When do Minsc and Jaheira start being useful?

HandsomeDevil · Post by **HandsomeDevil** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:22 am

I just dusted off my copy of BG2 to give it another go. I'm tooling around with a sorc right now, but I'm starting to think I need to play a tank because Minsc and Jaheira keep getting their heads handed to them by thugs, ruffians, guards and basically any peasant that looks at them cross-eyed. I just can't seem to keep these two alive . It's getting really frustrating.

I keep reading about how Minsc and Jaheira can be great tanks and I am interested in seeing the NPC romance angle, but how long must I suffer (and endure reload after reload) before they can start to carry their own weight?

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:30 am

Jaheira will take a while, but try Iron Skins on her and use Insect Plauge on enemies.

Minsc -just keep leveling him he makes a good tank eventually use Armour of faith it keeps getting better and better and absorbes significant damage later on

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:16 pm

You must be doing something wrong. No offence meant.

For me they're useful right from the start.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:02 pm

I've not had any trouble with Minsc, either. What is he wearing/wielding? I usually have him use Lilacor for quite a while.

I like Jahiera at higher levels but I don't use her as tank - she does well with a sling. If you need another tank I'd suggest Korgan. She has one spell I particularly like but I can't recall the name of it. It conjures up two white bears that make amazing meat shields. After even some of the most heinous battles one or both of them are usually still standing.

HandsomeDevil · Post by **HandsomeDevil** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:15 pm

Onkel Bob wrote:You must be doing something wrong. No offence meant.

None taken. I don't remember having this much trouble before.

I'm still roaming around the city, looking for the 'easy' experience points. I'm just getting frustrated with how quickly they suck up healing potions and how little I can get done between rests. I haven't even got Lilarcor for Minsc yet - I was having trouble before I even went there.

I like the idea of the storyline with Jaheira, but I need a druid in my party like I need a hole in the head. I'm depending on her for melee, otherwise Minsc is on his own up front - I'm a sorc, and I've got Jan and Aerie (which is already causing a bit of difficulty in spreading out the scrolls).

I think maybe I'll build up the half-orc ftr/clr that's been rolling around in my head and work from there. I'm still torn about booting Jaheira, though. I want to see where the story goes, but she's just dead weight. (FWIW, I've never had much use for her and I've screwed up the romance every single time)

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:18 pm

I rarely keep Minsc past Chapter 2. It's a scarce occurence for me to rescue Jaheira in the first place.

It used to be that I would keep them for the roleplay, because essentially my first run though BG1 was with that classic party - Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, Khalid and Imoen. Ditching the two seemed very uncharacteristic, but eventually there comes a time when they must simply be left behind because there are just too many combat-orientated NPCs in the game to choose from, making this pair seem lackluster.

Jaheira has a strength of 15, which is acceptable for a fighter, but not ideal. Her high constitution is a saving grace, but a lot of good that is if she isn't dealing out decent damage. In terms of fighter class you could go for higher strength NPCs, like Korgan (18/77), Keldorn (17), Valygar (17), Anomen (18/52), so I think Jaheira's best quality is in her druid spells.

But what can we compare her to? In terms of class specific spells and abilities (Iron Skins, Shapeshift Earth Elemental) she doesn't have much competition, but even then seems to be edged out. The game's only other druid, Cernd, has stats in the ditch (when in human form). Low on STR, DEX, and CON, but he has a WIS of 18, toppling her 14. If we're looking for a druid solely for the role of spellcaster, he would be the pick.

Minsc has the necessary qualities for being a ranger, but he's way outdone by Valygar. Minsc has stats that reflect his roleplay character, plain and simple. Unfortunately, one is not thinking about how eager he is to spank evil's buttocks when a Mind Flayer walks up and *BAM* *BAM*... has drained his intellegence to nil, killing him outright. In later parts of the game, I find it nearly impossible to keep Minsc alive. He even has one of the most dank CHA scores in the game, meaning you don't even want him in the lead of your party without the Ring of Human Influence.

