Maximillius Straus Haven?

[poppolulu]

SPOILER!!!


How do you get the haven apartment above maximillius straus's home? I know you have to be Tremere however how do you get the appartment?

[Belladonna]

Spoiler!

Spoiler

You will get it after you complete his quest in Hollywood dealing with the gargoyle.

End spoiler!

[poppolulu]

thankies muchies

thanks ive been going wild trying to work it out... problem is that I cant get to that level because of my society of leopold bug that makes my computer crash when i get onto the boat at the end of the level?! any one got any suggestions to help with that?

[poppolulu]

Yayayayay

Ive fixed the society of leopold crash and im so happy! I will now be able to complete the game, thanks to Intergalactic

[Lukeatus]

Get Tremere Chantry Walkthrough - SPOILERS!

This is how to get a haven in the Tremere Chantry in LA, whose Regent is Maximillian Strauss:
-Note that you must play a Tremere character.
-To complete "The Regent's Riddle" quest simply visit the Chantry downtown when this hub opens up. Be nice to the regent, and express your interest of becoming part of the "Tremere Pyramid". Act always like your interests are those of the Tremere Clan, and keeping its secrets.
-Offer to find out about the Plaguebearers to the Regent, and he tells you that he'll give you an appropriate reward for this.
-To complete the Plaguebearer Missions, you must find out about the disease in the Skyline apartments, visiting Paul's apartment, and speaking to Hannah, a callgirl. You than go on and kill Jesebel Locke on the Empire Arms Hotel. Later, after talking to the homeless, you find out where to find a second plaguebearer, Brother Kramer, in the sewers. Kill him as well. To complete the quest you must finally kill the "Bishop" of the brotherhood of the ninth circle.
-After completing the whole quest, go back to the Chantry and talk to the regent. Accept the occult item instead of the cash.
-When you access Hollywood, after talking to Isaac Abrams, ask him what else you could do for him and he tells you about a problem with a Gargoyle. Visit the Chanty and the Regent admits that the Gargoyle is his creation. Offer to destroy him for the Regent and he gives you a talisman to protect against the gargoyle's attacks. KILL the Gargoyle in the Asian Theatre in hollywood (The sledgehammer, bought in the Red Spot, is the best weapon to do this), and than tell the Regent about your feat. DO NOT tell Isaac Abrams ever that the Gargoyle was Strauss' creation.
-Upon completing this quest, the Regent offers you to become part of the pyramid and become his apprentice. With this, he also gives you a haven in the Chantry. Finally!

[Jhereg]

*** Spoiler ***

KILL the Gargoyle in the Asian Theatre in hollywood (The sledgehammer, bought in the Red Spot, is the best weapon to do this)

You need not kill it. If you convince it to be loyal to Isaac, it still counts as "handling the Gargoyle", and you still get the spiffy digs.

[Lukeatus]

I guess...

I guess you're right. It's a game bug than, because I can't see how the Regent rewards you into becoming part of the Tremere Pyramid if you just convinced his creation to ally with his enemy. Wow. When I play Tremere I really have the clan's interests at heart.

[Jhereg]

I guess you're right. It's a game bug than, because I can't see how the Regent rewards you into becoming part of the Tremere Pyramid if you just convinced his creation to ally with his enemy. Wow. When I play Tremere I really have the clan's interests at heart.

That's your choice. I choose not to kill it because it's only crime is escaping what it regarded as slavery. After that, it kills vampires, all right, but only ones that come to kill it - self-defense. If it served Strauss loyally for all those years, I've got to figure the reason it left in the first place is because Strauss wasn't treating it well. If so, then it's Strauss' fault, not the Gargoyle's.

Keep in mind that, as a Tremere, you weren't sired in the standard way, so you didn't have Tremere loyalty impressed on you in the normal way. Hence, you don't have the level of instinctive loyalty that a properly sired Tremere would have. Strauss' instruction was not to kill the Gargoyle, but to protect the secrets of the Clan. Which I do. He says nothing about destroying the hapless creature, so I don't.

