I'm sure there are hundreds of posts on this issue but again, I haven't bothered looking over all the pages of posts so sorry if people are tired of this but I would really love some opinions.
I was thinking of making an evil character who could dual wield longswords (or any other suggestions?) and I was thinking the party would be something in the lines of this:
Me
Korgan - hopefully being able to dual wield axes (is it possible for Korgan to have three points in two weapon style thingie?)
Edwin
Viconia
But how hard is it to complete the game without a thief? And is it worth it considering the experience the thieves give when they disarm traps.
Was considering a swashbuckler to make life easier but I also want a character that really can do some damage, even to dragons and such. So what comes to mind is barbarian and Kensai being hard hitting damage monsters (or so I hear atleast).
But how are swashys compared to thoose two classes?
Choosing a class
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fable
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I'm sure there are hundreds of posts on this issue but again, I haven't bothered looking over all the pages of posts so sorry if people are tired of this but I would really love some opinions.
This isn't a matter of "people" being "tired" of anything. It's the site owner who doesn't allow duplicative threads, because he says too many boards have been slowed to a crawl by hordes of the stuff. Fortunately for you, no two people usually have the same requirements on party, so this thread stays.
But please keep in mind using Search for other questions that could have a fixed answer. You'll be surprised what you might find in our database.
To the question: you can always bash chests, use clerical spells to search for traps, etc. It's tough going, but it can be done, and some here have done it. Personally, I would much sooner have a thief in my party. Especially somebody like Jan, who also provides strong mage skills, and can learn in the end to use anything.
This isn't a matter of "people" being "tired" of anything. It's the site owner who doesn't allow duplicative threads, because he says too many boards have been slowed to a crawl by hordes of the stuff. Fortunately for you, no two people usually have the same requirements on party, so this thread stays.
But please keep in mind using Search for other questions that could have a fixed answer. You'll be surprised what you might find in our database.To the question: you can always bash chests, use clerical spells to search for traps, etc. It's tough going, but it can be done, and some here have done it. Personally, I would much sooner have a thief in my party. Especially somebody like Jan, who also provides strong mage skills, and can learn in the end to use anything.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
But the thing is, I have been starting hundreds of games which I'm sure alot of other people have done here as well, and so I thought to myself I wanted to do something new (for me that is). And with a party of 4 you naturally have to sacrifice something. And i have the bad habit of comparing mages to Edwin which probably isn't a good idea if you want to be good
But yeah, I was in short wondering how much of a loss it would be on the damage side if I chose a swashy instead of any other dual wielding monster
But yeah, I was in short wondering how much of a loss it would be on the damage side if I chose a swashy instead of any other dual wielding monster
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fable
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We have got swashbuckler players here, though only one to my recollection maintains that the class is superior to kensai. I think there's a thread comparing them somwhere in the ToB forum, but I don't recall it very well. For myself, the distinctions aren't that great. There are all sorts of ways to maximize damage that don't involve class specialty choices, so I don't think power concerns should really get in the way of the latter. But it's entirely up to you.Kharas wrote:But the thing is, I have been starting hundreds of games which I'm sure alot of other people have done here as well, and so I thought to myself I wanted to do something new (for me that is). And with a party of 4 you naturally have to sacrifice something. And i have the bad habit of comparing mages to Edwin which probably isn't a good idea if you want to be good
But yeah, I was in short wondering how much of a loss it would be on the damage side if I chose a swashy instead of any other dual wielding monster
One thing to consider: if the amount of damage is lower for the swash, you might take it on as a challenge. In a similar fashion, I've recommended people add Cernd rather than Jaheira to their parties, or Nalia rather than Imoen or Jan: when they know the game well, a handicap can make you think strategically.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
How about a fighter of some sort dualled to thief at level 9. Take your pick. The Kensai or Wizard Slayer dualled to thief are quite cheesy IMO though.
