When do Minsc and Jaheira start being useful?

[RPG Guy (sorta)]

Come to think of it, I don't know why I started a sorc.

Dude, seriously, Sorcerers rock like nothing else. Towards the end of ToB, your dinky little Sorc can summon 6 planatars (or more depending on how much cheese you want to use). Those 6 are better than any possible kind of tank you can build with your PC,...and that's not even considering the spells each planatar/dark planatar can cast or, of course, the Sorc itself.

And summoning planatars (the ultimate summons) is but a small fraction of a sorc's offensive capability.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Only 6 Planetars why limit yourself ?? Ascension final my pre fight save has over 20 on screen and probably just as many skeletons hehe. But as he said it's not his playing style, he is clearly more tank oriented with minimal casting/buffing.

In terms of tank power, what really sets apart Minsc from a "much" better tank (Korgan) ??

-The few extra hp's of Korgan ?? offset by Armour of Faith

-Item and weapon wise ?? you can equip Korgan or Minsc with any item in the game and get them specialized in it quite quickly

- Few extra whirldwinds ?? 10 vs 15 or so not a big difference

-Strenght ?? both can equip Crom and/or girdles

- ** instead of ***** no difference without un-nerfed GM mod

These I could make similar lists with most single class tanks in the game with the exception of Sarevok.

Jaheira ?? - a slightly worse fighter due to the slower progression and limited weapon choice, but has Iron Skin, IP, and functions as healer at the end she can still be a quite decent tank.

The point of all this: is that you can easly make any straight work just by giving them the right items. If you hate buffing up for a fight, you only need to avoid Anomen, H'D, and Jaheira

[VonDondu]

I just dusted off my copy of BG2 to give it another go. I'm tooling around with a sorc right now, but I'm starting to think I need to play a tank because Minsc and Jaheira keep getting their heads handed to them by thugs, ruffians, guards and basically any peasant that looks at them cross-eyed. I just can't seem to keep these two alive . It's getting really frustrating.

I don't remember having this much trouble before.

If you haven't played in a while and it seems like the game is more difficult than it was the last time you played, is it possible that you are playing on a different difficulty setting? It could make a really big difference.

[HandsomeDevil]

Ma'am.

D'OH! Sorry. I apologize for my latent sexism.

Back in my day, girls didn't play video games or pnp D&D - they just made fun of guys who did. With my hobbies, I'm amazed I got married. It must be because I'm so devilishly handsome.

[HandsomeDevil]

Let me see if I can address some of the excellent comments here (and thanks again for those comments):

1. FWIW, I'm playing an unmodded SoA game. No wait, I installed Dungeon-Be-Gone. But nothing else. I'll install ToB once I've completed SoA - which at this rate should be sometime in 2009.

2. RPG Guy - I hear you on the endgame power of magic-users, but keeping them alive until then is sort of the issue. I love the idea of throwing around high-level spells, but if Minsc and Jaheira can't protect my soft and cuddly sorc when he's weakest, I'm hooped.

3. Aqua-Chan - you're right, I think we do have similar game styles. I don't want to blow off my magic using short-term buffs. I want to put the pain on the bad guys. I cringe whenever I cast something that doesn't directly hurt the enemy. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised - in pnp, I don't think I've ever had a character cast a divination or enchantment. My solution (in-game and out, I think) is to find a bigger hammer.

4. Jedi_Saurus - I suppose you're right in that a character's gear changes everything. It's just that I really don't know what to expect to receive and I have to allocate scarce gear across 4, 5, or 6 characters. I don't want to have to 'waste' good gear to make a weak character acceptable. I've always viewed equipment as the icing, not as a primary ingredient (probably a hangover from too many cheap DMs in pnp). Basically, I want the characters to be good right out of the box.

5. VonDondu - I don't remember fiddling with the difficulty level, but I'm a guy who called a woman "sir" in a public forum, so I'm obviously not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. I shall check the difficulty level.