I keep the Clan's secrets, and at the same time serve my own interests, as well as giving the poor creature a place in the world that it has so long shunned, and giving Isaac an ally that he will doubtlessly appreciate, being probably the only one outside the Tremere to have a Gargoyle for an ally.

That, and now Isaac won't be sending anybody to destroy it anymore, so at last the poor creature can find some peace which, after all, is the only thing it desired in the first place.

If Isaac is able to re-open the theater (after instructing the Gargoyle to stay out of sight during performances - or at least stay still and look like a sculpture), the creature might actually enjoy some entertainment, as well as free room and board.

Everybody wins. Especially me.

[Lukeatus]

To kill or not to kill the Gargoyle?

SPOILER!!

By my Avatar I guess you can tell one of my fav. clans.

My 2 favorites are Tremere and Ventrue. The Ventrue, wow, with Fortitude 5 and dominate 3, everything in the game becomes easy. I mean socially and also with dominate 3 when there's too much kine around you decide who dies right away and who you'll trance to feed upon. Fortitude, in my opinion, is the best discipline in the game for a fight. Along with some defense, (which you can get Dodge up to 5 with 2 manuals in-game) fights become a lot easier. By the end of the game I also buff Presence up to 5 and become near invincible.

Anyway, but playing a Tremere all you really need to fight is Traumaturgy. Auspex really helps a ranged player as well. But when it comes to protecting the clan's best interests, I'm sure a Tremere would not want a Gargoyle serving anyone else who doesn't belong to the clan. I only allow the Gargoyle to live if my character wants to join the Anarchs. I really don't feel sorry for it, Gargoyles are created to become servants in the first place. If the game's role playing was more complex, I wouldn't know how to tell Regent Strauss that I convinced a Tremere-hating Gargoyle to aid Isaac Abrams, who's critical of the clan and the Camarilla in the first place.
If you play Tremere the right way, you want to stay loyal to the Cam and depose Lacroix in favor of the Regent. Even though he didn't wish to become Prince, forced into the position by the Camarilla, you wouldn't want the Baron of Hollywood to have the Gargoyle as his ally.
I guess I'm biased because Strauss was one of my favorite NPCs since I first played the game because he treats you with respect. Calls you Neonate instead of fledging or "kid" and properly rewards you for any quest you complete for him regardless of your clan and allegiance.
PS: The Gargoyle mentions that he hates kindred, but that he hates the Tremere most of all. Playing a Tremere, you wouldn't want him to ally with Abrams to fight against you and your clan.

[Bat22]

Nice philosophies.

For my part, the insular Tremere clan is exemplified in an insular Kindred. Don't be so free to share your contrary thoughts or knowledge with anyone and, with a group so tight-knit as the Tremere, especially with your own bloodline. Even though Strauss conducted himself exceptionally well in the game, his rogue Gargoyle's presence did question what sort of darker aspects one might discover about him in time. But, to keep allegiances available between Anarch, Camarilla, and Tremere, I destroyed the Gargoyle. Delivering Isaac a Gargoyle that could reveal its creator isn't better than spilling the beans yourself. Being a part of the pyramid might have its advantages for a Tremere fledgling despised by most other Kindred, and one whose power can be fostered by the clan (we do get that powerful talisman). A more outward separation or rebellion could occur when one is then strong or experienced enough, and the sire's demise at least removes one link in the Tremere's controlling chain.

[mr_sir]

If you play Tremere the right way, you want to stay loyal to the Cam and depose Lacroix in favor of the Regent.

There is no such thing as playing a role playing game "the right way". Its up to the player how they choose to roleplay their character. Why couldn't a Tremere who was sired outside of the normal conditions, witnessed his/her sire getting executed, and left to fend for his/herself just decide to play everyone for fools whilst feeling compassion for the gargoyle who was also mistreated? He/She could make Strauss believe the gargoyle is dead, but secretly turn it into Isaac's ally. That is not playing the game in the "wrong" way as you are roleplaying a character and that is how you chose your character to be. It is possible to be a 'rogue' Tremere, who is just playing Strauss for the benefits but deep down has no loyalty to him. If it wasn't then all Tremere would be nothing but mindless drones doing what they are told.

