Calling all cheese masters and engine gurus: Speedrun help [spoilers; long]

clone rizzo · Post by **clone rizzo** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:15 pm

Hello,

I'm in the final stages of planning a speedrun for BGII. If you are unfamiliar with the term, speedrunning basically entails beating a game as quickly as possible (real time, not game time) and capturing it on video. Some time ago I completed a run of BGI + TotSC in just over 30 mins (here's a link if you're interested: Speed Demos Archive - Baldur's Gate). However, BGII is proving to be a tougher challenge because of the significant number of options available to the player.

By means of cheese tactics and exploitation I have managed to eliminate many of the game's core quests and checkpoints. Here is a list of objectives which I have so far found unavoidable (ie MUST be accomplished in order to progress with the game). It is my hope that through brainstorming we can cut out some of these steps.

Ch. 1 (Dungeon escape)
-Get the dungeon portal key
-Activate a portal
-Exit Irenicus' dungeon
-Talk to Gaelan Bayle

Ch. 2 (Raise money)
-Get 15,000+ gold
-Talk to Bodhi and side with her

Ch. 3 (Bodhi's Quests)
-Kill (or pickpocket) Mook to get the shipment
-Return to Bodhi
-Kill Gaelan Bayle and get the cellar key
-Kill (or rescue) Palern Flynn in the thieves guild
-Enter T.G. cellar
-Kill Aran Linvail
-Return to Bodhi

Ch. 4 (Brynnlaw and Spellhold)
-Kill (or pickpocket) Perth to get the wardstone
-Enter the Asylum
-Activate Portal to the Underdark

Ch. 5 (Underdark)
-Kill (or pickpocket) Goldander Blackenrock to get the Light Gem
-Enter the dragon lair
-Kill the Dragon Adalon to get her Note (Drow Runes of Sundering)
-Open gate and exit the Underdark

Ch. 6 (Defeat Bodhi)
-Enlist Drizzt & Co.
-Enter Bodhi's Lair and access the inner sanctum
-Defeat Bodhi and stake her to get the Rynn Lanthorn
-Talk to Elhan
-Enter Suldanessellar

Ch. 7 (Suldanessellar + Hell)
-Get the 3 artifacts of Rillifane
-Get the stone horn and harp
-Place the 3 artifacts on the temple alter to summon the Avatar
-Enter Palace
-Get nuts from the tree
-Place horn and harp on statues
-Enter tree of life
-Activate parasite #1, kill its 2 guardians, destroy parasite
-Activate parasite #2, kill its 2 guardians, destroy parasite
-Activate parasite #3, kill its 2 guardians, destroy parasite
-Defeat Irenicus, follow him to hell

-Get 1 Tear of Bhall
-Activate the Abyssal Door
-Kill Irenicus

If part of the game isn't listed here then you can assume that its not necessary to the core plot or that I've found some glitch or exploit to bypass it (ie all of spellhold

)

So, the point of this thread...
1) First of all, asking for input on possible ways to cut down the checklist.

Particularly annoying is the section in Suldansessellar and the Tree of Life. I've been unable to find any shortcuts here. Tracking all over to collect the 5 artifacts seems like a waste, as does visiting all the tree parasites and killing off 6 guardians, but I can't find a way around it.

Another awkward area is in Chapter 3. I would love to hit up all 3 of Bodhi's jobs in one trip, but unfortunately the game doesn't work that way. Mook is a given and you can kill Linvail at any time, but you have to walk all the way back to Bodhi after you get the package from Mook before you can accomplish her 2nd job (the NPC's simply don't spawn until you've returned to her with the package). If someone knows a way around this, that would be a big time saver.

2) Tactics advice for some of the fights. Cheese is welcome but remember it has to be FAST and quickly obtainable to a lvl 12 sorcerer. Most of the enemies are easily dealt with but here are some the fights I think could be improved:

Bodhi- She is tough and currently I rely on Drizzt to do most of the work. She is immune to instant death magic. Any suggestions?