In my meager opinion, neither is particularly worth the effort.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:42 pm

Aqua-chan wrote:

I never decide on characters based on how useful they are. I just choose whomever I want and make them work. Any npc in BG2 has the potential to be really powerful. And fighters? based on their strength? Why? It's not like there's really a shortage of strength enhancing items.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:12 pm

I find that there's hardly any difference between the fighter and ranger npc's in the game. sooner or later any tank you mention will have 2 proficiencies in anything you want him to use + 2(3) in that weapon style. with respects to stat's the slight differences in constitution or dexterity won't make a difference in the long run, there're not going to make or break a fight.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:21 am

Reply

Theres an easy way = dump em both and the first two characters you meet outside of the dungeons are in the slums copper coronet - korgan and anomen.

Talk about an easy replacement.

HandsomeDevil · Post by **HandsomeDevil** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:12 pm

I've kept Jaheira and Minsc for now, but I'm still not blown away by their ability. I've also picked up Korgan (though I'm afraid his alignment will become a problem). I'll go get his book, and then we'll see where it goes. Everyone seems to like the character, so maybe he'll prove to be an interesting pickup.

If start to pull their own weight soon I think I will end up dumping them and picking up Anomen. Or maybe Keldorn.

I like the NPC interaction with those two characters, but I do get frustrated with this game in that it's hard to build the party you want. I guess there's always Shadowkeeper, but I'm not too good with it, and that just seems like outright cheating.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:24 pm

Onkel Bob wrote:I never decide on characters based on how useful they are. I just choose whomever I want and make them work. Any npc in BG2 has the potential to be really powerful.

That may be a good technique for you, but HandsomeDevil indicated that just "making them work" was not playing out for him. Frankly, I agree with you that one should take characters they want without much regard of stats, but at the same time as a front line fighter, Jaheira can't amount to Korgan.

Onkel Bob wrote:And fighters? based on their strength? Why? It's not like there's really a shortage of strength enhancing items.

Why rely on strength enhancing items when there are so many fighters/rangers with better overall stats?

Okay, so let's not compare attributes at all. How about content? RP wise, there are better character quests and dialogs to choose from. Minsc recieved squat after the game's deadline cut. If you are not engaging in the romance, Jaheira is nearly as bland as Minsc, her "quest" barely satisfying for an NPC you've supposedly "known" for a long time (my personal opinion, of course).

Really, I agree with the threadstarter: Minsc and Jaheira are two NPCs who can't step up when there are just so many others who can essentially do the job better. One could sooner go with Valygar and Anomen and be better off.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:20 pm

yes but you can always install UB for alll the things Bioware cut

. I've gotten halfway through it before my hard drive died on me. I'm told the Minsc quest is quite nice.

Rhûn · Post by **Rhûn** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:13 pm

They start being useful straight away - 3000xp each from getting them out of their cages! Then they stop being useful and you can cast them away and pick up better people. Oh, and scribe two level3 spells to your mage book and you'll pick up the same xp.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:07 am

With Jan, Aerie, and yourself as a Sorcerer, I think you have too few tanks already.

IMHO, I have only 2 characters maximum who stink in melee. Since you have Jan and are playing a Sorcerer, I'd suggest dropping Aerie and picking up Anomen. He can fight, and is a better Cleric than Aerie. Add points in Flail when he levels up.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:49 am

but straight tanks are the worst possible class in BGII. Arcane Devine nd thieving abilities are alot more usefull. IMO you really only need 2 tanks more is overkill

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:06 pm

Agree with Klorox in that you're a little too mage heavy. Unless that's typical to your playing style, you'll either end up frustrated or doing a lot of pre-battle buffing of your weaker team members.

Klorox wrote:He can fight, and is a better Cleric than Aerie. Add points in Flail when he levels up.

