/Ranger question

chickenhed · Post by **chickenhed** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:45 am

Hello to all! I have been reading these forums for a while but this is my first time posting. I have ready many a thread on the cleric/ranger. However I have not lately seen a comment on whether or not it was intended or not for the combination to have access to druid spells as well. If this was something that was not intended, and is a bug, I would prefer not to play it. No fun to have everything if it isn't deserved

jefklak · Post by **jefklak** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:24 am

Of course it's a bug

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:38 am

I don't think it's a bug. As far as I know, rangers have access to druid spells, so a cleric/ranger should have access to both cleric and druid spells.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:48 am

Andurbal wrote:I don't think it's a bug. As far as I know, rangers have access to druid spells, so a cleric/ranger should have access to both cleric and druid spells.

But a ranger only have access to level 3 and below druid spells. So a ranger/cleric should only have access to level 3 and below druid spells as well.

Bug.

chickenhed · Post by **chickenhed** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:41 am

Yeah.... I thought it was probably a bug. Thank you for the info!

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:14 pm

if you think about it a ranger/cleric would lead the same lifestyle as a druid. he's basicly a ranger whose alot more devoted to mastering divine magic(think of an elven priest who while being a priest still has a profound connection to nature), and as such I can't see why he wouldn't have access to level 7 druid spells eventually. Another thing is that if a cleric/ranger wasn't meant to have his druid spells, bioware would have fixed it by now in one of the patches. this would be a pretty major bug if it was not intended to be, and would be noticed and acted upon rather quickly.

chickenhed · Post by **chickenhed** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:09 pm

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:if you think about it a ranger/cleric would lead the same lifestyle as a druid. he's basicly a ranger whose alot more devoted to mastering divine magic(think of an elven priest who while being a priest still has a profound connection to nature), and as such I can't see why he wouldn't have access to level 7 druid spells eventually. Another thing is that if a cleric/ranger wasn't meant to have his druid spells, bioware would have fixed it by now in one of the patches. this would be a pretty major bug if it was not intended to be, and would be noticed and acted upon rather quickly.

While I agree that one should assume that if it was a major bug, bioware would have fixed it, I thought the same thing for the amulet of power. Something that seems very obvious that it should be available to classes like the ranger and paladin, was not. And was never fixed either. I'd love to play a ranger/cleric. But not if it was an unintentional mistake.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:20 pm

chickenhed wrote:While I agree that one should assume that if it was a major bug, bioware would have fixed it, I thought the same thing for the amulet of power. Something that seems very obvious that it should be available to classes like the ranger and paladin, was not. And was never fixed either. I'd love to play a ranger/cleric. But not if it was an unintentional mistake.

Uhm... one of my current games has a PC ranger, and she has been quite happily wearing the Amulet of Power since receiving it...

I can't speak for paladins, however.

I don't have any cheat/ease of use types of mods, so I'm not sure what is going on. Unless it is part of the Baldurdash fix pack? Is anybody able to clarify on this?

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure a ranger/cleric being able to cast high level druid spells is no bug. Let's face it, rangers are very closely related to druids, and clerics bear a relationship to druids, it simply makes sense that ranger/clerics can cast druid spells, IMO.

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:21 pm

I don't understand your concern. This game is for your pleasure to enjoy however you see fit. I'm not even sure what your question means. The ranger-cleric mix would not have access to seventh level druid spells (for instance) according to the second edition DnD rules. But that doesn't mean much. There are a multitude of instances where this game differs from the DnD rules. The ranger-cleric is a very powerful character; however, in this game arcane easily is top dog. Pure arcane or mixed-arcane are both more powerful than the ranger-cleric. So, why not play the ranger-cleric if you think that you will enjoy it?

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:23 pm

dragon wench wrote:Uhm... one of my current games has a PC ranger, and she has been quite happily wearing the Amulet of Power since recieving it...
I can't speak for paladins, however..

Paladins can also wear it.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:16 pm

whether or not it's part of PnP 2E rules I'm not sure, but if it makes roleplaying sense and you are legally allowed to do it then why not ??

if you think about his lifestyle, from a role playing perspective he should be allowed to cast high level nature-granted spells. especially since you have to be a half-elf IIRC Elves and half-elves have a very strong connection to nature.

from a balance perspective, he is a powerfull tank, but there are so many more powerfull and cheesy classes that nobody hesitates to use and that are much harder to justify from the roleplaying perspective. Kensai > thieves and mages come to mind. if you're worried about him being too powerfull just look at what you can do with a sorcerer

the C/R seems weak as a kitten in comparison

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:51 pm

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:whether or not it's part of PnP 2E rules I'm not sure,

I'm almost certain... As Onkel Bob stated above, the RC would have up to 3rd level druid spells in PnP 2E.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:16 am

If you want to play a Cleric/Ranger but you don't think they should use the 4th-7th level spells that are supposed to be reserved for Druids, then it's simple: don't use them. I once posted a list of those spells. Just keep them on your "DO NOT USE" list.

