Question to fellow escapists

[AvatarOfLight]

The topic title pretty much speaks for itself. This one is just for the escapists amongst us. An RPG forum is generally a good place to look for escapists, but I am not implying everyone or even the majority of the gamers are

I'm not quite sure how to put this. Are any of you incapable of really displaying anger? I'm not talking about feeling anger, frustration or even hate, but only the venting of it on other people. I basically never get angry or lash out, let alone go berserk no matter how badly I'm provoked. I just feel it might have a lot to do with the fact that I consider fantasy worlds closer to MY world than the real one. It's not that I don't care enough to get angry over things. It's just that even at the peek of inner rage nothing seems important enough to speak out for or take action. I wonder if anyone shares this.

*cough* As you were!

[kathycf]

I can't say that I do. While I think I do have escapist tendencies, I am afraid I have somewhat bad temper. It typically crops up when I feel that I have been treated unfairly or if someone I care about has.

If it is an issue that there is a lot of dissension about I may or may not add my opinion.

[Tricky]

I have escapist tendencies, but I do not think it is anger I am escaping from. Frustration and work related stress are reasons for me to escape the real world, but not anger. I am not prone to it either, I think I am a bit more easy-going than most. That being said, I do know anger and there are definitely some people who should fear for their safety in my presence. That's why they live all the way out in Zeeland.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Avatar, why did you connect escapism with anger or "inability to display anger"? Are you sure these two things are related?

[dragon wench]

I suppose I can sometimes have escapist tendencies, but releasing anger is not a problem for me... Indeed, the reverse is probably true. I have a truly nasty temper, and while I've learned to better control it over the past five years or so, it still sometimes rears its ugly head.

Oh, btw Avatar,
welcome to the forums

[fable]

I'd answer your question, but it doesn't seem to be aimed at me. I'm certainly not an "escapist," though I do occasionally play (and review) RPGs.

[Claudius]

Lashing out in anger doesn't help it only makes things worse. Patience is a balancing factor. Anger is impermenant. It has causes. Remove the cause. Ethics, concentration, understanding n intention (ie wisdom)

As far as anger goes I think half the battle is won when you decide that anger leads to suffering. The next step is to apply the antidotes and they can actually be effective in my experience. Even the da lai lama admits that he gets angry, but probably for him it only lasts like 2 seconds haha. It is part of relative practice where you remove obstacles and build up merit.

A second key I think is to realize when you are irritated or angry. Just by this possibility all of the sudden a space is created. A part of you is angry but another part is noticing the anger and that part is pure. So awareness is brought. Its kind of like meditation. You don't say 'god I'm a jerk for being angry' you just say 'aha I'm angry that could be a problem'. I think each individual must experiment with antidotes to see what is working.

Escapism is a fermentation of stress or dissatisfaction as is anger. Another fermentation is craving or having something to cover the stress. Anger is when you want to obliterate something to cover the stress.

"Some people feel patience is showing weakness or pessimism. But, actually, patience shows the strength and clarity of mind, which are based on wisdom and compassion. Without proper wisdom and compassion, one cannot practice patience."
Khenpo Konchog Gyaltsen Rinpoche
Anger

Anyhow thats my perspective which was influenced by Buddhism.

Now something just for fun:
"Grant me the stubbornness to change what I can, the laziness to accept what I cannot, and enough beer to sit around and endlessly discuss the difference between the two."
Dick Dunn

[Chimaera182]

I tend to be pretty passive and just simmer in my own juices. For example, a few years ago I became convinced a friend of mine had stabbed me in the back. But when I saw him the next day all I did was stand there quietly and listen to him talk, although he did comment on my looking rather pissed. I tend to bottle up my feelings and just don't vent them. Usually if someone pissed me off (and other friends of mine as well) we talk about them behind their backs and make fun of them, but that hardly constitutes venting anger. But lately...

