Romances - any and all questions welcomed!

Ariona · Post by **Ariona** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:54 pm

*ahem*

Could someone please help me out with understanding the romance aspect? I have no idea who can romance whom, and how to make this aspect more fun and interesting.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:14 pm

Males get Viconia, Aerie, or Jaheira, but females are stuck with...Anomen.

Mind, there are several mods that improve the situation. Some add new NPCs with their own romances; others, like one for Edwin, add a romance element to an existing character. Can't say I've tried that; I've no desire in any case to see the come-on lines of a reptile.

EDIT: Oh--and what that's worth, there is a mod that lets you run all romances concurrently, if that's your game, and another that creates some excellent romances in BG1, very much along the lines of those in BG2.

Ariona · Post by **Ariona** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:42 pm

fable wrote:Males get Viconia, Aerie, or Jaheira, but females are stuck with...Anomen. Mind, there are several mods that improve the situation. Some add new NPCs with their own romances; others, like one for Edwin, add a romance element to an existing character. Can't say I've tried that; I've no desire in any case to see the come-on lines of a reptile.

EDIT: Oh--and what that's worth, there is a mod that lets you run all romances concurrently, if that's your game, and another that creates some excellent romances in BG1, very much along the lines of those in BG2.

A reptilian mod? Never heard of that one before!

Dragon Wench sent me to a site that would allow me to download the Tsujatha mod, however, it's in a format that my computer can't read. Any suggestions? Right now, I'd only be interested in downloading that one mod...for starters!

RPG Guy (sorta) · Post by **RPG Guy (sorta)** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:46 pm

Personally, I don't understand the romance aspect of the game. Even just using the word 'romance' with respect to a PC game seems just plain wrong...in an Internet porn kind of way (I keed, I keed).

People might defend the notion as being an integral part of the 'roleplaying' experience but if anything, in my humble opinion, it crashes the buzz within the BG context. I mean, are you going to get it on with Minsc and Boo (or Jan and Edwin) just a napsack away? In a dungeon? On the dirt? After some ogre-killin? blech, blech and blech.

What if the Slayer breaks out uncontrollably during the event? Run Boo Run!!! How do you get 'romantic' with no soul? With the taint?

And here's the obligatory wand of monster summoning reference (I keed, I keed).

Anyways, if it gives you some extra XP then cool I guess but you won't catch this cat within 10 dialogue lines of a romance quest.

/rant

Ariona · Post by **Ariona** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:55 pm

RPG Guy (sorta) wrote:Personally, I don't understand the romance aspect of the game. Even just using the word 'romance' with respect to a PC game seems just plain wrong...in an Internet porn kind of way (I keed, I keed).

People might defend the notion as being an integral part of the 'roleplaying' experience but if anything, in my humble opinion, it crashes the buzz within the BG context. I mean, are you going to get it on with Minsc and Boo (or Jan and Edwin) just a napsack away? In a dungeon? On the dirt? After some ogre-killin? blech, blech and blech.

What if the Slayer breaks out uncontrollably during the event? Run Boo Run!!! How do you get 'romantic' with no soul? With the taint?

And here's the obligatory wand of monster summoning reference (I keed, I keed).

Anyways, if it gives you some extra XP then cool I guess but you won't catch this cat within 10 dialogue lines of a romance quest.

/rant

I can certainly understand your logic on this matter. And for some, that's ok. But for me, I enjoy playing the game so much that I'd like to see if I can stretch the boundaries. I know it's not real life action going on...it's animation. So, I can take things like RPG romances with a grain of salt. To me, what's fun is seeing how far you can take it on these types of games without crashing your computer!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:13 pm

Ariona wrote:Dragon Wench sent me to a site that would allow me to download the Tsujatha mod, however, it's in a format that my computer can't read. Any suggestions? Right now, I'd only be interested in downloading that one mod...for starters!

I have to ask, what do you mean that your computer can't read the format?
Do you mean that the file is packaged in something that your computer can't open? For example Tsujatha, when you download the mod is contained in a WinAce file (as opposed to Winzip), is that what you mean?

If this is the case, I highly recommend a nifty little programme called:
[url="http://www.zipgenius.it/eng/index.php"]Zip Genius[/url]. It enables you to open practically any packaged files, it's free, and it doesn't contain spyware.

p.s my apologies for not replying to that PM on the subject sooner, my life is a bit nutty and I've gotten bad at PMs

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:47 am

@RPG Guy, I'd say you get exactly the same thing in most movies, no? Just how often does your typical uber-macho hero wash before he takes his woman to bed? And how often do you see the woman take a shower afterwards? And what about lovemaking on a desert/swamp/in a car?