Here is the list:
In addition to the usual Cleric spells that may be cast by Good characters, Cleric/Rangers are also able to cast the following Druid spells:

"Acceptable" spells:
1st Level: Entangle
2nd Level: Charm Person or Mammal, Goodberry
3rd Level: Call Lightning, Hold Animal, Summon Insects

"Bugged" spells:
4th Level: Call Woodland Beings
5th Level: Insect Plague, Ironskins, Pixie Dust
6th Level: Conjure Fire Elemental, Dolorous Decay, Fire Seeds
7th Level: Conjure Earth Elemental, Creeping Doom, Nature's Beauty

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:07 am

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:whether or not it's part of PnP 2E rules I'm not sure, but if it makes roleplaying sense and you are legally allowed to do it then why not ??

if you think about his lifestyle, from a role playing perspective he should be allowed to cast high level nature-granted spells. especially since you have to be a half-elf IIRC Elves and half-elves have a very strong connection to nature.

from a balance perspective, he is a powerfull tank, but there are so many more powerfull and cheesy classes that nobody hesitates to use and that are much harder to justify from the roleplaying perspective. Kensai > thieves and mages come to mind. if you're worried about him being too powerfull just look at what you can do with a sorcerer the C/R seems weak as a kitten in comparison

Eh? For me he would be very close to the ultimate Tank.

Edit: Room for improvement: I could make him a human stalker and dual him to cleric at perhaps 13. That would be a freakin' powerhouse...

chickenhed · Post by **chickenhed** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:52 pm

I appreciate the replies. As was stated, I can choose however I wish to play the game. The way I wish to play it is to keep it as close to what I consider "balanced" as possible. I do not believe a ranger getting access to lvl 7 druid spells is balanced if this was not an intended feature of the game.

Uhm... one of my current games has a PC ranger, and she has been quite happily wearing the Amulet of Power since receiving it...
I can't speak for paladins, however.

I don't have any cheat/ease of use types of mods, so I'm not sure what is going on. Unless it is part of the Baldurdash fix pack? Is anybody able to clarify on this?

I can verify it. Baldurdash fixes an issue with the orignal game where warriors that have acces to spells, could not use the item when they should.

Baldurdash - BG2 Bugfixes

"Fixes the confirmed usabilities for this item, allowing Rangers and Paladins to use it, as all spellcasters are entitled to use it, and disallowing Monks and Barbarians from it"

So if you have baldurdash installed, it does in fact fix this problem.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:46 pm

@Onkel Bob a R/C being the ultimate tank ???? I hope that was intended as a joke

Fighter/Cleric is at the very least comparable. You essentially lack nature's beauty and Insect plauge (not too important b/c you'll be fighting), for that you get more levels 250k as opposed to 300k per "tank" level. (more hLA's), and you have no weapon restrictions, so you can use any weapon. unfortunatly you miss out on Stoneskin. like I said these two classes are comparale.

now for something that totally kills an R/C: the Fighter/Mage

. By 4 million exp you'll have a few level 9 spells at your disposal. I'm not going to list all the advantages of a mage with 4 million exp, thats a topic for a new thread.

Disadvantage: lacks DuHM, Protection from evil radius 10, armour of faith.

Advantages:

1 of very many from the mage spells: chain contingency 3x Project Image on self, upon seeing enemy. - triples the fun with no risk to you

you'll have more fighter levels = more HLA's

Planetars, Mordy swords.

mage buffs: improved haste, PfMW, stone skin, many many other excellent offensive spells

more racial options, elves will have an extra 1 dex (nice）

in summary, just of the top of my head a F/M >>>> R/C.

Edit: A Stalker>Cleric would be alot worse than a C/R since your stuck with only a clerics lame HLA's

Toxeus · Post by **Toxeus** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:07 am

Jedi_Sauraus wrote: Fighter/Cleric is at the very least comparable ... and you have no weapon restrictions, so you can use any weapon.

Fighter/Cleric and Ranger/Cleric have same weapon restrictions

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:58 am

Actually after doing some thinking on it I'd say that an ultimate tank for my purposes could be something like a beserker dualled to druid. Now if he could dual to shapeshifter then it'd be really fun...

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:52 pm

In fact, a cleric-ranger is alot more potent in combat then a Fighter-Cleric, I mean, the 1st one got those iron skins...

Toxeus · Post by **Toxeus** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:31 am

Agree. C/R is better than F/C only because of ironskin, and fighter's better THACO or more HLA's mean nothing. Access to all druid spells is nice also

In my opinion F/C < C/R << F/M