What's the point of the underdark?

Arania · Post by **Arania** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:21 pm

Hi,

I have just killed almost everything in the underdark (except some of those beholders and that - I gave up after dying a hundred time!!!). I'm not impressed about giving up but even my only protection from magic scroll doesn't stop them killing me. Having said that I sent Minsc around in it and killed some gauths and looted some treasure, before I am about to chicken out!!!

I am in the Beholders lair and am about to go, but I haven't really done anything except a few quests and was wondering if there was something major I was missing that I am supposed to do. Most other places I have been to there is a major quest to do, but not here. Is this right?

If this is right I will leg it off to that captain in Brynlaw and go sailing with him.

I thought I was chasing Irenicus and that but there's no sign of them and no way out of the underdark except the way I came in...

Can anyone help?

Thanks very much,

Arania.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:30 pm

The point of the Underdark is to persue Irenicus, and to do this you need to travel through the Underdark to get back to Amn. You need to make your way to the Drow City as you have to pass through there to get back to the surface in Amn. However you will need a disguise to get into the city. Explore the Underdark and speak to people and the way to do this will be explained.

Arania · Post by **Arania** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:50 pm

I've killed everyone in the drow city!!! I killed a slaver because I don't like them and everyone else turned hostile. Good experience.

Have I cocked it up and need to start again? I have a save game at the start of the underdark which I can use if I have too.

Thanks for your help,

Arania.

BlueSky · Post by **BlueSky** » Sat May 19, 2007 3:30 pm

Arania wrote:I've killed everyone in the drow city!!! I killed a slaver because I don't like them and everyone else turned hostile. Good experience.

Have I cocked it up and need to start again? I have a save game at the start of the underdark which I can use if I have too.

Thanks for your help,

Arania.

Suggest doing just that, start again at save point,

there's the main quest and if memory serves a few sidequests, or it may be the variations on the main, I remember correctly.
ps. talk to lots of people...

Arania · Post by **Arania** » Sat May 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Thx, will do that tomorrow.

Whilst we're here - how do you kill all of those beholders?!! Until this place I have hacked them up no problem - you can't even bring them out one at a time because all their mates come along. It's the second battle I've had to give up on - the first was the second demon in the planar sphere (I had the heart and that was a mission!!).

Nothing I try, protective, offensive or summoned monsters works. It doesn’t seem to me to be that hard battles really but they jut keep hacking me to pieces and killing me with powerful magic that any protection is to weak to stop!!

All the best,

Arania

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sat May 19, 2007 3:51 pm

As long as you can get out of the city (usually requires killing all of them) you should be able to continue the game. I hope you have already bought the useful items (like the overpowered throwing dagger) from the merchants before, but they are not neccessary.

About the beholder lair: You can return anytime in chapter6 and do it when your party is more experienced if you want to do so.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:25 pm

Killing the entire drow city sure is a viable option, as long as you get the eggs and kill the matron mother. Alternatively, you could just follow the quests laid out before you. This is route is generally followed.

As for killing beholders, there're a few strategies for that. One would be the shield of balduran (of course), but that would make it a little too easy. Second would be spells that act a bit like the shield mentioned above, such as the level five spell minor spell turning or a level seven spell called spell turning. A third possibility would simply be good preparation. Try setting traps, summoning monsters (preferably skeleton warriors, which are pretty magic resistant), buffing yourself with all kinds of good protection spells, and hack away merrily from a distance while your protected mages bounce of the beholders' spells and your summons absorb them. That should do it well enough, in my opinion. For safety’s sake, you might want to keep a back-up cleric or mage for those extra summon-, healing- and dispelling spells in case things get too dangerous.

If you have any more trouble, why don't you post your party composition and a general height of their level so we might be able to help you a bit better.

Good luck!

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:46 am

I find holy smite to be very good against beholders, altough I don't know why. It's just an observation I made.

A good, if a little cowardly, tactics is sending some summons (as mentioned above) down where you think some beholders migt be, while staying at a safe distance yourself. When the summons weaken the beholder group, you can get down there and finish the job. I remember killing them with ranged weapons was easier, perhaps because they cast those anti-healing spells which require touching the target (probably).

Oh, and the point of underdark is showing you, step by step, who Irenicus is, or at least what he wants to do

Gorlam · Post by **Gorlam** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:47 pm

actually the exit to the underdark is in the frog men's area, should be able to exit there.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:27 am

QuenGalad wrote:I find holy smite to be very good against beholders, altough I don't know why. It's just an observation I made.

A good, if a little cowardly, tactics is sending some summons (as mentioned above) down where you think some beholders migt be, while staying at a safe distance yourself. When the summons weaken the beholder group, you can get down there and finish the job. I remember killing them with ranged weapons was easier, perhaps because they cast those anti-healing spells which require touching the target (probably).