I have been stuck in classes for the last three semesters with people I cannot stand. All last year, there was a complete and total moron in two of my classes both semesters, and every time he opened his mouth it was like pure stupidity was pouring out and into my ears (I have yet to meet someone who genuinely liked this person). But I held my cool. This is my first semester free of that one, but I got saddled with someone worse. The problem is, although he is very annoying, he is actually disabled (I don't know how, I just know he can't take his exams with us because he's registered at the Office for Students with Disabilities, and he's mentioned before he was on Ritalin). Ever since January, my friends in the back corner of the classroom will mock him, but last week I actually began to feel pity for him. I mean, he's genuinely messed up, it's not exactly right to mock the mentally handicapped. But last Friday, I don't know what it was--the lack of sleep, most likely--but I couldn't tolerate him. So when he began saying stupid things, I definitely didn't care if he heard me or not. Yesterday, he and I nearly came to blows because he angered me so much. We slung insults at one another (I told him his mother should have used protection, which elicited quite a reaction to the one friend in the corner area who was present to hear it [she said she felt sorry for him, but she couldn't stop laughing, either]). Then, this guy threw a paper airplane he found on the floor at me, then claimed proudly that he did it on purpose because he didn't like me (he told me this because, he said, I didn't like him). Insults were pretty much hurled at him, but nothing else came of it. But I can definitely see me getting into a physical row with him, which will of course not be pleasant because a.) I'll probably beat him senseless (I don't mean in a me boasting about my physical prowess way, I mean I will seriously injure him in as brutal a way as possible) and b.) the entire class is going to become sympathetic with him, since I'm basically a healthy person beating on someone with a disability.

Also, if I'm playing my PS2, I experience gamer rage. I don't know what it is about me, but if I am fighting a boss, I think I'm just prepared to lose so I don't get angry when I die (even if it's 30 times, although I don't think I've ever had it that bad before). But if I am fighting some lower-level things, just regular run of the mill enemies and I die, I get mad. If it happens often at the same place, I get furious. My PS2 now has a rattling noise inside of it because of the amount of times I have thrown the controller. The piece of plastic that covers the batteries no longer stays in place voluntarily because I broke it; I had to tape it down. Even my mouse bears the scars of my gamer rage.

So yes, I do have trouble expressing my rage.

[Jeff_31]

I seldom display my anger, for 2 reasons:

-I really seldom feel angry with something. 90% of "problems" are not real ones for me, so I try to avoid conflicts, almost never shout at someone...
I might feel angry when problems deal with personal feelings, and that's about it.
(one of the consequences is that I usually can't stand people who complain all the time)

- My parents taught me to restrain myself and abstain from displaying my anger too much. Must be why I can keep the control of my nerves.

[AvatarOfLight]

First of all thanks a lot for the replies! Wow, just wow. I'll reply to a few.

Avatar, why did you connect escapism with anger or "inability to display anger"? Are you sure these two things are related?

No, I am not at all sure. It's just that severe escapism and never showing anger are two key defining traits in me and I am curious to find out if they are connected.

I suppose I can sometimes have escapist tendencies, but releasing anger is not a problem for me...

Indeed, the reverse is probably true. I have a truly nasty temper, and while I've learned to better control it over the past five years or so, it still sometimes rears its ugly head.

Oh, btw Avatar,
welcome to the forums

It's a funny thing that you seem to want to have more control over it. It's much the same on my end. I don't have any more control over it than you do. I'm just calm when I feel I should enrage. The extremes are always to be avoided I guess, but don't be too quick to consider the ability to really vent anger every now and then a bad thing. Anyway! Thanks for the welcome, I considered posting an introduction thread, but dismissed it earlier. I'll post one in the bio section now though.

Lashing out in anger doesn't help it only makes things worse. Patience is a balancing factor. Anger

is impermenant. It has causes. Remove the cause. Ethics, concentration, understanding n intention (ie wisdom)

As far as anger goes I think half the battle is won when you decide that anger leads to suffering. The next step is to apply the antidotes and they can actually be effective in my experience. Even the da lai lama admits that he gets angry, but probably for him it only lasts like 2 seconds haha. It is part of relative practice where you remove obstacles and build up merit.

