F/D multi or Kensai/druid dual?

[chickenhed]

I hate asking "which is more powerful" but I have to admit this time that is exactly what I'm asking

With ToB installed, will a lvl 12 kensai dualled to a druid be more powerful than a fighter/druid multiclass? Or the other way around.

Any input would be awesome.

[Lancelot122]

The multiclass is way stronger with TOB installed, because you have access to the fighter's HLA instead of only those of the druid class. Dual class is only usefull in a SOA only game. Hope this help,

Lance

[kmonster]

I agree with Lancelot122.

12 is a bad level for dualclassing anyway. Dualclassing at level 9 is better.
The dualing period is shorter and even when it's over you'll still have 750,000 more XP which can be several druid levels.
Even if you reach the cap you'll only have gained +1 thac0, damage, speed factor and 1 HP and lost a HLA for it.
If you really want to dual late then wait until level 13 for the extra half attack.

[chickenhed]

I agree with Lancelot122.

12 is a bad level for dualclassing anyway. Dualclassing at level 9 is better.
The dualing period is shorter and even when it's over you'll still have 750,000 more XP which can be several druid levels.
Even if you reach the cap you'll only have gained +1 thac0, damage, speed factor and 1 HP and lost a HLA for it.
If you really want to dual late then wait until level 13 for the extra half attack.

The only reason I was thinking lvl 12 was because druids get to lvl 13 extremely quickly, but lvl 14 insanely slowly. So it just seemed like a good time.

[VonDondu]

Druids require 1,500,000 experience points to reach 14th Level. I don't see what's so insane about that. Mages and Fighters require exactly the same amount. Clerics require 1,350,000 experience points, which is only 150,000 points less. If I want to play a dual-class character instead of a multi-class character, I like dualling my Fighters at 13th Level when I play TOB. Dualling from a 13th Level Fighter (or kit) to a 14th Level Druid isn't much different from dualling to a 14th Level Mage or Cleric, and I don't hear many complaints about those options. I guess the fact that it only takes 750,000 experience points to reach 13th Level as a Druid is what makes it seem different.

On the other hand, going from 14th Level (1,500,000 XP) to 15th Level (3,000,000 XP) as a Druid is a really big jump (assuming that the experience table I'm looking at is not misprinted). That's a problem whether you dual at 9th Level or 13th Level. But I can see what kmonster is saying. The extra 1,000,000 experience points it takes to go from a 9th Level Fighter (250,000 XP) to a 13th Level Fighter (1,250,000 XP) would help you get to 15th Level Druid faster.

Of course, none of this makes any difference at all if you play a multi-class Fighter/Druid. I agree with Lancelot122. If you play SOA, dual-class characters have the advantage, although you should probably dual at 9th Level to maximize your character as kmonster suggested. That way, your second class will reach nearly the highest level, and you'll get there a lot faster. Anomen, Nalia, and Imoen would all be top in their class if they dualled at 9th Level. (Nalia and Imoen could still reach 17th Level as Mages if they dualled at 11th Level.) But if you play TOB, multi-class characters have the edge in my opinion due to the availability of High Level Abilities. Even so, you could make a good case for either of them--they're not too shabby, as you can see in the comparison below:


9th Level Berserker/20th Level Cleric
136 hp (CON 18, maximum hit dice)
THAC0 with Flail (no STR modifier): 5 (Base 8)
Attacks per round: 3
Flail ***** (+3 damage)
War Hammer *** (+2 damage)
Mace *
Sling *
Sword and Shield Style *
Two Weapon Style *** (14 proficiency points total)
Enrage twice/day
Can make a lich explode with Turn Undead

Multi-class 13th Level Fighter/14th Level Cleric
135 hp (CON 18--maximum hit dice) (Note: I need to doublecheck this)
THAC0 with Flail (no STR modifier): 7 (Base 8)
Attacks per round: 2.5
Flail ** (+2 damage)
War Hammer ** (+2 damage)
Mace *
Two Weapon Style *** (8 proficiency points total)

If don't let your characters earn more than 2,950,000 experience points and you don't play Throne of Bhaal, then a Berserker dualled to a Cleric has some advantages over a multi-classed Figher/Cleric: more hit points, 10% better chance to hit, more damage, higher spellcasting ability, and better Turn Undead ability. But if you play Throne of Bhaal was released with where the level cap is 8 million experience points and High Level Abilities are available, I really think the multi-class Fighter/Cleric has the edge. If you play Throne of Bhaal, you might need to recruit another melee warrior, anyway, so you want your first melee warrior to be as strong as possible, and that's where the High Level Abilities come into play:

9th Level Berserker/42nd Level Cleric
202 hp (CON 18, maximum hit dice)
THAC0 with Flail (no STR modifier): 3 (Base 6)
Attacks per round: 3
Flail ***** (+3 damage)
War Hammer ***** (+3 damage)
Mace *** (+2 damage)
Sling *
Sword and Shield Style **
Two Weapon Style *** (19 proficiency points total)
Enrage twice/day
9 High Level Abilities, spells only (maxed out)
Can make a demilich explode with Turn Undead

Multi-class 24th Level Fighter/25th Level Cleric
157 hp (CON 18--maximum hit dice) (Note: I need to doublecheck this)
THAC0 with Flail (no STR modifier): -1 (Base 0)
Attacks per round: 2.5
Flail ** (+2 damage)
War Hammer ** (+2 damage)
Mace ** (+2 damage)
Quarterstaff ** (+2 damage)
Two-Handed Weapon Style **
Two Weapon Style *** (13 proficiency points total)
22 High Level Abilities, including Critical Strike, Greater Whirlwind, Greater Deathblow, and Hardiness in addition to the nine Cleric spells available

Their saving throws are roughly the same; the Berserker/Cleric's are slightly better except for Breath Weapon: Death 1/2, Wands 4/5, Petrification 3/4, Breath Weapon 6/4, Spells 5/6.

