So is this why i dont see Nalia in any party threads..

[Chippox of Doom]

She is currently lvl 19 mage / lvl 4 thief in my 4 man party.
what is up with that ?

Ive always knew she was one of the worst thiefs in bg 2, but really that bad huh? is that normal? I had to buy pick pocket items etc to be able to pick the simpliest chests heh.

PS. No, i dont want to use Sk to edit anything

[galraen]

Even with things like the ring of lock pick she's still barely adequate. I think this was done deliberately to try and force you not to keep her at the expence of Imoen, rather poor practise by Black Isle/Bioware IMO. This is one area where I think use of SK is legitimate.

[Onkel Bob]

I've made it all the way through with Nalia as the only thief without too much trouble. She's a good mage that has the added bonus that she can fire the Tuigan Bow in between spells. Just like Imoen but Nalia has a pretty cool ring. You'll need some potions some times but it's no real problem.

[davfrahen]

I think Nalia is great. She gets to the higher spells before Imoen and she`s the only one in my party of three that can use Celestial Fury. Pity she`s always moaning and she certainly gets a new portrait every time she`s in my party.

[fable]

As the preceding posts show, it's all about your playing strategy. Some people use clerics to locate traps. Some prefer bashing chests. Some don't pickpocket. Personally, I prefer a mage/thief who can do all three, and contribute a lot of backup spells as well, which is why I prefer Jan--but he's not "better" than Nalia, since it really depends on the kind of game you want to play.

[QuenGalad]

@Fable, I can't remember a single time i actually did force a chest or a door open. Even the lousiest doors in the world were immune to Minsc's STR of 18/93, or later, the combined argument of my Paladine's 22 (paladine - female paladin ) and Carsomyr (ok, the weapon probably doesn't matter but it's still weird ) Are you saing there is a way to do so? How? Three runs already and never a single chest bashed...

As to pickpocketing, i rarely do that, because few people have interesting and pickpocketing-vulnerable things. Backstabbing - i must be doing something wrong here, because it rarely works, too. So, when i play, my thieves are anti-traps-and-locks team. If Nalia had all her points put in those, without hiding and stealing, she would suit my parties quite well. Ah, style of the game - the ultimate answer

[fable]

As to pickpocketing, i rarely do that, because few people have interesting and pickpocketing-vulnerable things. Backstabbing - i must be doing something wrong here, because it rarely works, too. So, when i play, my thieves are anti-traps-and-locks team. If Nalia had all her points put in those, without hiding and stealing, she would suit my parties quite well. Ah, style of the game - the ultimate answer

I rarely use a thief for backstabbing, because I prefer Jan, and his combination of spells and that fun crossbow (try it sometime after lowering an enemy's magical resistance) are very effective. But as I recall, to backstab an enemy, it must be engaged in melee combat with another party member or ally. Best done while wearing some Boots of Speed, I suppose. Then your thief could presumably fly about the field of battle, backstabbing merrily away. Assuming the number of opponents is in your favor, and your thief can stand the attention they receive after a successful backstab.

[Grombag]

Iirc, in order to backstab you need to attack the target from the side/rear. The target didn't need to be in combat (I myself rarely use it).

As for using Nalia in your party, I think it isn't given as an advise often is because she needs to fit your playingstyle (this counts less for Imoen). You are pretty low on thiefs from a certain point. Imoen fits the description as your party thief better. The XP difference invested in thief skills for Imoen isn't that great in the long run (35000 points).

On a note to Chippox of Doom.
If nalia works for you in your party stick with her. That nobody agrees with you on her use doesn't mean that you are wrong. Don't worry and have fun

[fable]

Iirc, in order to backstab you need to attack the target from the side/rear. The target didn't need to be in combat (I myself rarely use it).

So they don't even need to be previously engaged at melee to become a backstabbing target? Okay: I've explained why I don't use it. Why don't you?

[QuenGalad]

From what I observe now while my Aerie gets backstabbed to death almost every day (45 hp, people!) you have to be hidden to do that. She's not fighting anyone, she's just standing there and casting spells, and bang! she's dead, and in the same second a thief appears next to her, who wasn't htere before. I belive they're drinking a potion of invisibility, then hiding in the shadows, and then murdering my sweet little mage-cleric
But somehow, I can't do that with my thieves. Bummer.

[Grombag]

Okay: I've explained why I don't use it. Why don't you?

I use alot of long range fighting also with my thief. If the baddies get into close range I can't hide my thief anymore since the baddies see him. Options are:
1) run away, hide, come back and backstab
2) potions of invisibilty

1) to complicated (you need to keep a close watch on your thief and on the fight). Besides if you can afford to extract a character out of combat for this, you can win the battle whitout extracting the character out of it
2) I ussually keep my potions of Inv somewhere on the bottom of my backpack.

Later on in the game my party thief usually is Imoen, which isn't the prefered person to go into close combat.


On the other hand I ussually did just fine. So perhaps the answer to your question is just I didn't need it so far.

*Grombag looks back at his post and wonders how he could make such an long answer from such an easy question.

[mr_sir]

I'm actually a fan of Nalia, and Imoen too, and like to have both in my party. This is simply because I love spellcasters and when I do take Nalia it is usually purely to be used as a mage. I've tried Jan but for some reason he just doesn't suit my favoured playing style and I end up losing patience with him

As for backstabbing, every now and then a thief in my party manages it but its usually accidental so I never rely on it. I prefer mage/thief npcs cos they can just stand back and attack with spells or ranged weapons from a distance, and unlike mages they have access to shortbows and all the different types of arrows you can get

In summary, to me the best thing about Nalia is that she is quite a powerful mage who can also use a bow and has her special ring I never use her as a thief, instead I usually use Imoen for that. Whether she is better than Jan or other npcs depends on personal choice and playing style. With my playing style she works very well in my parties.