But you get all the thief skills you'll ever need and it takes very little time to re-gain your fighter abilities. He will practically have a fighters hitpoints and get an additional attack each round from being level 9. And then there's the backstab ability...
My favourite for weapon choice would be Celestial Fury and, once he gets Use any item, the Scarlet Ninja-to in the off-hand.
But you get all the thief skills you'll ever need and it takes very little time to re-gain your fighter abilities. He will practically have a fighters hitpoints and get an additional attack each round from being level 9. And then there's the backstab ability...
My favourite for weapon choice would be Celestial Fury and, once he gets Use any item, the Scarlet Ninja-to in the off-hand.
I think your best choice would be a multi-class Fighter/Thief thanks to backstabbing, High Level Abilities (including Use Any Item), and thieving skills. You won't have any complaints about the damage output.
Swashbucklers are decent in combat, but they only get one attack per round and they have fewer hit points than the warrior classes. Barbarians are a little bit better when it comes to damage output (with an extra half attack per round), and they have access to the warrior pool of High Level Abilities. Kensais have the most attacks per round out of the classes you have considered, but the prohibition against armor is frustrating.
Another class you might consider is the Blade. It's a very powerful class, but you have to learn how to use buffing spells (Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Improved Haste, Tenser's Transformation, etc.) and special abilities (e.g., Melf's Minute Meteors combined with Offensive Spin) to get the most out of it.
When you select weapon proficiencies, you might consider an idea that was posted a few years ago by a member named Mirk(?). If you dual-wield the scimitars named Belm and Scarlet Ninja-to (which requires Use Any Item), you'll have two extra attacks with your main hand (you only get one attack with your offhand). You could also dual-wield Crom Faeyr and Celestial Fury, a combination that receives endless praise from munchkins.
Swashbucklers are decent in combat, but they only get one attack per round and they have fewer hit points than the warrior classes. Barbarians are a little bit better when it comes to damage output (with an extra half attack per round), and they have access to the warrior pool of High Level Abilities. Kensais have the most attacks per round out of the classes you have considered, but the prohibition against armor is frustrating.
Another class you might consider is the Blade. It's a very powerful class, but you have to learn how to use buffing spells (Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Improved Haste, Tenser's Transformation, etc.) and special abilities (e.g., Melf's Minute Meteors combined with Offensive Spin) to get the most out of it.
When you select weapon proficiencies, you might consider an idea that was posted a few years ago by a member named Mirk(?). If you dual-wield the scimitars named Belm and Scarlet Ninja-to (which requires Use Any Item), you'll have two extra attacks with your main hand (you only get one attack with your offhand). You could also dual-wield Crom Faeyr and Celestial Fury, a combination that receives endless praise from munchkins.
I recommend a fighter/thief multiclass (halflings are the best, but any race can do) or a fighter/mage/thief.
If you have ToB installed a swashbuckler should be able to do more damage using the whirlwind HLA than Korgan using greater whirlwind because of the swashbuckler bonusses. I didn't try it out myself but 10 attacks per round with the holy avenger (use any item HLA) should be quite deadly.
But in SoA or for the first 3,300,000 XP or so there's no chance to compete with a fighter. Only 1 base attack per round in the specialised weapon compared to 2 (fighter 7-12) or 2.5 (fighter13+) is poor, but you can still have 2 main hand attacks per round with the right off-hand weapon (belm or kundane).
A fighter dualclassed to thief right at the start alreadys get most fighter bonusses including 2 attacks per round. He doesn't get the swashbuckler damage bonusses and gets less XP for lockpicking and disarming but can do evil backstabbing and gets an extra attack per round.
All 4 variants can do serious damage, choose what you want.
For Korgan I recommend using belm or kundane in the off-hand for the extra attack instead of another axe as long as you don't use greater whirlwind.
He can put *** into dualwielding but more than ** is wasted.
This advice does also apply to your main char.