IMO, there's no point in going into details of technical nature, because it's a roleplaying game, and you can imagine all you want. Actually, on my first BG2 run I didn't know there was romance option at all, and instead I imagined a small story about my PC and one of the men in her party (guess who? :laugh: )... I might have it written down somewhere...

I like BG romances, all of them

. Mostly, you can't get a romance when playing pen&paper, unless you play with your partner. They add something you won't find in other games

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:02 am

As long as your character is the right sex and the right race, the romances begin automatically. If more than one NPC is trying to romance you, the game will force you to make a choice at some point. They'll start an argument and you'll have to tell one of them to shut up.

The Happy Patch will let you romance all of the Bioware NPCs concurrently (I guess it lets you avoid the arguments between them), but it doesn't work with some mods. Saerileth is the only one I'm sure about. If you romance Saerileth, all of the other romances will halt. Sometimes the romance will end if you kick the NPC out of your party (Jaheira in particular can only take so much), and I don't know whether the Happy Patch has any effect on that.

The romances are not very deep (how deep can they be when they only have include about 20 dialogues?), but I think they are more or less successful in adding a new dimension to the story. Your character has a boyfriend/girlfriend. At least you can say that much. Even if the romance is fleeting or silly or unbelievable, the mere fact that you can SAY your character has a love interest has an immediate effect on your party.

I'm a little annoyed by some of the "features" that all of the romances seem to share. First there's the lover's tiff. The NPC is overly sensitive about something, so he/she breaks off the conversation in a huff. A little while later, he/she has a change of heart and apologizes. I realize that every relationship in real life has an occasional tiff, but it makes the NPC romances seem too much like they're following a script. I'm also annoyed by the way that NPCs cut conversations short by saying, "Well, we need to get going before the other party members start to worry about us." Jaheira is particularly evasive because she never wants to commit. Even well-written NPC romances use "well, we need to get going now" as a way to end conversations just when they're beginning to interest me. It's an over-used device.

The main "problem" with the romances is their premise. Why does an NPC fall in love with your character? Because it's scripted that way. Alignment and Charisma play a role in some NPC mods, but in the Bioware romances, the only things that matter are race and gender. And I guess the main reason why most players pursue a romance is simply because it's available. From my perspective, there isn't much chemstry--the romance is just something you take for granted. If you want some lovin', the game provides some generic satisfaction. If the NPC has an attractive portrait, I guess that's enough.

I've been sporadically playing a game with a male NPC and a party that includes Fade and Yasraena. The latter does not have a romance element. The romance with Fade is interesting. It reads more like a romance novel than other mods (female empowerment and trust-building and all that), and I'm curious to see where it will lead.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:39 am

Whilst I know that some players do not like the Aerie/Jaheira conflict, I do find that it makes the romance aspect more interesting. The main objection that I had was that Aerie jumped into bed with my character without so much as a "by your leave". As I was playing a Paladin at the time, I would not have jumped into bed with her without marrying her first. Basically, I think that the romances need far more scripting including a variety of ways in which the couple can progress their relationship, stall it temporarily, even regress with the possibility of advancing it later. In other words, make it a bit more realistic. However, as relationships are by their nature highly complex, I am not at all sure if it is possible to make it as realistic as I would like. Another minor gripe. Why no experience points for what is surely one of the most important experiences in peoples lives?

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:47 am

wise grimwald wrote:Another minor gripe. Why no experience points for what is surely one of the most important experiences in peoples lives?

Probably because romance is not directly related to adventuring. You don't get experience points for buying drinks in bars or listening to Jan's longwinded stories, either (although putting up with Noober was a special case).

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:06 pm

My Useful Fact for this thread:

The romances available in the 'vanilla' game (Aerie, Jaheira, Viconia, and Anomen) will only happen with a PC that fits the correct race and gender criteria for that NPC. Viconia, for example, will not romance your PC if he is an elf, and all the above will only romance PC's of the opposite gender.

My Useless Opinion for this thread:

I've heard the BG romances referred to as various things, such as unrealistic, gimmicky, or even porn. I can't really imagine anybody that would actually accumulate real physical libido towards a character in a CRPG (at least, no more so than any other reading material). And I find it ironic to refer to the romances as unrealistic, in a game where you command your Bhaalspawn half-sister to cast a Fireball spell at a Dragon as you shapechange into a Slayer.

I view the romances as an additional vehicle for story and character development. Nothing more, nothing less.