[Jhereg]

There is no such thing as playing a role playing game "the right way". Its up to the player how they choose to roleplay their character. Why couldn't a Tremere who was sired outside of the normal conditions, witnessed his/her sire getting executed, and left to fend for his/herself just decide to play everyone for fools whilst feeling compassion for the gargoyle who was also mistreated? He/She could make Strauss believe the gargoyle is dead, but secretly turn it into Isaac's ally. That is not playing the game in the "wrong" way as you are roleplaying a character and that is how you chose your character to be. It is possible to be a 'rogue' Tremere, who is just playing Strauss for the benefits but deep down has no loyalty to him. If it wasn't then all Tremere would be nothing but mindless drones doing what they are told.

Thank you, Mr. Sir, and that was precisely the point I was trying to make. My Tremere character is not a 'typical' Tremere - probably the farthest thing from it, and I play it from that angle. Strauss says himself that the circumnstances of my siring were, at best, unusual, and that gives me a degree of freedom that a properly sired Tremere would likely not have. I have no obsessive loyalty to Strauss or the Tremere in general, so I can play the "loyalty to the Clan" angle at it's very breaking-point. Loyal enough to get inside the pyramid, but not so loyal as to be obsessively interested in the Clan's overall best interests.

My PC is probably the only Tremere in LA who is free to think entirely for herself, and thus "Work to rule", as it were. Just enough to satisfy the conditions required, but not one whit more.

Oh, and I always go with the pariah ending. If I was going with the Cammy, I might play it different.

But ultimately, you have given the truth of it. There is no 'right' way. It depends on how you interpret the role. The game allows me to play as I play, so I'm not violating the constraints of the game, or the rules of conduct. I merely choose to interpret them somewhat loosely based on the fact that I'm not a real Tremere. Technically, I'm Caitiff. A sireless Vampire, bearing no loyalties to anyone beyond myself, which, I believe, is one of the most important underlying themes of the game. I am free to do what I will, because of all the Vampires in LA, I alone have no Master. That is my one true strength - self-determination.

[Lukeatus]

Tremere Role-playing

Well,
I guess I'm just used to playing Tremere. I don't really care that my character's siring's was unusual, but getting into the pyramid is an honor. Being a Tremere gives a great sense of belonging to something, having access to the clan's unique secrets, as you're disliked outside the clan anyway.
I guess in this game you can be anything, but I haven't seen something anywhere near a "rogue Tremere". If you don't demonstrate loyalty to the clan, you never get far in uncovering the clan's secrets and other Traumaturgic paths. And it's alright because in the game, you don't get to uncover much about the clan's secrets anyway.

[mr_sir]

I guess in this game you can be anything, but I haven't seen something anywhere near a "rogue Tremere". If you don't demonstrate loyalty to the clan, you never get far in uncovering the clan's secrets and other Traumaturgic paths. And it's alright because in the game, you don't get to uncover much about the clan's secrets anyway.

My point was that Tremere are still able to think for themselves, they just tend to choose loyalty to their clan. There is no reason why, under the right circumstances, a powerful Tremere who has learnt many of the clan's secrets, could not just decide to break free. Granted they would probably chase him down and execute him, but the choice is still there to be made, its just they do not choose to do so because of the consequences. Therefore in theory it is possible to have a rogue tremere, it just doesn't generally happen as the benefits of staying loyal are so great compared to the consequences of not being loyal.

[Jhereg]

Well,
I guess I'm just used to playing Tremere. I don't really care that my character's siring's was unusual, but getting into the pyramid is an honor. Being a Tremere gives a great sense of belonging to something, having access to the clan's unique secrets, as you're disliked outside the clan anyway.
I guess in this game you can be anything, but I haven't seen something anywhere near a "rogue Tremere". If you don't demonstrate loyalty to the clan, you never get far in uncovering the clan's secrets and other Traumaturgic paths. And it's alright because in the game, you don't get to uncover much about the clan's secrets anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I'm no newb. I've played precisely once as every other Clan. As Tremere, well over 150 games. By now, probably over 200. In the beginning, I was a little confused about what the role should be played like, and I evolved to this style over a considerable period of time as I learned to understand the nuances and subtleties in more detail. I play my personal style precisely because I have come to understand my character in exquisite detail.

