An Afghani-American's Viewpoint

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 4:13 pm

People,

Just got this, wanted to share it with you...

...oh, yeah, the letter was not written to me.

Subject: A sobering piece of writing!

The following was sent to me by a friend whose friend knows Tamim Ansary, the author. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. The friend says he is also one of the most brilliant people he knows in this life. When he writes, he reads! When he talks, he listens! Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.

Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:

I've been hearing a lot of talk out "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we
do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are
millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care?

Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide.

Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people.

Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger
than that, folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by?

You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.

That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the
West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and
millions would die, not just theirs but ours.

Who has the belly for that?

Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary
___________

Tamim has some points there but somehow I disagree that this will lead to WWIII with the world polarized into Islam vs the rest of the world. There are just too much level-headed and thinking people who would allow a another world war to happen with the premise that the cause is about religion. --- Maharlika

Shadow Sandrock · Post by **Shadow Sandrock** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 4:18 pm

This looks strangely familiar...

But it is very good nonetheless.

GrimReaper · Post by **GrimReaper** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 4:35 pm

Very good, but one thing I'd like to point out is that Pakistan has supposedly told the US that they can go through Pakistan and even use it as a base of operations. Still, we are flirting with a world war, it just seems that most of the world is on the same side.

at99 · Post by **at99** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 11:39 pm

To Tamim Ansary,

Have you tried to get your observations through to the powers that be in the USA? The Government? The Media? The more they and others know about this unbelievably tragic scenario, the more determined they should become in a bid to eradicate this evil. I believe, at least I hope, that those powers that be can see the difference between the people of Afghanistan and that regime. Somehow I think they can. The task is an incredibly difficult surgical one. When people calm down a bit, they will understand that bombing ordinary human beings back to the stone age is not very productive, particularly if it has already been done.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 12:23 am

Nuclear weapons take no account of numbers or religious affiliation. ICBM's do not care how many people live in your city or which God you worhsip. Trident missiles do not discriminate. I think that would weigh decisively in a global conflict of Western Civilization VS Islam.

This guy is wrong - he is already out of date with Pakistan.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 1:09 am

I just had two thoughts about this. If your not tired of this cr*p, indulge me as someone who was close to the events.

1. If Mr Laden is peed off at the US for "desecrating" "holy" land (Saudi) shouldn't he really be bombing the Saudi's for letting the US into their territory? Really its all just a lame excuse for being a low-down racist.

2. If their God is going to grant the terrorists eternal life in martyrdom, why the black hoods in the training videos? Surely it doesn't matter if we can see their faces or even how they die if they are fighting the "good" fight? Oh, that's right, they're not martyr's, they're frightened sick cowards who get their rocks of killing civilians.

God Bless America.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Sep 21, 2001 2:39 am

As a pakistani know for sure, that the govt has NOT ALLOWED the US to use pakistan as a staging ground.
And we never will.

It is a little known thing in the muslim world that giving the US bases in your country is trouble.
Look at saudi, they have US forces in for the past 8 years and they haven't left.
The crap about protecting Sauid is just that.
Pakistan has 3 reigments for army infantry and a squad of planes in Saudi.
Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and other muslim countries also have military in the nation as the saudi govt does not have an army of its own.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 3:19 am

@Maharlika -

Judging from what I've stumbled onto on the web, there's more than one radical Islamic group that sees itself at war with the West in general and the U.S. in particular. I don't believe we've seen the last of the attacks.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 3:39 am

Posted by Shadow -

This looks strangely familiar...
But it is very good nonetheless.

KramoR posted this a couple of days ago called 'something to think about'

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:26 am

That is why I am abruptily against Bush's WAR. Happens what happens in a Attack against Taliban lots of inocentes will die in both sides [expecially because air attack seems very dificult againnst people hidding in caves]. In my point of view this war is a little imature, something to cover the feeling of vingance. Is normal if the majority of the americans gives opinion force to a military retaliation. But the government have to think bewond, more rationale, less anger. At now, for example, I don't see anyone talking about break some banks secreets and confiscate Bin Laden's money. Break weapon suport to the Talibans. Is much more dificult to make terrorism without money and weapons.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:13 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner:
@Maharlika -

Judging from what I've stumbled onto on the web, there's more than one radical Islamic group that sees itself at war with the West in general and the U.S. in particular. I don't believe we've seen the last of the attacks.

IMHO, if indeed OBL is responsible for the attacks I do not think that his group did it on its own. I would think that it was a coalition of terrorist groups with OBL as one of the masterminds. Maybe there is a half truth in it when he said he was not responsible (because his team probably botched up their job and crashed instead in PA(?) and not the Capitol or the POTUS' vacation spot at Camp David(?).

At any rate, the terrorists' operation must have taken a whole lot of effort, networking, logistics, etc. that one group cannot do alone.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:40 pm

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
I just had two thoughts about this. If your not tired of this cr*p, indulge me as someone who was close to the events.

1. If Mr Laden is peed off at the US for "desecrating" "holy" land (Saudi) shouldn't he really be bombing the Saudi's for letting the US into their territory? Really its all just a lame excuse for being a low-down racist.