If you have ToB installed a swashbuckler should be able to do more damage using the whirlwind HLA than Korgan using greater whirlwind because of the swashbuckler bonusses. I didn't try it out myself but 10 attacks per round with the holy avenger (use any item HLA) should be quite deadly.
But in SoA or for the first 3,300,000 XP or so there's no chance to compete with a fighter. Only 1 base attack per round in the specialised weapon compared to 2 (fighter 7-12) or 2.5 (fighter13+) is poor, but you can still have 2 main hand attacks per round with the right off-hand weapon (belm or kundane).
A fighter dualclassed to thief right at the start alreadys get most fighter bonusses including 2 attacks per round. He doesn't get the swashbuckler damage bonusses and gets less XP for lockpicking and disarming but can do evil backstabbing and gets an extra attack per round.
All 4 variants can do serious damage, choose what you want.
For Korgan I recommend using belm or kundane in the off-hand for the extra attack instead of another axe as long as you don't use greater whirlwind.
He can put *** into dualwielding but more than ** is wasted.
This advice does also apply to your main char.
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RPG Guy (sorta)
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Keep in mind that there are only 2 decent magical axes in SoA and one is a throwing (boomerang) weapon. So, you'll probably end up dual-weilding a war hammer + axe rather than axe + axe.Kharas wrote: Korgan - hopefully being able to dual wield axes (is it possible for Korgan to have three points in two weapon style thingie?)
Good luck - Korgan rules!
I'd recommend a multi or dual classed Fighter/Thief as well. If you're very adventurous, play a Fighter/Mage/Thief.
If you're going to be a Male, make him a Half-Elf NOT a full-blooded Elf (or else you miss out on the fun Viccy romance). Viccy also goes for Humans, Half-Orcs and Halflings, BTW.
You can live without having a Thief, but the game feels a whole lot better if you have one.
Another option is to add Yoshimo or Imoen to your party. Neither will leave because of Evil acts or low reputation. Jan Jansen fits here as well.
BTW, IMHO there's only one really good longsword, and it's best used as an offhand weapon. I recommend some points in Katana (if you're part-Thief) or just a good old Flail if you're a straight Fighter.
If you're going to be a Male, make him a Half-Elf NOT a full-blooded Elf (or else you miss out on the fun Viccy romance). Viccy also goes for Humans, Half-Orcs and Halflings, BTW.
You can live without having a Thief, but the game feels a whole lot better if you have one.
Another option is to add Yoshimo or Imoen to your party. Neither will leave because of Evil acts or low reputation. Jan Jansen fits here as well.
BTW, IMHO there's only one really good longsword, and it's best used as an offhand weapon. I recommend some points in Katana (if you're part-Thief) or just a good old Flail if you're a straight Fighter.
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And you'll be even better off this way!RPG Guy (sorta) wrote:Keep in mind that there are only 2 decent magical axes in SoA and one is a throwing (boomerang) weapon. So, you'll probably end up dual-weilding a war hammer + axe rather than axe + axe.
Good luck - Korgan rules!
Don't sweat the dual-weilding, Korgan is best with a Shield until you find the Uber-Hammer.
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
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(Sorry, I'm a bit new to advanced BGII gaming) - Right, now what's a blade?VonDondu wrote:Another class you might consider is the Blade.
Is it a Kensai/mage?Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Stonefire (+3 axe with fire damage, bought at the Copper Coronet) pretty decent?Keep in mind that there are only 2 decent magical axes in SoA and one is a throwing (boomerang) weapon.
I was under the impression, that three points was an absolute must, why isn't the last point worth much?He can put *** into dualwielding but more than ** is wasted.
This advice does also apply to your main char.
Come to think of it, Valygar only has two points spent in I think.
But yeah, looks like I might start a new game. Bah! I gotta kill thoose damned stone golems with a +4 short sword again! Oh the pain!
A Blade is a Bard kit. It's very powerful, but needs a whole lot of attention and micromanagement to be so. I only recommend these for experienced players.
