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What exactly is 'America'?

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Tricky
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What exactly is 'America'?

Post by Tricky »

So there is a South America and a North America. The United States consists of 'Americans'. Canada is part of North America, but it is not American. Except for some people who know when to leave their country, there are no Americans there either. The United States is speshul somehow?

What is exactly considered 'American'? Can I find it in Argentina? Or Panama? How did the US procure that word? If you are from France, you're a European. If you're from Nepal, you're Asian. Why do I never hear of American-Mexicans (I'm not talking about immigrants)?

My brain hurts. No, it actually does, I've been having a bit of a migraine since this morning. Can't think straight. :(
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
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Post by fable »

Tricky wrote:So there is a South America and a North America. The United States consists of 'Americans'. Canada is part of North America, but it is not American. Except for some people who know when to leave their country, there are no Americans there either. The United States is speshul somehow?

What is exactly considered 'American'? Can I find it in Argentina? Or Panama? How did the US procure that word? If you are from France, you're a European. If you're from Nepal, you're Asian. Why do I never hear of American-Mexicans (I'm not talking about immigrants)?

My brain hurts. No, it actually does, I've been having a bit of a migraine since this morning. Can't think straight. :(
Canadians definitely are Americans. Anybody born in the Americas is American. I prefer to use the somewhat silly term USian to refer to my fellow citizens in the Bush Empire.

Sorry to hear about your migraine. What triggers them, and what do you do for them? My wife tries lying down with a hot compress and a little euclyptus oil burning away.
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Post by Mace Panda Poo »

Tricky wrote: If you are from France, you're a European. If you're from Nepal, you're Asian. Why do I never hear of American-Mexicans (I'm not talking about immigrants)?
:(
When describing someone from France you say Frenchman, not European. Someone from England is British not European. People from China are Chinese. If someone from Nepal is labeled an Asian, it is because the person describing them doesn't know what specific nation they come, so they generalise it.
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Tricky
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Post by Tricky »

Well they're ocular migraines. That means usually I've done something to trigger them myself. They don't normally hurt at all though, that is a little weird. I think I haven't been drinking enough fluids lately, maybe a bit too much alcohol though. And a few oranges which is a consumable 'trigger' for these things, if I eat enough of them.

The last time I had it this badly was the day after I drank an entire bottle of Beaujolais, a couple of years ago. It's something in grapes and citrus fruits. Dehydration also isn't helping.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
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Post by mr_sir »

I am European but I am also English. One is the continent that I come from, the other is the country (and hence my nationality). So Canadians are also North Americans.

As Mace Panda Poo says, most people are described by the country in which they were born or raised rather than the continent. So Americans can be found anywhere where they choose to live, and people in Argentina are Argentinians but also South Americans.

I think people just call citizens of the US Americans because its easier than saying "United States of America citizen" or something along those lines. But as fable says, anyone who lives in the Americas is in theory an American just like anyone who lives in Europe can be called a European.
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Post by Avane »

mr_sir wrote:I am European but I am also English. One is the continent that I come from, the other is the country (and hence my nationality). So Canadians are also North Americans.
I see what you're saying, however, Britain did not join the EEC as it was then known until I believe 1969, or there abouts. Primarily because Pres. De Gaulle kept saying 'non' to our many applications. So do you think that before Britain joined the EU [previously known as the EEC]that citizens of Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales would have considered themselves Europeans?
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Post by mr_sir »

Whether we were part of the then EEC or not, we were still Europeans because, regardless of politics, Britain is in the continent of Europe. Thats the point I was trying to make. Canadians are still North American because that is the continent on which their country is found, regardless of whether or not they are part of the USA. The continents are largely based around the tectonic plates and not politics, the politics only exist since the countries are so close together.
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Post by Tricky »

fable wrote:Sorry to hear about your migraine. What triggers them, and what do you do for them? My wife tries lying down with a hot compress and a little euclyptus oil burning away.
I had some sleep and I feel much better, thanks for the suggestion. Now, back to work. :(
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
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Post by BlueSky »

America.....hmmmm
I've always had a problem with defining "America"
I grew up in South America....Chile to be exact, wonderful childhood memories. :)
Then my family moved back to North America....as a child it was hard to grab the concept of America....then state and city....as being a way to define where you were....as I got older the concept became easier for me to grasp...