A second key I think is to realize when you are irritated or angry. Just by this possibility all of the sudden a space is created. A part of you is angry but another part is noticing the anger and that part is pure. So awareness is brought. Its kind of like meditation. You don't say 'god I'm a jerk for being angry' you just say 'aha I'm angry that could be a problem'. I think each individual must experiment with antidotes to see what is working.

Escapism is a fermentation of stress or dissatisfaction as is anger. Another fermentation is craving or having something to cover the stress. Anger is when you want to obliterate something to cover the stress.

"Some people feel patience is showing weakness or pessimism. But, actually, patience shows the strength and clarity of mind,

which are based on wisdom and compassion. Without proper wisdom and compassion, one cannot practice patience."
Khenpo Konchog Gyaltsen Rinpoche
Anger

Anyhow thats my perspective which was influenced by Buddhism.

Now something just for fun:
"Grant me the stubbornness to change what I can, the laziness to accept what I cannot, and enough beer to sit around and

endlessly discuss the difference between the two."
Dick Dunn

I strongly agree with a lot you say, however I really can't claim to follow the high path and have control over this. I am no less a slave to it, than a person that can't help but instantly vent his frustrations on others (though I'm probably far luckier to be on this side). Regardless I think your perspective is thought through and the world would benefit from more people following it. On a sidenote: I tend to "meditate" twice as week just to clear my mind. It has little to with getting rid of anger. I just experience a strong loss of focus and slight anxiety. It could however be related in the end.

I tend to be pretty passive and just simmer in my own juices. For example, a few years ago I became convinced a friend of mine had stabbed me in the back. But when I saw him the next day all I did was stand there quietly and listen to him talk, although he did comment on my looking rather pissed. I tend to bottle up my feelings and just don't vent them. Usually if someone pissed me off (and other friends of mine as well) we talk about them behind their

backs and make fun of them, but that hardly constitutes venting anger. But lately...

I have been stuck in classes for the last three semesters with people I cannot stand. All last year, there was a complete and total moron in two of my classes both semesters, and every time he opened his mouth it was like pure stupidity was pouring out and into my ears (I have yet to meet someone who genuinely liked this person). But I held my cool. This is my first semester free of that one, but I got saddled with someone worse. The problem is, although he is very annoying, he is
actually disabled (I don't know how, I just know he can't take his exams with us because he's registered at the Office for Students with Disabilities, and he's mentioned before he was on Ritalin). Ever since January, my friends in the back corner of the classroom will mock him, but last week I actually began to feel pity for him. I mean, he's genuinely messed up, it's
not exactly right to mock the mentally handicapped. But last Friday, I don't know what it was--the lack of sleep, most likely--but I couldn't tolerate him. So when he began saying stupid things, I definitely didn't care if he heard me or not.

Yesterday, he and I nearly came to blows because he angered me so much. We slung insults at one another (I told him his mother should have used protection, which elicited quite a reaction to the one friend in the corner area who was present to hear it [she said she felt sorry for him, but she couldn't stop laughing, either]). Then, this guy threw a paper airplane he found on the floor at me, then claimed proudly that he did it on purpose because he didn't like me (he told me this because, he said, I didn't like him). Insults were pretty much hurled at him, but nothing else came of it. But I can definitely see me getting into a physical row with him, which will of course not be pleasant because a.) I'll probably beat him senseless (I don't mean in a me boasting about my physical prowess way, I mean I will seriously injure him in as brutal a way as possible) and b.) the entire class is going to become sympathetic with him, since I'm basically a healthy person beating on someone
with a disability.

Also, if I'm playing my PS2, I experience gamer rage. I don't know what it is about me, but if I am fighting a boss, I think I'm just prepared to lose so I don't get angry when I die (even if it's 30 times, although I don't think I've ever had it that bad before). But if I am fighting some lower-level things, just regular run of the mill enemies and I die, I get mad.

If it happens often at the same place, I get furious. My PS2 now has a rattling noise inside of it because of the amount of times I have thrown the controller. The piece of plastic that covers the batteries no longer stays in place voluntarily because I broke it; I had to tape it down. Even my mouse bears the scars of my gamer rage.

So yes, I do have trouble expressing my rage.