Oh, and the point of underdark is showing you, step by step, who Irenicus is, or at least what he wants to do

The beholder's Cause Critical Wounds ray is a ranged spell attack with no need to roll to hit - i.e. hits always.

Using summons is kinda dangerous. You have to send them one by one, because of the beholders Death Spell. They have to be powerful(skeleton warriors, mordenkainen swords, Aerial Servants, Fire Elementals). Preferably the first two listed. And lastly - if the beholders kill your last summon and you're nearby and visible, you're under attack.

The point of the Underdark is to give you the final parts of the grand quest items you're assembling, to give you interesting and tough fights, a new dragon and an inside view of the Drow life.

Btw, Arania, kill as many as you can, but not from the start. Play along with them. I assure you, if you complete each and every quest and sub-quest in their city, you will annihilate three powerful Drow houses, and if you just kill a slaver - you will never be admitted to these places. And there are good Drow, as well, remember that.

Now, as I understand Arania has a problem with Beholders and Elder Orbs. Here are some tips:

1. A Gauth uses mainly "Cause serious wounds" ray and a "Lightning Bolt" ray. They're easy to kill. Protection from Lightning and from Magic Damage helps here.
2. A Beholder uses "Domination/Dire Charm" ray , "Cause Serious W" ray, "Anti-magic" ray and "Flesh to stone" ray, the last one with no save(unlike the spell with the same name). The things are well until a Beholder shoots the Anti-Magic ray, followed straight away by a Flesh to Stone ray. No save. The Anti-Magic Ray goes through any kind of spell protection, removing all combat buffs and deflection like spells like spell turning, causing a 100% spell failure in the target for 3 rounds, making you a stone statue. Spell Shield(lvl 5 wizard spell) is the only spell that can save you from a single Anti-Magic Ray. But not from 2 or more.

My personal way to deal with big groups of Beholders is making two of my mages Improved Invisible, Protected from Magic Energy(6lvl spell), and sending them right in the middle of the beholder group, where each of the mages fires a Spell Sequencer loaded with 3 Skull Trap spells. Kaboom!

The knowledge of their tactic helps also. Now, a Beholder will shoot an Anti-Magic ray, and after that a Flesh to Stone ray. While the targeted character is unable to protect himself with spells for 3 rounds after the A-M ray , he can be still protected by using a green protection from petrification scroll. Or simply an ally mage can cast on him quickly the Prot from Petrification 1st lvl wizard spell(which is cast immediately, as I recall, and if not - well there's a minor spell sequencer in which the spell can be stored and released immediatelly if need be).

Spell Trigger with 3*Sunfire while your mages are protected from fire is equally effective, but Spell Trigger is 8 lvl spell while Spell Sequencer is 7th, also ST is a very rare scroll in SoA, while SS is more common and available to buy.

Note: There is an item found in the Sahuagin City called "cloak of mirroring", it helps on the beholders but yet you're vulnerable to the Anti Magic+Flesh to Stone rays.

For warriors it is best advised equipping them with items which protect from charm and domination spells, like Adjatha the Drinker or the Shield of Harmony, or simply buffing them with Chaotic Commands(lvl 5 priest spell).

3. Elder orbs. These are the toughest beholders which you can meet in a pure SoA game. There are very few of them also in the whole SoA. In those tunnels where are you, Arania, there are exactly two of them, and the second one is surrounded by many Beholders and Gauths, and has nothing of value. So, avoid him, he's in the SE part of the tunnels(lower right corner). on NE(upper right) are some valuable items. And the area is lightly guarded. Also, near the starting point of these tunnels, there is a little alcove with a
+4 sling.

Any way, about the Elder orb. They're Magic Resistant, thank god not 100%. They use spells, like Sunfire, Imprisonment, Stoneskin and several other. They also use the classic Anti-Magic ray+Flesh to Stone combo. Killing one of these is not very easy. Yet you have to kill the Orb who is in the room right next to the entrance. There's another Beholder with him. I suggest using Invisibility radius 10' or similar spell to make all of your party invisible, and buff all of them well before you enter. The Elder Orb begins immediately with True Sight. Surround him and kill him quickly with pure melee while he's casting TS. Because his next spell is Stoneskin followed by rays of various kinds and Imprisonment. After that, take care of the lonely Beholder in the same manner. He most probably will not succeed to activate Anti-Magic Ray + Flesh to stone if you work quickly. The berserker rage protects from Imprisonment and similar spells, as well as from Domination and Paralyze, so it is worth using on beholders if you have Minsc and/or Korgan. BTW, you can buff those two and send them alone against the Orb, enraged, of course.

You may try the same strategy I descrbed about the beholders on the Elder orb. He is not 100% MR.