Parasite guardians- I've come to enlisting Korgan to help with these guys, that's how annoying they are. A variety of damage spells and Melf's Meteors (+Korgan beating on them with an axe) is pretty efficient but there HAS to be a better way.

Irenicus #1 (in the tree)- Clouldkill and area damage from off-screen. Oldest cheese in the book but neither as elegant nor fast as I would like.

Irenicus #2 (hell)- I have a pretty good strat that involves placing some skull traps which get him down to about 25 hp. Then hit with a sequencer of 2 magic missiles before his contingencies or regeneration can save him. Any other ideas?

Whew... I have some other things to discuss but that's enough for now. Any time-saving tricks and exploits are welcome although I'm pretty well versed in Infinity Engine exploits (like potion-swap hard casting and gem duplication, etc.)

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:01 pm

Oh well, I've got a good cheese for you for the final fight, I think it works on other Irenicus fights too. Place a Special Snare on his spawn point. Make sure the Bounty Hunter is over level 21 so the trap Mazes. There is no save against this spell or trap. Anyway, when Irenicus spawns, he will be instantly Mazed, and this will remove his protections and disrupt his script, so all he'll do is stand there. While he is Mazed you could set up more traps and get ready to backstab, just in case.

clone rizzo · Post by **clone rizzo** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:58 pm

I just learned in another forum that you can bribe your way out of the underdark, so long as you get the disguise from adalon (I didnt realize that

).

Alternatively, you needn't kill her either. Simply making the dragon hostile will set the underdark gates open.

Both of these strategies are fast and much easier than killing the dragon.

As for the maze traps, getting a lvl 21 bounty hunter isn't feasible, but I am thinking about using yoshimo for normal traps.

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:45 pm

Bodhi shouldn't be that hard if you have a party. Take the (short) time to grab the mace of disruption in the lair, and perhaps run in to the tavern at the city gates and grab Daystar (free Sunray). Those should let you take out the rest of the vampires pretty quickly. Having your best two fighters with the mace and amulet of power beat up Bodhi while keeping the rest of the party back should allow for easy victory.

Irenicus: Pick up the scrolls of magic protection from the adventurer's mart. (you should take the time for at least 1 stop--you can get a rod of regeneration and level 9 scrolls in Ch.6 as well which can also help if having problems with Bodhi). Cast the magic protection scrolls on Irenicus himself and he won't be able to use any spells.

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:34 pm

Some additional thoughts:

--As far as character creation, it seems like a sorcerer would be the best option since it would grant you multiple hastes from the start (and obviously you won't be worrying about getting scrolls). Go ahead and take Minsc. Minsc won't slow you down since he doesn't have any quests.

--It may be worthwhile to run to the government district to pay for the magic license--you won't want to be slowed down further by cowled wizards during unavoidable 'being waylaid' encounters. It will also give you an opportunity to pick up Jan who is also low maintenance and will give you a thief. With Imoen coming in at the Asylum, that should give you a solid 4 person party with hardly any undue time spent.

--Probably the fastest way to raise the 15k gold is to consume a bunch of thievery potions, go to one of the 'fences' and use the cash exploit of selling and rebuying the same equipment.

clone rizzo · Post by **clone rizzo** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:23 am

minsc... wow i totally forgot about minsc. That's a good idea, he's even faster to get than korgan--I dont know why i never considered minsc or jaheira before.

THE fastest way to get 15,000 gold is the gem duplication trick. Right-click drink a potion in your inventory, take a gem and place it in the slot occupied by the potion you just drank, close inventory and return to game, wait a few seconds, go to inventory screen and repeat the potion swap process (gem will have gone from quantity 1 to having no quantity number), return to game and wait a few seconds... now check your inventory and find you now have about 56,000 gems (which gets you at least 700,000 gold

) anyways, its enough to pay off Bodhi! and it takes literally 10 seconds

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:12 pm

clone rizzo wrote:minsc... wow i totally forgot about minsc. That's a good idea, he's even faster to get than korgan--I dont know why i never considered minsc or jaheira before.