Quite the story indeed. I'm not sure which games you play but do you feel like you can actually vent your frustrations in games or are they more often the cause of them? For me they're part of escapism, but there really isn't any anger to vent.

I seldom display my anger, for 2 reasons:

-I really seldom feel angry with something. 90% of "problems" are not real ones for me, so I try to avoid conflicts, almost never shout at someone...
I might feel angry when problems deal with personal feelings, and that's about it.
(one of the consequences is that I usually can't stand people who complain all the time)

- My parents taught me to restrain myself and abstain from displaying my anger too much. Must be why I can keep the control of my nerves.

You've given only a short reply, but yours sounds most like my case. I was always taught to avoid conflicts whenever possible, but to fight back when hit (physically). On a sidenote, believe me that is a good philosophy. I believe pacifism, though admirable, is too Utopian to work IRL. But I'm getting off topic sorry! Anyway, Jeff. Do you feel it's possible that you (and indeed me) have been taught to control anger so well you instantly do it subconsciously? It really isn't a choice for me.



Disclaimer: I always just work with what I read (and think I read between the lines). I by no means think I know who you are, what you value or how you think. <3 for replies. It's good to broaden my (and hopefully your) perspectives.

[Claudius]

Interested in your experience with meditation. Heres something I learned from a teacher....

"Because we are potentially pure Mind, mentally attending to the body calms it down and makes it peaceful and less violent."

[Jeff_31]

You've given only a short reply, but yours sounds most like my case. I was always taught to avoid conflicts whenever possible, but to fight back when hit (physically). On a sidenote, believe me that is a good philosophy. I believe pacifism, though admirable, is too Utopian to work IRL. But I'm getting off topic sorry! Anyway, Jeff. Do you feel it's possible that you (and indeed me) have been taught to control anger so well you instantly do it subconsciously? It really isn't a choice for me.

I keep the control of my nerves but am totally able, at the same time, to make things "clear" with other people when necessary. I inherited this from my father - words can harm more anything else, sometimes.

[AvatarOfLight]

Interested in your experience with meditation. Heres something I learned from a teacher....

"Because we are potentially pure Mind, mentally attending to the body calms it down and makes it peaceful and less violent."

I'm afraid I don't have any great revelations or wisdom to share on meditation. I won't bore you with my starting story anyway. For me it's just a great way to at least temporarily take away pain, get my priorities straight in the chaos that is my head and just relax. It's basically a way to get back to 0 (much like sleeping) in the middle of the day and decide where to go from there.

[C Elegans]

I am not an escapist at all, rather the opposite, and I don't play computer games as escapism either so perhaps I shouldn't reply at all in this thread. I do however have quite a bit of knowledge about general human behaviour, so I reply from that perspective.

I'm not quite sure how to put this. Are any of you incapable of really displaying anger? I'm not talking about feeling anger, frustration or even hate, but only the venting of it on other people. I basically never get angry or lash out, let alone go berserk no matter how badly I'm provoked. I just feel it might have a lot to do with the fact that I consider fantasy worlds closer to MY world than the real one. It's not that I don't care enough to get angry over things. It's just that even at the peek of inner rage nothing seems important enough to speak out for or take action. I wonder if anyone shares this.

I don't think there is any relationship between escapism and the ability or need to express anger. What I do think is that some people may feel freer to act in fantasy worlds than in the real world, and this may be a reason why they experience difficulties with expressing certain emotions, personality traits or other behaviour patterns in the real world.

Anger is a basic emotion, just like happiness, sadness or fear, and it is not negative per se, it is a response involving certain functions and behaviours that aid our survival in certain situations. The increased arousal level including increased heart rate and blood pressure, the release of stress hormones like adrenaline and norepinephrine that makes us stronger and less pain sensitive and the unpleasant psychological experience are all meant to drive us to act. Anger is like a stress response, its' function is to elicit imminent action and bottling up and going around in a chronic state of low or moderate anger or stress, is unhealthy.

The best way to deal with anger is to use the immediate energy rush to change the situation that made you angry. This however does not at all necessarily mean one should use violence or lash our at people in a hostile way. In most situations, there are other, more efficient ways to express ones anger.