[Cuchulain82]

I wish I'd jumped in earlier. AquaChan is entirely on the money- you've got too many mages. This is brutal in the first part of the game because spellcasters generally don't bring the hurt until at least level 10 or 12, imho. By the time they get up to level 8/9 spells (level 17+) you've got some power, but you still have to rest pretty often.

[QUOTE=HandsomeDevil]Come to think of it, I don't know why I started a sorc. It's like a friend of mine said to me about pnp D&D, "I don't know why you agonize so much about your character when it's so obvious you're happiest playing a chaotic damage machine." Hmmm, I think I smell another character being rolled up...[/quote]
I want the ultimate "ready for any circumstances" character, try some version of a fighter/theif. I've written about this class here repeatedly, so I'll just link to an old post. Check it out [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/765699-post21.html"]here[/url]. That's the original post. There's links to other posts in there. Check it out.

I bring this up because I hate buffing. Really. I generally don't like to use magic that much, but buffing is the worst. I just think it is poorly done in the game. So I like to have a very melee-heavy party. Plus, there's no real theif in the game, and the theives have the best HLAs available.

[QUOTE=HandsomeDevil]And by the way, the post about Minsc being a non-entity RP-wise has hit home. I've played this game into the Underdark, and now that I think about it, Minsc's character arc was pretty much complete by chapter 2.[/quote]
That may be true, but I, for one, really like Minsc. I think he has some good dialogue options and is a great tank. The fact that he has the odd ranger trick (sneak, as well as the berzerk function) comes in handy once in a blue moon. He's not a straighforward engine of destruction like Korgan, but if you want to keep aerie around and/or have a good party, Korgan has other issues. Plus, there are TONS of two handed swords in the game, so Minsc has that going for him as well.

[QUOTE=HandsomeDevil]Thanks to everyone who's replied. I friggin' dig these boards because people will stick around to talk about a 6 or 7 year old game. [/QUOTE]
Dude, the game rocks! I don't even play anymore and I still post about it.

[Elessar-NWN]

My party in the game is usually:

Ranger or Paladin Human/Half Elf PC (Ranger as a stealth agent/front line fighter)
Minsc (main fighter)
Jaheria (druid/sling person/ middle line fighter)
Anomen (cleric/middle line fighter)
Imoen or Nalia (thief/archer and Mage)
Keldorn or Sarevok (front line fighter)

THis is a good party, and holds it own on combat, and I dinf Jaheria and Minsc uneful, both for romances and practical abilities. Keldorn and Sarevok is great, and I find it is the perfect good aligned party.

[HandsomeDevil]

I want the ultimate "ready for any circumstances" character, try some version of a fighter/theif. I've written about this class here repeatedly, so I'll just link to an old post. Check it out [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/765699-post21.html"]here[/url]. That's the original post. There's links to other posts in there. Check it out.
...
I bring this up because I hate buffing. Really. I generally don't like to use magic that much, but buffing is the worst. I just think it is poorly done in the game. So I like to have a very melee-heavy party. Plus, there's no real theif in the game, and the theives have the best HLAs available.

Dude, you are playing with my head. Every time I think I've got my new character rolled up, someone comes in with a nifty idea. Your playing style sounds similar to mine (I view buffs as more of an exceptional use of spells rather than a standard use). I also find hacking my enemies into small pieces more enjoyable than detonating them into a fine pink mist from afar by a spell.

I've never played a dual class because I've never really wrapped my head around the idea (I skipped 2ed in pnp D&D). Where can I find a list of thief HLAs? It would be nice to know when I can expect to gain the cool abilities. Or do HLAs not apply in SoA? Regardless, it sounds like this fighter|thief might be a very viable option (assuming I can get UAI).

But I do hate restarting with new characters because for all of the expansive RP goodness of BG2, getting to chapter 3 or so is a bit of a slog for me. At least I've got the dungeon-be-gone mod.