You would still have to walk over to get the key and come back to release Jaheira though, while with Minsc you just speed through the dialogue options. Maybe not a big deal though--just be sure to be mean to her if you pick her up so that you're not constantly interrupted by romance talks.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:32 pm

Reading UserUnfriendly's [url="http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Stuff/Cheese.htm"]cheese guide[/url] and Xyx's [url="http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm"]spells reference[/url] will likely provide you with new and innovative insights. That, and a whole new dimension of cheese possibilities. It'll make your Sorcerer's life a lot easier and effective.

clone rizzo · Post by **clone rizzo** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:46 pm

Sytze wrote:Reading UserUnfriendly's [url="http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Stuff/Cheese.htm"]cheese guide[/url] and Xyx's [url="http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm"]spells reference[/url] will likely provide you with new and innovative insights. That, and a whole new dimension of cheese possibilities. It'll make your Sorcerer's life a lot easier and effective.

Yes, I've read though those previously and learned a few helpful things

Aspara_Gus · Post by **Aspara_Gus** » Sun May 20, 2007 8:22 am

Just tried it

Hello all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

I just tried this and got through chapter 3 in 43 minutes with a half-orc barbarian, using the sell-back-to-merchant cheese.

I think you're going to get the best real-time time by soloing the game, since you're not going to find enough boots of speed or potions of speed to haste a whole party. I could be wrong if you've got mages casting lost of hastes, but I doubt it.

I love this challenge, and the game-time time challenge too. I got through in game-time of like 3 days 2 hours once.

Best of luck,

Gus

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:30 am

Aspara_Gus wrote: I think you're going to get the best real-time time by soloing the game, since you're not going to find enough boots of speed or potions of speed to haste a whole party. I could be wrong if you've got mages casting lost of hastes, but I doubt it.

This is why the sorcerer is probably the best PC choice since multiple hastes are easily had (and depending on the number of NPCs taken, it will probably be possible to have it use mass invisibility later in the game). Besides, there are no boots of speed that come from essential encounters (Renal Bloodscalp can be avoided, the astral prison isn't entered, and the asylum tokens wouldn't be collected). Given the low levels from fighting only essential fights, I find it doubtful if the game could be won solo due to the relative difficulty of some of the fights that are necessary--especially the Bodhi fight, the party fight in Suldanessalar, and maybe even the underdark demon for the light gem.

--I was thinking, actually, that even if the gem exploit may be faster than the merchant cheese, it still may be beneficial to go with the merchant cheese with the sewer merchant. He also has all the potions in the game which can be stolen en masse. I noticed in video of Rizzo's BGI speedrun that some of the potions were crucial to getting through. I imagine that the large quantities of invisibility, invulnerability, cloud giant strength, and other potions, able to be stolen all at the same time, may be worth it. Between that and two trips to adventurer's mart--one in ch.2 (get vhailor's helm, vecna robe, belt of strength, prot. from magic scrolls, armor for Minsc, and whatever >+1 weapons are available) and one in ch.6 (>+2 weapons, rod of resurrection, level 9 scrolls)--that should be enough to equip a 3-4 member party.

--one more random thought in regard to getting through the essential fights at low levels: use the slayer form. With its resistances, it will probably be your best bet to defeat Bodhi and that demon for the light gem without too much risk.

Grombag · Post by **Grombag** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:49 am

Aspara_Gus wrote:Hello all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

I just tried this and got through chapter 3 in 43 minutes with a half-orc barbarian, using the sell-back-to-merchant cheese.

I think you're going to get the best real-time time by soloing the game, since you're not going to find enough boots of speed or potions of speed to haste a whole party. I could be wrong if you've got mages casting lost of hastes, but I doubt it.