Something I don't really understand is that you describe fantasy worlds as closer to "your" world than the real world. I am not sure what you mean by this. Obviously, we all live in our subjective worlds where we experience and perceive things our own unique way. However, what we experience has a strong association and is dependent on, what happens in the "objective", real world. So how do you differentiate between "your" world and "the real world"? Don't you feel you live in "the real world"?

[xxslainxx]

Anger is like a stress response, its' function is to elicit imminent action and bottling up and going around in a chronic state of low or moderate anger or stress, is unhealthy.

I am not sure if I understand what you mean. Are you trying to say that failing to manifest your anger into actions or words is unhealthy?

If that is what you are saying here. It is only partly true, but it also depends on how you chose to deal with the anger. If you are one to reconcile with your anger and the one you are angry with, and ask yourself the simple question we have all be shunned for asking as children; "why", "why am i angry? and is it worth it?"; there is no harm that can come of it.

On the other hand if you are to bottle it up inside without coming to terms with it, that is a prelude to disaster.

[AvatarOfLight]

Something I don't really understand is that you describe fantasy worlds as closer to "your" world than the real world. I am not sure what you mean by this. Obviously, we all live in our subjective worlds where we experience and perceive things our own unique way. However, what we experience has a strong association and is dependent on, what happens in the "objective", real world. So how do you differentiate between "your" world and "the real world"? Don't you feel you live in "the real world"?

Quite simply it means that I live mostly for games, movies, books and the experiences/joy I get from them. Bluntly: I mostly live/work to be able to acquire and enjoy more Fantasy, more so than I enjoy it beside my life. I do have some friends and it's Fantasy isn't the only thing I care about, but it easily makes nr 1.

[dragon wench]

It's a funny thing that you seem to want to have more control over it. It's much the same on my end. I don't have any more control over it than you do. I'm just calm when I feel I should enrage. The extremes are always to be avoided I guess, but don't be too quick to consider the ability to really vent anger every now and then a bad thing. Anyway! Thanks for the welcome, I considered posting an introduction thread, but dismissed it earlier. I'll post one in the bio section now though.

Well, I've found that releasing my temper while in a blind rage is, in general, neither productive nor constructive... Sure for a brief moment you feel better after having exploded, but that is only temporary... It doesn't take long until you begin feeling stupid for having lost control like that.
(Or, at least, that is my experience anyway)

Also, when you are visibly angry, yet still very controlled, it tends to be far more effective in getting your point across, and it usually engenders more respect.

This is not to say that I don't utterly lose my cool every so often. I do. But, I generally avoid letting go with the people who really matter to me. Now, during the rare occasions where I fly off of the handle, it is with somebody who can't impact my life in any way.... and they have to truly deserve it.
Even in that situation, icy cold anger just works so much better, and it is what I aim for.

I find, if I honestly need to rid myself of anger that is bubbling up out of control, I'm best to spend a few hours in the gym...

Quite simply it means that I live mostly for games, movies, books and the experiences/joy I get from them. Bluntly: I mostly live/work to be able to acquire and enjoy more Fantasy, more so than I enjoy it beside my life. I do have some friends and it's Fantasy isn't the only thing I care about, but it easily makes nr 1.

I have to be honest.... reading this concerns me...
Clearly, it is your life.. but you may want to think about acquiring new hobbies and interests that involve real people and real life, preferably something that requires you to go outdoors. AS CE will likely tell you as well, spending most of your time inside engaged in fantasy isn't healthy and it tends to contribute significantly to depression.

[Claudius]

I had a strong reaction to the claim that anger is not negative. I feel that anger invariably leads to suffering (Edit: reading my post I can see this is not always true..I retain it for an example of my mode of thinking). I will add that there are wisdom qualities in anger too. Actually, when you remove the view of yourself and the object of your anger as being non-connected the emotion anger is transformed from what I have read. An ability to see through obstacles and see the impermanence and interconnectedness of 'objects' as arisings. Bubbles apearing from water designated by names. This can manifest as a certain creativity. But the stress and rage of anger are dangerous. I could be irritable one day and be unable to control myself when someone 'pushes a button'. This could have consequences on not just them but me too as we have relationships.