[Cuchulain82]

Dude, you are playing with my head. Every time I think I've got my new character rolled up, someone comes in with a nifty idea. Your playing style sounds similar to mine (I view buffs as more of an exceptional use of spells rather than a standard use). I also find hacking my enemies into small pieces more enjoyable than detonating them into a fine pink mist from afar by a spell.

Try a fighter-theif. I'm telling you, they're the bomb.

I've never played a dual class because I've never really wrapped my head around the idea (I skipped 2ed in pnp D&D). Where can I find a list of thief HLAs? It would be nice to know when I can expect to gain the cool abilities. Or do HLAs not apply in SoA? Regardless, it sounds like this fighter|thief might be a very viable option (assuming I can get UAI).

Theif HLAs should be in your manual as a list. They're undoubetdly on the BG2 site here. Do you only have SoA? If so, you should dual. If you have ToB, then multi-class is a good option. Really, it depends on what you want- dualing takes more time and ultimately nets you a slightly beefier character.

But I do hate restarting with new characters because for all of the expansive RP goodness of BG2, getting to chapter 3 or so is a bit of a slog for me. At least I've got the dungeon-be-gone mod.

I hear that. That was my fatal BG2 flaw as well- rolling up a character, playing 6 hours, then starting over. My advice- play who you want! I'm a power gamer, so the F/T was an obvious choice. But you should play whatever will keep you having fun.

[RPG Guy (sorta)]

2. RPG Guy - I hear you on the endgame power of magic-users, but keeping them alive until then is sort of the issue. I love the idea of throwing around high-level spells, but if Minsc and Jaheira can't protect my soft and cuddly sorc when he's weakest, I'm hooped.

Well dude, I have to agree that Jaheira is horrible. I dump her asap all the time. Cleric/Druid spells are lame until LVL 4 or 5 IMO. Minsc is decent combat-wise...but there are O-so-many better options. Keldorn has been impressive in my latest campaign. Korgan is my god damn personal hero. Both of those two are easy to pick up and integrate into the party. Mazzy is quite effective at both melee and archery but she takes some serious questing to find.

Please reconsider the sorcerer thing. They dominate well before ToB. Don't think they're junk because they hang in the back most of the time. Think of them as the acting general(s) instead. There are many ways to protect them and, frankly, the sheer power they can unleash is truly sadistic (grin).

[Cuchulain82]

Please reconsider the sorcerer thing. They dominate well before ToB. Don't think they're junk because they hang in the back most of the time. Think of them as the acting general(s) instead. There are many ways to protect them and, frankly, the sheer power the can unleash is truly sadistic.

I concur- a Sorcerer is the finest artillery battery on two legs in the entire game. But, it's not my style. I like melee, in part because of all the good stuff you can use throughout the game.

(ie: using UAI with a F->Th, you can have a two-handed grandmaster weilding Carsomyr. Very powerful indeed.)

[HandsomeDevil]

Please reconsider the sorcerer thing. They dominate well before ToB. Don't think they're junk because they hang in the back most of the time. Think of them as the acting general(s) instead. There are many ways to protect them and, frankly, the sheer power they can unleash is truly sadistic (grin).

My unhappiness with my sorcerer party is completely due to my inability to play them effectively. I know that my incompetence in the ways of magic does not make the character class weak.

I think I'm going to try a half-orc ftr/thief (I have a soft spot for big and stupid). If I can finish the game, I'll install ToB.

I also think I'm going to tell Jaheira and Minsc to shove off from the start. Screw you, treehugger! That goes double for you, rodent-lover! You can rot in these cages!

[RPG Guy (sorta)]

My unhappiness with my sorcerer party is completely due to my inability to play them effectively. I know that my incompetence in the ways of magic does not make the character class weak.

I think I'm going to try a half-orc ftr/thief (I have a soft spot for big and stupid). If I can finish the game, I'll install ToB.