[chickenhed]

first of all, I want to thank everyone for their responses. Vondondu, that was awesome! However, I am more curious about the druid than the cleric. But in just the last day (showing my inability to figure out what I want to play) I actually HAVE been thinking of doing a fighter/cleric. And even with ToB, I like the idea of the berserker/cleric more than the multi fighter/cleric. The only thing that sucks is that this character (whichever I decide to play) will be starting in the original BG, and going to BG2. And playing a straight fighter in BG, I find, is quite boring compared to any spellcaster really.


Thanks again! Especially to VonDondu for the awesome detailed explanation.

EDIT: VonDondu, I gotta ask. How the heck do you have such detailed specs for characters at each level? Right down to their saving throws! Very impressive!

[Klorox]

Multiclass. I like armor.

[VonDondu]

VonDondu, I gotta ask. How the heck do you have such detailed specs for characters at each level? Right down to their saving throws! Very impressive!

I created the characters and levelled them up by using cheat codes. Then I just copied the information from their character records. I'd have to do the same thing to get the information for a Fighter/Druid and a Kensai/Druid.

It just occurred to me that when you compare a Kensai/Druid to a Fighter/Druid, it would also be interesting to compare them to a Cleric/Ranger, which is arguably more powerful than both of them (although it is not quite the same thing as a Druid).

[Sheila Lee]

You might want to consider installing the refinements mod, which makes the choice between dual and multi class fighter/druids more interesting. The dualled character gets the full selection of druid HLAs (including some new spells), while the multi classed character gets some druid and some figher HLAs, but not all of either (no greater whirlwind for example) and a special HLA that belongs only to the fighter/druid multiclass.

[Buster]

It's no secret that I favor powergaming and most of my knowledge is with Barbarians but on my quest for the best fighter/powergaming char, I've created one that's the best so far.

I downloaded the G3 tweak pack and installed the Shapshifter re-balancing mod then started a regular fighter/druid char.

Then using Shadowkeeper under the characteristics heading changed from true class to shapeshifter then went to innate and added the shapeshifter kit.

Read the stats at G3 about the shapeshifter's change coupled with the fighters advantage of grandmastery and HLA's and you have a very powerful combo with the Druidic magic to boot!

I've kept the lesser Werewolf until lvl 13 like you should then put on the greater Werewolf paw and what a killing machine! The only draw back is that the GWW paws are a +3 weapon, good for early in the game but later on will have to put the paw in the off-hand and a better weapon in the main hand.

Well thay's my advice on the best fighter/druid combo I have found.

Hope this helps.

Buster

[Onkel Bob]

It's no secret that I favor powergaming and most of my knowledge is with Barbarians but on my quest for the best fighter/powergaming char, I've created one that's the best so far.

I downloaded the G3 tweak pack and installed the Shapshifter re-balancing mod then started a regular fighter/druid char.

Then using Shadowkeeper under the characteristics heading changed from true class to shapeshifter then went to innate and added the shapeshifter kit.

Read the stats at G3 about the shapeshifter's change coupled with the fighters advantage of grandmastery and HLA's and you have a very powerful combo with the Druidic magic to boot!

I've kept the lesser Werewolf until lvl 13 like you should then put on the greater Werewolf paw and what a killing machine! The only draw back is that the GWW paws are a +3 weapon, good for early in the game but later on will have to put the paw in the off-hand and a better weapon in the main hand.

Well thay's my advice on the best fighter/druid combo I have found.

Hope this helps.

Buster

That guy would be strong. I might actually prefer to be able to rage however. And that can be done without hacking the character too. Just do a berserker to level 9 or maybe 13 or something else and then dual to druid... I haven't actually considered it more closely so I'm not sure exactly when I'd dual. You do lose GWW but I can live with that with the Druid HLA's available...

Either character would be an absolute beast in melee...

[Buster]

Yeah, the rage does take care of those pesky little spells of maze and imprisonment . I tried the same char starting with a fighter/druid and used Shadowkeeper to change the kits to beserker/druid and found him to be very powerful as well.

As far as duelling, I did as VonDondu did and started a Beserker and leveled up with the console and duelling at lvls 9-13. IMO I liked the saves you gained at the higher lvls and would duel at lvl 13, still plenty of EXP to have to get your druid side up to the HLA's.

However I still like the multiclass to draw off of both HLA pools(even better with the EXP cap removed ).

To bad you can't use Shadowkeeper to give you both kits on the multiclass . I have found you can have one or the other. Unless someone else has found a way to do it.

Thanks

Buster