Edit: to tie it in to your topic Avatar I think awareness has some relationship to the appropriate handling of anger. Escapism is in my view a lack of awareness in some respects, since awareness is related to feeling things as they are in the present and opening to them.

I'll add the following thoughts from my teacher, Lama Shenpen Hookam:

Summary: Looking at how we can relate to anger differently by noticing it arising in the space of awareness and letting it be. How anger can be a compassionate response and come from a wish to respond in a kind and sensitive way. How this relates to non-violent communication.


A student writes:

"At work I was very upset in December by the behavior of my colleague at work and business partner.

I feel that he abused my trust and behaved very selfish and undermined the work I have strived to achieve together with him over the last year.

This has upset me and I often feel anger and resentment.

Often I observe these thoughts in my mind and I practice awareness and breathing, also during my morning meditation these upsetting thoughts occur.

Do you have any advice to how I can practice letting go of this resentment and anger?"

Lama Shenpen:

Meditation and awareness practice help in letting go of anger and upsetting thoughts because you learn to notice them arising in the space of awareness and you identify with the space of awareness and not the thought or feeling of anger or whatever it is.

You notice all that coming up and you turn towards it all and even embrace it and welcome it - 'Oh hello anger, hello same old thoughts going round and round'.

As you turn to welcome it all you notice what exactly the experience of anger is, how long it lasts, where in the body it is, how it breaks down into a series of different feelings and how whole thought worlds spring up each time you touch on those feelings.

Sometimes you can trace the anger to a feeling in the body and the thoughts that trigger a certain kind of physical reaction.

What is important about all of this is that it just arises as a display in the space of awareness and none of it in itself is a problem - the problem comes in not wanting these feelings and so trying to fight them.

If instead you let them be - they spread out and become less heavy and 'real' - less solid and opaque - more alive and transparent and interesting actually.

They are elusive and change all the time and leave you feeling more open and somehow simple - sad you may be, but it’s not a big deal to be sad.

It’s not a problem in itself.

Feeling sad can actually be inspiring and lead to quite creative responses.

Sometimes you find there is fear there in the anger and that the anger is more about fear than anything else.

Then you can explore that fear reaction and just let it be, let the sadness be and then open out into the space of awareness with a kind of confidence that is willing to allow whatever is be as it is and that creates a space.

From that spacious place it’s possible to respond in quite a different way to the way you would respond from a place of anger.

And yet even the anger itself is a kind of compassionate response isn’t it?

It’s a compassionate response to yourself as a way of protecting and caring for yourself.

It comes from a wish to respond in a kind and sensitive way but something has got in the way - the lack of confidence and tension makes it difficult to respond in the way you really want to respond.

So it’s good to think about how you really would like to respond.

It is good to look into your heart for what it is you really want.

You may find that what you really want is to be able to communicate with this person better - to connect to their heart somehow.

That is where the NVC training that is mentioned in the recent newsletter can be very helpful in training ourselves to not react too quickly but to create a space and learn how to raise issues with other people in a way that they can hear what we are saying.

It is not true to think that the only way to practice patience is to give in to other people all the time.

I find this very interesting and quite an eye-opener actually.

--- By Lama Shenpen Hookham

[AvatarOfLight]

I have to be honest.... reading this concerns me...
Clearly, it is your life.. but you may want to think about acquiring new hobbies and interests that involve real people and real life, preferably something that requires you to go outdoors. AS CE will likely tell you as well, spending most of your time inside engaged in fantasy isn't healthy and it tends to contribute significantly to depression.

I would never claim it to be normal or healthy. Events in my life just sort of pushed me into this direction and I've been unwilling to change it. I'm cool with it.

[dragon wench]

I would never claim it to be normal or healthy. Events in my life just sort of pushed me into this direction and I've been unwilling to change it. I'm cool with it.

Trust me.... I empathise...
I guess being on the other side of that now it is probably easy for me to look at it that way
And, if you are comfortable being where you are, that is what counts.