I also think I'm going to tell Jaheira and Minsc to shove off from the start. Screw you, treehugger! That goes double for you, rodent-lover! You can rot in these cages!

I can respect that. But in the event that you end up loving the game to the degree the rest of us do, you will undoubtedly re-play as some sort of primary spellcaster. You'll do this because (I'm guessing) you'll finish the game with a sense that you've missed out on a large, important component of the game: spells.

I also suspect that as you plow ahead through the game, and start encountering enemies that either specialize or supplement their attacks with magic, that you'll start seriously wondering about those capabilities. Call it a healthy curiosity, wondering WTF just obliterated your party. Heheh...

But in all seriousness, the most important thing is that you're interested in the game and without a doubt, it can be completed with any primary character focus.

Some tips:

1. In the gameplay options screen, make sure the game is set to pause on every available setting (enemy sighted, character attacked, spell cast etc...)

2. Expand the text window to max (center bottom) and read what's happening so that you can understand what spells are being cast and the effect it has had.

3. Any time someone in your party has a strange little icon show up in their portrait (along the right hand side), pause the game and go into that character's profile (the silhouette of a head button) and read what effect they've been subjected to. It will help you understand what sort of attacks your adversaries are using. Except certain bosses, you'll encounter foe-types repeatedly throughout the game so paying attention really pays off down the road.

4. DO NOT become frustrated with those WTF????!!??!? moments. You will learn what is happening gradually and the 2nd edition rule-set with become clearer as you advance.

5. Keep this bookmarked and handy:

Baldur's Gate II - Spells Reference

Study it in pieces as your characters advance. Focus on the arcane sections.

Good luck bro!

[Aqua-chan]

My unhappiness with my sorcerer party is completely due to my inability to play them effectively. I know that my incompetence in the ways of magic does not make the character class weak.

I think I'm going to try a half-orc ftr/thief (I have a soft spot for big and stupid). If I can finish the game, I'll install ToB.

I also think I'm going to tell Jaheira and Minsc to shove off from the start. Screw you, treehugger! That goes double for you, rodent-lover! You can rot in these cages!

Since we've been talking a lot about Fighter/Thieves, I have to say that the class is absurdly uber-powerful and useful. I'm currently running through Icewind Dale 1 with an Neutral Evil F/M in my party, maxed out on Stealth and Pick Pocket. Skills in Great Sword and, well, wow. He's an awesome scout for danger and backstab is amazing. There's nothing like doing 30-50 damage in a single hit, then scuttling back to the party to set up and do it again.

[Klorox]

but straight tanks are the worst possible class in BGII. Arcane Devine nd thieving abilities are alot more usefull. IMO you really only need 2 tanks more is overkill

I'm the complete opposite way. IMHO, tanks rule the day in BG2 and ToB. You need just 1 killer mage (I prefer a sorcerer), but 1 killer mage with a backup (Imoen or Jan) is awesome.

Once Jaheira can cast Ironskins, it's all over. Get her a STR girdle and she'll last longer in a fight than any other bioware NPC (except for maybe Haer'Dalis).

[HandsomeDevil]

I started up a new game maybe two hours ago, and I've come to a new realization: Minsc and Jaheira can suck it!

I flashed up a new half-orc f/t, let Jaheira and Minsc to rot in Irenicus' dungeon, and I've picked up Korgan, Anomen, and Nalia. And right now I am rocking the world.

I am flat-out amazed at how much further I've gone and how much faster I'm getting there. I haven't had to reload yet, but I did before with Minsc and Jaheira in my party when a) I was finishing the Bridge Murderers quest, b) I went to the Govt District and met our friend Viccy, and c) when I was set upon by thugs in between city districts.

I didn't know what the big deal with Korgan was - in terms of RP - and then as we're hanging out in the Shadow Thieves' place, he lets loose on Nalia. Effing brilliant!

As I said at the outset, I wanted to keep Jaheira for the chatter and romance, but I am utterly astounded by how much better my party is now without her (and Minsc).