Certainly, the romances' execution or writing or whatever wasn't the best. At least for me with Jaheira, never once did I care where things would lead, except for seeing to it's conclusion, so as not to miss anything. The PC's ability scores (especially CHA, WIS, and INT) could have possibly been better used in dialogues (ala Torment), or any number of ideas, to make the romances seem more personable and less scripted. But I figure that at some point, Bioware had to draw a line in the developmental sand and get the game done for their deadline.

The one nice design aspect of the romances: if it's not your cup of tea, then cool, just tell whoever to pipe down, and they'll stop harassing you.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:01 pm

CFM wrote:
My Useless Opinion for this thread:

I've heard the BG romances referred to as various things, such as unrealistic, gimmicky, or even porn. I can't really imagine anybody that would actually accumulate real physical libido towards a character in a CRPG (at least, no more so than any other reading material). And I find it ironic to refer to the romances as unrealistic, in a game where you command your Bhaalspawn half-sister to cast a Fireball spell at a Dragon as you shapechange into a Slayer.

I view the romances as an additional vehicle for story and character development. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hopefully this is not going too far off topic, but I have to say that I agree entirely with the above. In a fantasy setting "reality" becomes a rather elastic concept at best.

I also view the romances, either in the vanilla game or modded, as another segment of the evolving story, and I think they can have a real potential to further flesh out a character's personality (both the PC's and that of the "love interest") and bring additional depth to the game.
I do feel, though, that the player-made romance mods are generally much better executed and developed than those in the original game.

However, I seriously think that anybody who views this sort of stuff as a substitute for real life relationships, or feels that they can somehow learn something from it, or actually falls for a collection of pixels... needs serious professional help, now.

davfrahen · Post by **davfrahen** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:26 am

"Another minor gripe. Why no experience points for what is surely one of the most important experiences in peoples lives?"

Completion of Jaheira`s romance gets you a bucketload of XP.

Grombag · Post by **Grombag** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:49 pm

iirc you do not get XP for completing the romance but for the meeting with an old friend. The thing is you can also have a meeting with him if you don't romance with her

Spoiler

Of course I'm talking about the meeting with Terminsel aka Elminster. He gives you the harper pin the thing is, you should also get the pin whitout romancing Jaheira and the XP reward attached with it. The pin is the closer of the harper quest.

As for why you don't get XP for completing a romance I'm not completly sure. Personaly I think it is because XP stands for fighting experience, but I'm not completly sure about that

davfrahen · Post by **davfrahen** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:08 am

What does ircc mean, please?

Henry Gondorff · Post by **Henry Gondorff** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:53 am

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

Grombag · Post by **Grombag** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:04 am

If I Recall Corectly

define: iirc - Google zoeken

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:08 am

RPG Guy (sorta) wrote:Personally, I don't understand the romance aspect of the game. Even just using the word 'romance' with respect to a PC game seems just plain wrong...in an Internet porn kind of way (I keed, I keed).

People might defend the notion as being an integral part of the 'roleplaying' experience but if anything, in my humble opinion, it crashes the buzz within the BG context. I mean, are you going to get it on with Minsc and Boo (or Jan and Edwin) just a napsack away? In a dungeon? On the dirt? After some ogre-killin? blech, blech and blech.

What if the Slayer breaks out uncontrollably during the event? Run Boo Run!!! How do you get 'romantic' with no soul? With the taint?

And here's the obligatory wand of monster summoning reference (I keed, I keed).

Anyways, if it gives you some extra XP then cool I guess but you won't catch this cat within 10 dialogue lines of a romance quest.

/rant

Whilst I can understand your reasoning, one of the peculiar things about the human race is the fact that danger seems to increase the libido rather than the opposite. It's the old "Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" mentality I suppose. However that aspect of our nature does appear to have more to do with lust than romance. In my opinion, for all its faults, the romances do add something to the game and if they aren't perfect they can be worked on by the many modders that we have nowadays.

davfrahen · Post by **davfrahen** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:05 am

It`s been a long time since I went through without the Jaheira romance (I love it`s compexity) but ircc, Terminsell asks her if she`s made the right choice, and if she says yes and your rep is 16 or above, she gets the Harper pin and you get the xp. Are you saying that he just appears and gives you xp if Jaheira is not in your party?
I`m curious, cos I can`t remember this happening, although it`s been a long while since I managed withnout Jaheira.

Grombag · Post by **Grombag** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:47 am

No I'm saying you don't need to have a romance with her. You can also do the harper quest if you are not romancing her. The quest does however contain some triggers needed for the advancement of the romance. Check the Baldurs gate 2 -> quest -> Jaheira section for more information.