[Lobster]

Another option for multiple backstabs is rings of invisibility (there are plenty of them in the game).
The AI script for backstabbing thieves doesn't seem to work very well, and if you are using that, I'm not surprised that you're not getting a good return from your thief in combat.

While you can pretty much assassinate every enemy in the game with boots of speed, it's a very tedious way to play - but you could try this:
hide your thief (stealth, or invisibility + non-detection) when you encounter groups with blue circles. Position him/her behind their mage. Have another character initiate dialogue, and if things turn ugly and they go hostile, your thief should be able to chunk the mage the instant he turns red.

I consider the above tactic to be roleplaying - not cheese or meta-gaming, since stealth, scouting, and assassination are the tools of the trade for rogues.

Similarly, a hidden thief with boots of speed should occupy your most forward position. If she discovers a group of enemies, she can keep the rest of the party out of their line of sight, sneak in, make an assassination attempt on their most dangerous-looking member (spellcaster), then run back behind behind friendly lines and draw her bow. The enemies will follow your thief into an ambush by the rest of your party.

[Chippox of Doom]

My main reason for using Nalia is becouse ive never played her past chapter 2, and i wanted to run her and play her story etc, Its not like i have a mayor problem with her low thieving abilities, Thx for all replys tho

Altho, after this run i will prolly never run her again, since she must be the most boring gal to travel with

[Ian Kognitow]

As for backstabbing, every now and then a thief in my party manages it but its usually accidental so I never rely on it. I prefer mage/thief npcs cos they can just stand back and attack with spells or ranged weapons from a distance, and unlike mages they have access to shortbows and all the different types of arrows you can get .

Actually, mage/thiefs are, in my view, the best for backstabbing since they can use Mislead, which effectively lets them stay invisible for multiple backstabs. Some consider it cheese but I generally find that it is a reasonable implementation of the spell. Plus, you don't *have* to use the cheesier part of this strategy: of walking the mislead clone off the screen and out of view. In any case, while I didn't do it too much in my first run through, I've been a big fan of backstabbing in recent games--particularly in scouting ahead and assassinating weak mages before they get protections up.

[VonDondu]

I consider Nalia to be a Mage who gained a few thief skills when she snuck out of her family's castle. From a roleplaying perspective, she's not the kind of person who would join a thief guild; she's more like a well-educated noble who wants to serve on the city council. Since there was no other way for the game designers to create a character like that, they made her a low level Thief dualled to a Mage. (She can't be a multi-class Mage/Thief because she's a human). Unfortunately, that puts a limit on her thieving skills. On the positive side, she has more hit points than a single-class Mage and she can use Thief weapons and items, so she has some advantages over a single-class Mage.

I think it's nice to have a Mage in my party who can advance rapidly, cast high level spells, and wield a bow. I rarely use any of Nalia's thieving abilities, but she is always a valuable party member when I play with her. Sometimes I use Shadowkeeper to make her a single-class Conjurer, which goes to show how I like to use her in my party.

By the way, if I want to play a character who can backstab, I play a Fighter/Thief.

[Lark]

From what I observe now while my Aerie gets backstabbed to death almost every day (45 hp, people!) you have to be hidden to do that. She's not fighting anyone, she's just standing there and casting spells, and bang! she's dead, and in the same second a thief appears next to her, who wasn't htere before. I belive they're drinking a potion of invisibility, then hiding in the shadows, and then murdering my sweet little mage-cleric
But somehow, I can't do that with my thieves. Bummer.

In order to backstab you have to observe the following:
1)Be invisible. Any kind of invisibility works, be it obtained by stealth or magic. There is no need to hide after you have for example drunk an invisibility potion. You could, if you liked to, sneak behind the victim, backstab, then drink an invisibility potion and backstab a second time.
2)Be behind the victim. Your enemies don't need to observe this, they can backstab you standing right in front of you. Your party members however have to be behind their victims' backs.
3)Hit the victim with a melee weapon usable by a single classed thief.
That doesn't change with UAI. So, no backstabbing with Carsomyr, the Staff of the Magi, and even not with the Corthala Family Blade! (but there are fixes that let Valygar use his own sword for backstabbing, [url="http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2fixpack/docs_core.php"]G3Fixpack[/url], [url="http://www.baldurdash.org/ToB/Fixes/TOBfixes.html"]BaldurdashFixpack[/url])

Protect Aerie with Stoneskin all the time, that should take care of any surprises by annoying thieves.

Best regards,
Lark

[boo's daddy]

Lark's got it. It took me ages to work this out.

IIRC, you CAN use a staff for backstabbing. Anything normally usable by thieves can be used to backstab.

Nalia's cool; she gets the high level spells before any other NPC. And I like her ending. It seems fitting somehow.

[Celacena]

Nalia's benefits

what nalia does well is find traps.

she takes a hell of a lot of boosting to pick pockets or locks, but finding traps, she is good at.

she's not a bad caster and doesn't get killed quickly.

I've got her with the Wizardry ring - shame she can't use Acuity too though.

[wise grimwald]

Lark's got it. It took me ages to work this out.

IIRC, you CAN use a staff for backstabbing. Anything normally usable by thieves can be used to backstab.

Nalia's cool; she gets the high level spells before any other NPC. And I like her ending. It seems fitting somehow.

You certainly can. You can even backstab with your fists. I once killed Savarok that way by accident in BG1. I was trying to knock him out!