Icehockey and violent...

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:43 pm

Has icehockey really came to [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOdGMaaV-8A"]this[/url]?

I'm actually very shocked how violent this game is today. And people still thinks that there isn't enough action in icehockey game yet...

Chris Simon, the player who makes that hit, got 25 game longing penalty. IMO that's not even near enough, these kind of player should be banned from playing for ever...

@Kipi: I have deleted the link because a number of the comments posted at that site make use of terms and words that are not appropriate here at SYM. This is similar to links to sites that would display inappropriate pictures.

Please be guided accordingly. If you have any question, feel free to PM me or any of the mods/supermods of SYM.

Thanks.

-Maharlika-

After consultation with the others I have decided to have the link back. I would suggest tho that we should be more cognizant of the things surrounding the sites that we link in our posts.

- Maharlika -

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:55 pm

Unfortunately such things happens in every sport where some contact is a part of the game.
These people are pumped on adrenalin when playing and as such their judgment is sometimes placed somewhere it shouldn't be.
I doubt there is much one can do about it, except punish such acts severly, but I do not think it is as such a result of the game, but more a result of individuals loosing their cool.

Last week there was some turmoil with a football champions league match between Inter (Italian) and Valencia (Spanish) which resulted in a player running in and hitting another and some other stuff.......

How bad these situations are, they do happen. I think of it as a sort of road-rage type situation. People suddenly just "pop". They shouldn't, but people are people and as such they on occasions do irrational things.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:06 pm

Xandax wrote: How bad these situations are, they do happen. I think of it as a sort of road-rage type situation. People suddenly just "pop". They shouldn't, but people are people and as such they on occasions do irrational things.

As I have very tight contacts to sport, I know such "pops" happens.

But what I keep sad is that suprisingly big population actually idolizes players who fight in games, and they expect to see hard tackles, nevertheless are those against rules or no, and fights.

Okay, the situation in the video is from the extreme end of current situation, but still it represent very well what icehockey (and so many other sport) has turned: fighting and hurting.

Sean The Owner · Post by **Sean The Owner** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:33 pm

that was intense, though, after having your head smashed into the boards while pumped up on adrenaline, youre going to show that guy who's boss right then and there, not next time theres an opening, i do think the first hit was clean though, just a bad position for the other guy, id say a full season suspension would be in order for the guy that hit the other guy in the face

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:45 pm

Sean The Owner wrote:that was intense, though, after having your head smashed into the boards while pumped up on adrenaline, youre going to show that guy who's boss right then and there, not next time theres an opening, i do think the first hit was clean though, just a bad position for the other guy, id say a full season suspension would be in order for the guy that hit the other guy in the face

He got 25 games, which is as much as the rest of the season if his team goes to the end of the playoffs...

If the team gets eliminated earlier, and there is games left from the suspension, those will cary to the next season...

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:34 pm

Oh come on, the guy was skating afterwards. Skating! I'm sure he didn't even have a concussion. This is a rough game right? Sure, the guy was out of line, but I've seen much better faked soccer accidents.

Edit, ok I missed the part where he kicked his head in with his stick. I thought he smashed him into the board. Explains his odd position on the ice. Still.. he just skated away from the incident.

Sean The Owner · Post by **Sean The Owner** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:32 pm

Kipi wrote:He got 25 games, which is as much as the rest of the season if his team goes to the end of the playoffs...

If the team gets eliminated earlier, and there is games left from the suspension, those will cary to the next season...

i meant next season as well, since it WAS kind of uncalled for...

Tricky wrote:Edit, ok I missed the part where he kicked his head in with his stick. I thought he smashed him into the board. Explains his odd position on the ice. Still.. he just skated away from the incident.

he skated away for revenge, and pumped with adrenaline, not because he could, because he "needed" to in his mind at the time

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:00 am

Kipi wrote:<snip>
But what I keep sad is that suprisingly big population actually idolizes players who fight in games, and they expect to see hard tackles, nevertheless are those against rules or no, and fights.
<snip>

There are weird people out there. Hardly the fault of the sport as I see it, unless a direct connection between the violence and the sport can be found. It is after all more rare then not seeing these people "pop" like that.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:07 am

I think it is both extremely pathetic and completely unacceptable that adults are unable to play a simple game without turning to violence.

I agree entirely with Kipi that the punishments should be more severe, as this kind of incidents are not caused by adrenaline, but by a culture within the sport that is very lenient on violence.

In other sports, like Rugby and the martial arts sports, this rarely if ever happens.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:49 pm

Actually there's a lot less violence in ice hockey than there used to be. If you've ever seen 'Slapshot' then belive me, it's only a slight exaggeration of what hockey used to be like in the 70's.