Weapons with dispelling effect - Carsomyr, Staff of the Magi - is best to be used, in order to immediately get rid of the Orb's Stoneskin. Breach and similar s.pells need more time for casting

Crucis · Post by **Crucis** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:41 am

Of course, then there's the Shield of Balduran (otherwise known as the Shield of Cheddar) while turns your best tank into a 1 man (or woman)
anti-beholder killing machine. For the most part, anyone wielding the
shield of cheddar can just stand there and let the beholders attack him
and all of the reflected rays will do the work.

Grombag · Post by **Grombag** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:57 am

1 problem with the shield of balduran is, that it doesn't stop the imprisement spells, so the elder orbs should be taken out first.

Also glitterdust is pretty effective against beholders. I read somewhere they never save against it. :devil:

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:00 am

I can't help it- I love the shield of balduran! I can't imagine why the designers put it in except as a way of saying, "Well, maybe the beholder lair was a bigger pain than it should have been- sorry!". Ergo, my advice is to use the shield.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:23 am

Oh for the love of Bhaal! I've been killing beholders for a long time and only 2 months ago I found out the Shield of Balduran and the Cloak of Mirroring! Besides, if you play a solo Mage or Sorcerer, how will you wear the Shield?

The Shield is more than useless against Elder orbs, Death Tyrants and Hive Mothers. Another tactics are needed there. The Beholders are supposed to give a nice fight. Do not spoil it with the Shield unless you're playing a solo unfortunate warrior.

Aerydon · Post by **Aerydon** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:33 pm

I have a solo character a cleric lvl 11/mage lvl 16 (as mentioned in another thread) ... and my main tactic against groups of beholder class monsters is to buff up a projected image with the usuall set of spells as has been well explained by other posters above ... and walk into their midst and cast an incendiary cloud ... it will survive long enough to cast it ... then just wait for them to drop as they have nothing to chase ... using 3 web spells in a sequencer is also possible and then cast cloudkills or incendiary cloud from a distance, but the webs rarely ever hold them in place all at once ... that first elder orb in the underdark, the one with the eyestalk, is vulnerable to area effect spells like incendiary cloud cast next to him ... what I did was put 3 firearrows into a sequencer, went in invisible of course and sniped the sidekick beholder with one shot and then left ... the elder orb will eventually chase you back out ... which can be taken advantage of ... on that occassion I had my usuall 4 aerial servants waiting there and he went down right away ...

Thanks for the info peeps on the spell trigger spell ... I thought I missed it on some quest ... I still dont have it and now I know why ...

davfrahen · Post by **davfrahen** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:44 pm

I love the Underdark. So many xp for such little effort. And if you want the best hammer in the game, you`ve got start there.
I do everything outside Ust Natha before I go in there to avoid any time errors.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:14 pm

** Some Spoilers

Concur on using cloudkill spells. I send someone invisible in to scout where they are positioned, then I place the party mage just out of their sight and launch a cloudkill. Sit back and wait, as that will either kill or put most the orb family at near death or at least severely wounded. IIRC, the cloudkill doesn't cause them to chase you (unless they see you), unlike launching a fireball which does trip their trigger and cause them to follow after you. But if the cloudkill doesn't finish them off then I might launch a fireball.

In my first game I learned by chance that my PC (A paladin) was darn near immune to them when he was weilding Carsomyr, had the ring of Gaxx, and the cloak of mirroring. He waded through that whole cavern practically singlehanded.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:49 am

There is a bug with Simulacrums and PIs - the beholders never use their rays on them. So this thing you proposed is cheesy since it depends on a bug.

The thing about Cloudkill also seems like a bug. Why aren't they chasing you when you release a Cloudkill but DO chase if you release an Incendiary Cloud?

And the thing of Keldorn being nearly immune to their attacks is unfortunately only 70% true. Yet remains the question about the Elder Orb or Hive Mother Imprisonment spell against which Magic Resistance doesn't help at all.

The ultimate way for a mage to deal with any kind of Beholder is firing a Spell Trigger with 3 lower resistances followed by a CC with 3 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wiltings. Or simply send a Planetar against them and kill them from a safe distance with spells, protected with a Spell Shield of course. Shapechange to Mind Flayer also helps to kill all except a Hive Mother, she is immune to Mindflayer weapons.

masteralef · Post by **masteralef** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:28 am

The Anti-Magic Ray goes through any kind of spell protection, removing all combat buffs and deflection like spells like spell turning,

I have a suspicion that one of the Protection from Magic scrolls from Ribald might actually beat it, but that's a special case.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:42 am

Protection from Magic scroll stops every kind of magic. Including beholder rays. Imprisonment also doesn't work. 10 lvl spells also. Including your own buffs and spells which dont work

Given the fact that there are only two such scrolls, however, I think that it is better to try to think of a strategy without using them. There are more than 2 Hive mothers in the game, and many other dangerous monsters as well.

BTW, if you play ascension solo, I have a very good feeling that with Barbarian equipped properly and a scroll of Protection from magic you will be invulnerable to any kind of attack if you have enough Hardinesses.