2. If their God is going to grant the terrorists eternal life in martyrdom, why the black hoods in the training videos? Surely it doesn't matter if we can see their faces or even how they die if they are fighting the "good" fight? Oh, that's right, they're not martyr's, they're frightened sick cowards who get their rocks of killing civilians.

God Bless America.

Finally someone, who notices something besides the pimple on their nose.

Thanks Grunty.

GrimReaper · Post by **GrimReaper** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 6:01 pm

Originally posted by Fas:
As a pakistani know for sure, that the govt has NOT ALLOWED the US to use pakistan as a staging ground.
And we never will.

It is a little known thing in the muslim world that giving the US bases in your country is trouble.
Look at saudi, they have US forces in for the past 8 years and they haven't left.
The crap about protecting Sauid is just that.
Pakistan has 3 reigments for army infantry and a squad of planes in Saudi.
Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and other muslim countries also have military in the nation as the saudi govt does not have an army of its own.

Actually, I am now sure that Pakistan has pledged its support to the US. I saw it on the news about an hour ago. There have been many riots (as would be expected), but Pakistan said they would support the US. Whether this means letting the US use Pakistan as a base of operations or just letting the US fly over I don't know, but I am sure that there will be some measure of support.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:23 am

Originally posted by GrimReaper:
Actually, I am now sure that Pakistan has pledged its support to the US. I saw it on the news about an hour ago. There have been many riots (as would be expected), but Pakistan said they would support the US. Whether this means letting the US use Pakistan as a base of operations or just letting the US fly over I don't know, but I am sure that there will be some measure of support.

Ofcourse Pakistan is supporting the US. Otherwise damn Bush would bomb them too for the hell of it.
Pakistan just has a bunch of religious fanatics that are protestsing, but the police is getting them under control.

Seriously i just want to tell everybody that i fear that the US will lose this war.
Why?
Well why did Russia lose a war against a bucnh of men trained by the CIA. They were so powerful then. The US is rushing into war, without any knowledge of the area.

Did anybody hear about an Indian man
(American citizen) who was going to India for his brother's wedding, but was thrown of the plane because the pilot didn't want an asian on the plane.
Its a good thing i wasn't there.
With my rage/ short temper, i would have ripped that guy to pieces.

Now maybe the US can understand how bad it must have been for the survivors of the nuclear bombing back in the 40's.
And in that over 100,000 people died. The US dosn't care at all about that. Maybe now they will learn how bad it must have been for those people.

Final thing- Stop with this god bless america.
It sall the stupid belief in a god that doesn't exist, that cause all these wars and all these people die.
God can't bless one country. Thats what these blasted fanatics keep on saying. god blesses nobody or god blesses everybody.

I wish Clinton was president. he could handle thigns waaay better than bush can.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:33 am

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
I wish Clinton was president. he could handle thigns waaay better than bush can.

Oh, yes, I can see it now.

Reporter: Is the US going to deal with this terrorism problem?
Clinton: Well...now...you see...that depends on your definition of "is."

No offense meant to anyone. Though he may not have been a terrible president, I just don't like Billary and I'm glad he isn't the president anymore.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:40 am

@ Thorin.

When you said they will be rushing in with little knowledge you are I think wrong. Russia have promised logistical and intelligence support to the USA. Basically, America's knowledge of the tunnels they built and Russia's knowledge of terrain, hiding spots etc they will have plenty of intelligence to fight with.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 12:07 pm

Thorin…you have the right to your opinions, but this post is a little inflammatory. Please don’t call other peoples beliefs stupid, and please watch generalizations.
I know this has upset you a great deal, with your father and your friend being personally involved but please think and use common sense before you post.

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: T'lainya ]

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 1:06 pm

Maybe i went overboard on some stuff.

But you guys don't understand. I lived in a country right next to Afghanistan for 3/4s of my life. The CIA has royally screwed up these countries and i am upset. Its their fault. Damn them.
You guys just don't understand. In NYC 1 or 2 people are mudered now and then and it reaches the news.
In Karachi, Pakistan, only till a few years ago, there was a massive war going on between people. They wreacked the city, that was bad enough. Reading in the newspaper, how many people were killed, everyday.
And now these damn fanatics have come and they're causing trouble also.
And their all following the Taliban that was created by the US to fight Russia back in the cold war.

I'm not going after 1 religion. I'm just saying that people do all of this in the name of god, the supposedly great god.

I do denounce religion and god. for thousands of years humans have warred agains each other because of difference of relgion or color of skin and appearence.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 1:13 pm

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
I do denounce religion and god. for thousands of years humans have warred agains each other because of difference of relgion or color of skin and appearence.

Have you considered that religion is merely used as an excuse and is not the main/only cause?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 1:20 pm

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
I'm not going after 1 religion. I'm just saying that people do all of this in the name of god, the supposedly great god.

I do denounce religion and god. for thousands of years humans have warred agains each other because of difference of relgion or color of skin and appearence.

Sleep is right. These people use God/gods as an excuse. Belief in God is, imo, necessary to get through life; but there are those who go to the extreme. But extremists exist in everything.

Thorin, was it not you who stated in another topic last week that you were thanking God that your dad was alive? Do not make God a god of convenience. He is there all the time, not just when things are looking grim and you need a way out of the situation.