Stonefire is a pretty good axe, but you'll find one moderately better.
I don't think *** is wasted, but I wouldn't place a very high priority on it.
** gives a -4 to hit with the offhand weapon. *** gives a -2 penalty. Since you only attack 1/round with the offhand weapon, it doesn't really matter too much. As a matter of fact, my advice is "If you're dualweilding for one more attack, you're better off with a shield instead." There are many very good offhand weapons that provide other bonuses as well. The hammer I mentioned for Korgan is one of these, as is the longsword I recommend for the character you're creating now. Only get that third * after you are proficient in all the other weapons you want to be. It's nice icing on the cake, but is far from essential.
Of course, if you're dualweilding just cuz it looks cool, more power to ya!
Stonefire is a pretty good axe, but you'll find one moderately better.
I don't think *** is wasted, but I wouldn't place a very high priority on it.
** gives a -4 to hit with the offhand weapon. *** gives a -2 penalty. Since you only attack 1/round with the offhand weapon, it doesn't really matter too much. As a matter of fact, my advice is "If you're dualweilding for one more attack, you're better off with a shield instead." There are many very good offhand weapons that provide other bonuses as well. The hammer I mentioned for Korgan is one of these, as is the longsword I recommend for the character you're creating now. Only get that third * after you are proficient in all the other weapons you want to be. It's nice icing on the cake, but is far from essential.
Of course, if you're dualweilding just cuz it looks cool, more power to ya!
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
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Jedi_Sauraus
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Dual wielding with Korgan is worth it after you get a single star in the fighting style. the offhand penalty doesn't matter since it's 1 APR only anyway.
generally, you want to dualwield Stonefire ?? (axe from copper corronet) offhand and the axe from Nalia's keep in the main hand. I personally add 2 stars to DW then 1 extra to hammers making 2. He usually duals Crom and AoU
Edit: Klorox was probably refering to Blackrazor or Equilizer. IMO equilizer is a bad choice because IIRC the fixpacks nerfs the bug which assigned the +6 bonus to the main hand as well. Even with the bug Blackrazor or Belm are better but belm is a scimitar and only +2
generally, you want to dualwield Stonefire ?? (axe from copper corronet) offhand and the axe from Nalia's keep in the main hand. I personally add 2 stars to DW then 1 extra to hammers making 2. He usually duals Crom and AoU
Edit: Klorox was probably refering to Blackrazor or Equilizer. IMO equilizer is a bad choice because IIRC the fixpacks nerfs the bug which assigned the +6 bonus to the main hand as well. Even with the bug Blackrazor or Belm are better but belm is a scimitar and only +2
I guess you don't mind a penalty with your main-hand weapon then, which you will suffer with only * in TWF.Jedi_Sauraus wrote:Dual wielding with Korgan is worth it after you get a single star in the fighting style. the offhand penalty doesn't matter since it's 1 APR only anyway.
I guess you don't agree with the whole "an extra attack" schpiel that I said.Jedi_Sauraus wrote:generally, you want to dualwield Stonefire ?? (axe from copper corronet) offhand and the axe from Nalia's keep in the main hand. I personally add 2 stars to DW then 1 extra to hammers making 2. He usually duals Crom and AoU
I was referring to Equalizer, but I was trying to avoid spoiling this guy because he didn't ask for spoilers. The fixpack doesn't nerf the weapon at all, and even if it did, the weapon is still a worthy one because of the immunities it confers. Blackrazor is a terrible offhand weapon, and while Belm is good, it's loses it's greatness once you start getting GWW's.Jedi_Sauraus wrote:Edit: Klorox was probably refering to Blackrazor or Equilizer. IMO equilizer is a bad choice because IIRC the fixpacks nerfs the bug which assigned the +6 bonus to the main hand as well. Even with the bug Blackrazor or Belm are better but belm is a scimitar and only +2
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
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Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
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