Don't have an answer to what is america other than a concept to try to describe a geographical location. This doesn't include all the cultural differences in "America"....

Have noticed that US citizens tend to use that term to describe where they are from...but don't think of how this could be confusing to somebody of a different culture and outlook...I used to try and point this out to people...but gave up...
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Post by dragon wench »

fable wrote:Canadians definitely are Americans. Anybody born in the Americas is American. I prefer to use the somewhat silly term USian to refer to my fellow citizens in the Bush Empire.
I know what you mean, and certainly in the geographic sense, Canadians are in the "Americas" and thus in that narrow definition, "American."

I can guarantee you, however, that you will find *very* few Canadians who will refer to themselves as Americans in the same way that people from France, Germany etc. will call themselves Europeans. "North Americans," yes, but "Americans," very, very rarely, if even at all.
I think this is because, for many, the word "America" has become synonymous with the "United States," and that gets into some extremely sensitive issues surrounding cultural identity.
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Post by Tricky »

dragon wench wrote:the word "America" has become synonymous with the "United States,"
I agree. So why did that happen in the US, and not for example in Brazil? How exactly did this happen? With these things it's usually some writer or columnist who starts using the word in a different context. It is popularized, people accept it and *poof!* it is as if it's always been there. Happens all the time, especially in this day and age.

I'm not really looking for the origin of the word America, do understand that. There is a shift in context that happened somewhere in the early seventeenth century, I gather some time after the Declaration of Independence. What happened there, that's what I'd like to know.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
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Post by mr_sir »

dragon wench wrote:I can guarantee you, however, that you will find *very* few Canadians who will refer to themselves as Americans in the same way that people from France, Germany etc. will call themselves Europeans. "North Americans," yes, but "Americans," very, very rarely, if even at all.
I think this is because, for many, the word "America" has become synonymous with the "United States," and that gets into some extremely sensitive issues surrounding cultural identity.
There is a similar situation here in the UK. I understand what Avane means because even though we are European, many English people do not really call themselves European due to cultural identity. This is why there is a lot of opposition in the UK to accepting the Euro as currency. We might be European but above all else many English people see themselves as British. Its a similar situation between the Scots, Welsh and so on. They generally describe themselves by their individual nationalities rather than the blanket term of British because many people associate British with being English. This is one of the reasons why there has been such a big thing about devolution in the UK in the last decade or so.
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Post by mr_sir »

Tricky wrote:I agree. So why did that happen in the US, and not for example in Brazil? How exactly did this happen? With these things it's usually some writer or columnist who starts using the word in a different context. It is popularized, people accept it and *poof!* it is as if it's always been there. Happens all the time, especially in this day and age.
When America was formed as the country we know today, it was formed as the United States of America rather than America. Its very easy to shorten that to America which is why I think many people refer to its citizens as Americans rather than a country like Brazil's citizens being refered to as Americans.
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Post by kathycf »

mr_sir wrote:When America was formed as the country we know today, it was formed as the United States of America rather than America. Its very easy to shorten that to America which is why I think many people refer to its citizens as Americans rather than a country like Brazil's citizens being refered to as Americans.
I think that is a good explanation. I refer to my country as the US or United States, rather than America because naturally the Americas encompass more than one country.