And Warhammer, because there are a few good ones throughout the game.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:07 pm

Tsk that warhammer is better used with Korgan

As for party composition 6 mages > 5 mages > 4 mages > ect

no just kidding you do need a few brutes to take the hits for the mages but two good tanks can easly be enough if you actually use your spells. In ToB tanks become obsolete anyway

The major mistake I used to make was to save spells because I might need them for a darker day but then in the end because I didn't use them the enemy inflicted heavy damage on my team and I'd have to rest anyway

HandsomeDevil · Post by **HandsomeDevil** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:51 pm

Aqua-chan wrote:Agree with Klorox in that you're a little too mage heavy. Unless that's typical to your playing style, you'll either end up frustrated or doing a lot of pre-battle buffing of your weaker team members.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! You, sir, have hit the nail on the head. I didn't realize it before, but I have not been too happy with my sorc-led party for the exact reasons you mention. I was depending on Jaheira and Minsc to bring the thunder melee-wise, but Jaheira in particular wasn't doing much.

Come to think of it, I don't know why I started a sorc. It's like a friend of mine said to me about pnp D&D, "I don't know why you agonize so much about your character when it's so obvious you're happiest playing a chaotic damage machine." Hmmm, I think I smell another character being rolled up...

If I can summarize the input so far: I have to modify my 'kick-in-the-door' style and get used to buffing and I have to accept Minsc and Jaheira as is because they're never going to rock the world with their fighting. Is that accurate?

And by the way, the post about Minsc being a non-entity RP-wise has hit home. I've played this game into the Underdark, and now that I think about it, Minsc's character arc was pretty much complete by chapter 2.

Thanks to everyone who's replied. I friggin' dig these boards because people will stick around to talk about a 6 or 7 year old game.

HandsomeDevil · Post by **HandsomeDevil** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:54 pm

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:The major mistake I used to make was to save spells because I might need them for a darker day but then in the end because I didn't use them the enemy inflicted heavy damage on my team and I'd have to rest anyway

I'm still trying to figure out whether I should 'save' my spells (and potions and scrolls and wands...) or whether I should 'live in the now' and blow off whatever I've got. As we used to say in the Navy: you don't go to the bottom with a full mag.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:37 pm

HandsomeDevil wrote:You, sir...

Ma'am.

HandsomeDevil wrote:I didn't realize it before, but I have not been too happy with my sorc-led party for the exact reasons you mention. I was depending on Jaheira and Minsc to bring the thunder melee-wise, but Jaheira in particular wasn't doing much.

Come to think of it, I don't know why I started a sorc. It's like a friend of mine said to me about pnp D&D, "I don't know why you agonize so much about your character when it's so obvious you're happiest playing a chaotic damage machine." Hmmm, I think I smell another character being rolled up...

If I can summarize the input so far: I have to modify my 'kick-in-the-door' style and get used to buffing and I have to accept Minsc and Jaheira as is because they're never going to rock the world with their fighting. Is that accurate?

Essentially, yes. Try Stoneskins, Blur, Mirror Image and Spell Turning to protect your back line. Jaheira also acquires the nifty Iron Skins soon on, and that really is a useful spell that will spare her in tight spots.

It sounds as though your style is similar in mine in the regard that you don't want to have to enlist all your defensive spells every time you stumble upon a group of orcs. A mage-heavy party would require a lot of spell casting, and in turn, resting. It becomes really tiresome and requires a lot of mincromanaging.

There are a lot of reasons why one would want to avoid Multi/Dual classed characters, but it's my experience that characters dualed from fighters are a great investment. Even Fighter/Mages have the potential to become really tough if played strategically (see Sola from Wiemer). You might want to dabble in these types of characters.

HandsomeDevil wrote:And by the way, the post about Minsc being a non-entity RP-wise has hit home. I've played this game into the Underdark, and now that I think about it, Minsc's character arc was pretty much complete by chapter 2.

There is a mod previously mentioned, Unfinished Business, which addresses that issue, but I really recommend playing through the game a few times without any such additions.

HandsomeDevil wrote:Thanks to everyone who's replied. I friggin' dig these boards because people will stick around to talk about a 6 or 7 year old game.

And naturally, we are all glad to be of service.