[Anaximander]

There is no reason why, under the right circumstances, a powerful Tremere who has learnt many of the clan's secrets, could not just decide to break free.

There is, actually. Every newly sired Tremere is required to drink a mixture of the blood of the seven clan Elders, including Tremere himself. This creates an irrevocable mystic bond between all Tremere, and grants the elders of the clan powerful control over the younger members. In this regard, the Tremere are like the mafia: once you're in, there's no getting out.

Jhereg raises an interesting point. The PC in this game is not sired in the traditional manner of the Tremere. Not even close. Our character never participates in the ritualistic drinking of Elders' blood. The PC has much more freedom than the average Tremere does.

Still, I can't imagine the clan would let a rogue fledging get very far. They wouldn't risk allowing their secrets to be revealed.

[mr_sir]

There is, actually. Every newly sired Tremere is required to drink a mixture of the blood of the seven clan Elders, including Tremere himself. This creates an irrevocable mystic bond between all Tremere, and grants the elders of the clan powerful control over the younger members. In this regard, the Tremere are like the mafia: once you're in, there's no getting out.

Ok, I stand corrected as I know from other posts by yourself that you know a lot more about the VtM world than I do I still find it hard to believe that the Tremere have no say in what they do or how they act though, they must have some personal choice surely or they may as well just be robots.

[Anaximander]

Ok, I stand corrected as I know from other posts by yourself that you know a lot more about the VtM world than I do I still find it hard to believe that the Tremere have no say in what they do or how they act though, they must have some personal choice surely or they may as well just be robots.

Certainly they do. In fact, the Tremere squabble amongst themselves almost incessantly. Ultimately, though, an elder of the clan can simply say "You WILL do this!" and the younger member will be compelled to obey. Unless they have an incredibly strong will, in which case they might be able to resist the command. In PnP, the Tremere can use dominate in dialogue just like Ventrue can. The bond they all share augments the effect, making it harder for fledgings to resist the will of their elders.

Despite their internal conflicts, however, the Tremere present a united front to all the other clans. Mess with one Tremere, and you'll find yourself up against their entire chantry. Possibly even the entire clan.

[Lukeatus]

My point exactly-

The Tremere clan are a VERY close fraternity.

Once you're in, the clan becomes EVERYTHING to you. No way you'd ever allow say, a gargoyle ally with an Anarch Baron. You have a choice in the game however - be a lone Tremere, which just means that you're screwed. Because no one outside the clan will like you very much anyway. But it's definately worth it to join the pyramid as the Tremere clan's powers and secrets are very powerful, unfortunately in the game you're unable to experience it. But after joining the pyramid, you'd have to drink that mixture of blood, and upon uncovering the clan's secrets and other traumaturgical paths, loyalty to the clan is demanded and anyone who betrays the clan (if they're able) is destroyed. Loyalty to the clan and upholding its secrets - or else.

[Jhereg]

The Tremere clan are a VERY close fraternity.

Once you're in, the clan becomes EVERYTHING to you. No way you'd ever allow say, a gargoyle ally with an Anarch Baron. You have a choice in the game however - be a lone Tremere, which just means that you're screwed. Because no one outside the clan will like you very much anyway. But it's definately worth it to join the pyramid as the Tremere clan's powers and secrets are very powerful, unfortunately in the game you're unable to experience it. But after joining the pyramid, you'd have to drink that mixture of blood, and upon uncovering the clan's secrets and other traumaturgical paths, loyalty to the clan is demanded and anyone who betrays the clan (if they're able) is destroyed. Loyalty to the clan and upholding its secrets - or else.

That might actually be true. But you resolve the Gargoyle quest before you are indoctrinated into the pyramid, don't you? That constraint does not apply at that time. When you are dealing with the Gargoyle, you are a free agent.