It does get awkward, however to constantly say something like US citizen or United States of America resident, so I do tend to shorten it to simply "American". On further reflection, I may decide to adopt Fable's term of USian. :D
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Post by Tricky »

I'm not sure if USian is appropriate though. It seems more like MEMEMEian. ;)
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
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Post by dragon wench »

mr_sir wrote:There is a similar situation here in the UK. I understand what Avane means because even though we are European, many English people do not really call themselves European due to cultural identity. This is why there is a lot of opposition in the UK to accepting the Euro as currency. We might be European but above all else many English people see themselves as British. Its a similar situation between the Scots, Welsh and so on. They generally describe themselves by their individual nationalities rather than the blanket term of British because many people associate British with being English. This is one of the reasons why there has been such a big thing about devolution in the UK in the last decade or so.
Indeed, I can appreciate all aspects of what you describe very well. My mother was Dutch/German and therefore "Continental" while my father, very much an old-school 'labourite,' hails from South Shields, he is a Geordie first and foremost and holds a distinctly suspicious view of the rest of Britain, the more southern regions in particular.
When I was around five, we lived in a tiny hamlet in Yorkshire... my mother was always treated with prejudice because she was "Continental." (and the fact that she was part German didn't exactly help matters either)
So yes... on all counts I'm far too familiar with everything you've depicted.

But, somewhat more to topic, I suspect you are very right in your suggestion of how the term "America" came to be so closely associated with the United States.

OK...I'm probably venturing into thorny territory with what I am about to say. So first of all, I wish to make clear that I intend no offense to anyone here from the US. Also I can only speak from a Canadian perspective, I'm in no position to discuss those points of view from nations such as Brazil.

People from the US themselves often view "America" as meaning the entire continent and they have the perception that their nation is dominent. I am not saying that all people from the US feel this way, those who are well-educated and sensitive do not, as a general rule, assume the US to hold sovereignty over the entire content.

I encountered this attitude of dominence many, many times when working in the tourism industry... For example, people from the US would frequently rail with anger because they were not allowed to bring their guns over the border, as far as they were concerned we were all part of the same land mass and therefore Canada was effectively just another state. Or, they would question why our currency, despite sharing a name with their own, was not the same, and they bristled on those occasions where US dollars were not accepted. Occurrences like this have long been a part of the tensions between US and Canada. On the macro level, the US also tries to dictate our domestic and foreign policy by attempting to influence our drug laws, or by challenging our differing policy on Cuba.
I could go on.. but I'll stop there.

It is this sort of perceived hegemony that oft makes Canadians bristle at being referred to as "Americans."

BTW, just to be clear, I am actually quite relaxed about the whole US/Canadian thing, and I genuinely enjoy spending time in the US... Indeed, I could very happily live in certain areas of the US, it is far more dynamic and vital than Canada. I will also readily admit that Canadians own a share in the creation of their identity crisis.
I only wanted to throw out here what tends to be the inside perspective on national identity issues because I think it has bearing on this discussion. ;)
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Post by kathycf »

Tricky wrote:I'm not sure if USian is appropriate though. It seems more like MEMEMEian. ;)
Not to me, but I have never been a mememe type. While I think that may fit some people who live in this country...again after reading DragonWench's post it does seem to, it certainly isn't the case with all "United States of America residents". :)

*edit*

I think some of the language used in national songs such as "America the Beautiful" may lead to the impression that US residents think America synonymous with the United States of America. I agree that many people here do that, and I don't think it is always intentional arrogance.(although in some cases I agree it does come down to national arrogance.) If you grow up listening to these songs as a child and hear constant references to "America" than I suppose it becomes an ingrained habit to think of the country as America.

I am not saying that is the case with every single person who lives in the US. My statements are purely anecdotal and personal.
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Post by DarthMarth »

simply more fallacies in the English language
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Post by galraen »

I suppose we could offend everyone from south of the Mason-Dixon line by referring to the citizens of the USA as Yanks, or go even further and offend all of them by using the Cockney Rhyming slang term, i.e Septics as in Septic Tanks.:mischief:

As to Canadians, to quote R.A. Heinlein, "Canadians are Americans who are too smart to pay taxes to Washington".:laugh:
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Post by Mace Panda Poo »

fable wrote: I prefer to use the somewhat silly term USian to refer to my fellow citizens in the Bush Empire.
When you say "USian", do you pronounce it "you-es-ian" or "you-sian"; i hope you can understand the sounds i'm trying to type.
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