Having said that, the way the guy chopped the guy with the stick was way out of order, even by 70's standards. It looked like the idiot was trying to decpitate his opponent, the victim was very lucky that the outcome wasn't a lot worse. Chopping someone across the throat with the edge of a stick could easily have been lethal. IMO the perpetrator should have got a lot more than 25 games, and on top of that the police should step in and arrest the fool.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:31 pm

Galraen is right, hockey is less violent than it used to be. What Chris Simon did is fortunately an isolated incident that does not happen often. It has been condemned by everybody. Although we think 25 games is not a lot, don't forget that it is the biggest suspension ever in modern hockey. Colin Campbell had to judge based on suspensions that were given before.

Some general managers have proposed to eliminate fights. It takes time to change mentalities, but I think in a couple of years maybe there is a chance that fights won't be tolerated anymore.

The one thing I would like to see is more penalties for assault. Fifteen years ago, a player who skated more then 4-5 strides to hit an opponent got an assault penalty. Now, a player can skate 60 feet and hit an opponent at full speed. No doubt we see more concussions. I am not trying to excuse Chris Simon in any way, but if Hollweg had not hit Simon at full speed, this would not have happened. As I said, I am not trying to defend Simon, I am just saying that it would be wise to try to avoid the things that makes a player loose his control.

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:11 pm

I don't know if anyone remembers this, but way back in the day, there was an incident where a player picked up another one and dropped him on his head, ending the guy's career (I'm not sure if the victim even was able to walk again).

As Galrean and Gilliat said, hockey violence has been toned down of late. That said, this type of incident is disgusting.

This didn't end up as bad as the Marty McSorley incident or the Todd Bertuzzi one, so that's at least a positive.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:47 pm

Okay, have to admit that I have "followed" icehockey intensively only about seven years or so, so can't compare the situation to the 70's. But what I have noticed as well as quite many others that during those seven years, icehockey has got more violent. And it's not only icehockey, basketball and football as well, and probably many other sports.

One thing I have especially noticed that fights have become "the flavour" of the match. If there is fight, the game is considered better by the audience, and the bigger the better. This clearly shows the major attitude towards the violent in games.

Even worse, the attitude has moved to the young players as well. For example, few weeks ago I heard young boy complaining to his father about the rules in junior icehockey which bans tackles till certain age. The boy was complaining that they weren't allowed to tackle! And it hasn't been the only time I have heard such complains...

Obi-Wan-Evan · Post by **Obi-Wan-Evan** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:18 pm

The hit from behind wasnt even that big, Simon is a big guy he just could have shaken it off but he was greasy and hit him in the face. It's the same as the Bretuzzie inccident and the McSorley and Brasher thing but this one has a lesser penalty then the other 2 for some reason. What was the suspension for McSorly? Anyone know?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:00 pm

Kipi wrote:Okay, have to admit that I have "followed" icehockey intensively only about seven years or so, so can't compare the situation to the 70's. But what I have noticed as well as quite many others that during those seven years, icehockey has got more violent. And it's not only icehockey, basketball and football as well, and probably many other sports.

One thing I have especially noticed that fights have become "the flavour" of the match. If there is fight, the game is considered better by the audience, and the bigger the better. This clearly shows the major attitude towards the violent in games.

Even worse, the attitude has moved to the young players as well. For example, few weeks ago I heard young boy complaining to his father about the rules in junior icehockey which bans tackles till certain age. The boy was complaining that they weren't allowed to tackle! And it hasn't been the only time I have heard such complains...

Are you talking about real football (aka Soccer) or the American version of Rugby? It's not really that important which really, because both are also pretty tame these days, just ask Darryl Stingley or any victim of Ron 'Chopper' Harris. I think the difference these days is that most of the violent aspects in sports have supposed to have been made illegal, so when they happen a big issue is made out of it.

The use of elbows in soccer seems to be getting more prevalent, in fact it isn't, but whereas in the past it was viewed as 'part of the game' and pretty much ignored, it's now a 'No no' and draws a lot of attention.

Likewise with what are now termed illegal hits in gridiron, because they are illegal, when they happen there's multiple repeats on TV and endless analysis and condemnation. When Jack Tatum hit Darryl Stingley (in a preseason exhibition game) there wasn't even a flag thrown. The 'hook' that Tatum used was legal at that time, and if Darryl hadn't been paralyzed from the neck down for life, nothing would have been made of it.

I guess it comes down to perception, and what's considered 'within the rules' and therefore acceptable.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:04 pm

@kipi, I still don't agree with you. There are less fights now than 5 years ago. At that time most teams had 2 goons in their ranks and now some teams don't even have one. Many goons who could not skate had to retire after the lock out because they were not needed anymore. As I said, they are even talking about eliminating fights. Find a web site that gives statistics about the later years and you will find that there are far less penalties than there were before the lock out. We don't see players with 300 + penalty minutes anymore.

Some years ago, Ruslan Salei did something very similar to what Chris Simon just did. Back in the '70s when Canada played vs the USSR, Bobby Clarke deliberatly broke Karlamov's leg with a slash (and Karlamov was the USSR's best forward). Those things are not new, it is just that people and newspapers do not accept it has they used to. And that is a good thing.

@Obi-Wan-Evan, McSorley got a 23 games suspension, but deciced to retire instead.