I love this challenge, and the game-time time challenge too. I got through in game-time of like 3 days 2 hours once.

Best of luck,

Gus

Actually so far I found 5 boots of speed. Also there is an amulet (and IIRC a set of armour) that gives you the same walking speed as the boots of speed. So this is possible, but some of them only come in TOB.

clone rizzo · Post by **clone rizzo** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:32 pm

Bumping this thread with a glitch video. One of the new exploits I came across by accident is potentially pretty powerful (in terms of speedrunning, at least). Basically it allows you to move in situations when the game intends you to have no control over your character (dream sequences, cut-scenes, etc). Generally what happens in a typical BG cut-scene is that the party will be teleported to a new area location set up specifically for the scene, where they will be put in a corner of the map somewhere. You are unable to control the game and simply watch the scripted event play like a movie. Then you are transfered back to your original area and location. Alternatively, some scenes take place in the normal game areas and you can see your group but can't control them.

The trick is done by getting someone to initiate dialogue with your party at the EXACT MOMENT that the cut-scene starts. This is difficult to replicate because if you are a fraction of a second too early the game will pause, and if you are a fraction of a second late, the sequence will already have started.

After many tries, I was able to duplicate the glitch while recording. This short clip shows how the long scene (2:40 long) in chapter one where Irenicus fights the cowled wizards can be skipped. What I did here was:

1)pause
2)kick everyone out of the party, but keep them close by.
3)click on the dungeon exit to trigger the cut-scene
4)unpause. The game then auto-saves for the dungeon exit. In the short time in between the auto-save and the cut-scene trigger, Imoen walks up to the PC and gives her "Are you sure..." line at exactly the right moment. You can tell when it works because game screen is black and there is a small glitch in the dialogue box after you talk to her.

glitch2.wmv - FileFront.com
YouTube - Baldur's Gate II - speedrun dialogue glitch

After that you are free to waltz around while the battle is taking place instead of wasting 3 minutes watching it. Though not always helpful, this should allow you to be free in almost any dream sequence or cut-scene in the game. I have not tested it in other games but it would be worth looking into in other infinity engine games like BG-I and IWD.

Aspara_Gus · Post by **Aspara_Gus** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:05 am

I just did it

I just completed a speedrun in 3 hours, 18 minutes with an unnerfed Shapeshifter (courtesy of the Ease of Use mod). I chose the Shapeshifter because he's naturally faster than normal, needs no weapons or armor, has chaotic commands, and, well, werewolves are just pretty cool.

I took Yoshi to the docks to steal and sell to get the cash, and he also snagged you-know-who's Ring of Regeneration in chapter 2. Did anyone notice that Yoshi's script is wrong? I just realized that he says "yokatta" instead of "wakatta" when you select him. That's like saying "Yes, I did it!" instead of "I understand". I'm pretty sure they mean the latter.

Anyway, the vampires in chapter 3 went down easily. Siding with the vamps may be easier than siding with the theives, but I have never done that. And I wanted to make sure to get the amulet of power.

Once he got to level 13 it went very fast, but getting to level 13 was a bit of a challenge at places. He only died once, though, at level 12 (at the slimey hands of Perth the Adept, believe it or not).

I got enough tokens in Bohdi's maze to get the boots of speed, which took a little extra time, but I think it was worth it because of how ridiculously fast he was after that.

The romp through Suldenesselar was also much faster than I've ever been with a group. Everything fell to the claws except the clay golems. Sarevok in hell couldn't even touch me in battle. And Jon went down pretty easily too. I used bears, shambling mounds, and summoned nymph. Dispel invisibility came in useful too.

I'm guessing that I could shave 30 minutes off the time. I did some stupid things, like rescuing the guy for the Harper's, and I didn't have enough potions of speed before I got the boots. I also wasted some time getting the ring of free action, which I'm not sure I needed.

I'm curious about others who have tried this. Are there any other speedrunners?