Fighter/Thief or Swashbuckler

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:18 pm

I havent figured out whats better yet...
Dual classing a fighter @ lvl 14 and getting a lvl 39 thief lvl 14 fighter at the end of ToB
OR
Getting a lvl 40 swashbuckler

On one hand the swashbuckler gets that nifty -8 to AC @ lvl 40 while getting the +8 to dmg and +8 to hit....

BUT

The dual classed fighter/thief would get their THAC0 dropped by 5 more than the swashbuckler @lvl 40 and would get to put more prof. points in whatever they wanted (like bow) while the swashbuckler could only put 2 prof. points in thief weapons and could put 3 in 2 Weapon Fighting Style...

On the other hand by the time your in ToB everything can hit you just fine... But the fighter/thief would be able to use the bow well while the swashbuckler wouldn't...

Suggestions?

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:23 pm

I would go for the swashbuckler instead because it is a single classed hero and the bonuses to hit and attack are great. Furthermore it is a focused PC and you don't have to go through the dual classing stuff.

O btw if you are intent on going the fighter/thief road then you can try to get two strongholds as mentioned in the faq.
The way where you complete the d'arnise keep string but then decline nalias proposal w/o denying her completely. Then come back after you get your thief stronghold and she will be waiting for you on the drawbridge. The you can say that you decided to agree to her offer and get the two strongholds exploit.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:21 pm

Well..

Multis tend to do better than duals in ToB because they have access to both pools of HLAs, so your F/T can use (for example)Carsomyr with Greater Whirlwind - ouch...

But, it's a tradeoff, so flavour to taste.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:18 pm

One thing to consider is whether you want a character who can backstab. IMO, that's the biggest difference between a Swashbuckler and a Fighter dualled to a Thief.

I agree with nephtu: you should also consider playing a multi-class Fighter/Thief. Your levels won't be as high at the same amount of experience, but you'll get High Level Abilities somewhere around 3 million experience points whichever path you choose, and having Fighter as well as Thief HLAs is really pretty cool.

Idioteque · Post by **Idioteque** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:26 pm

I have a multi fighter/thief who just gained UAI ablilty so hes wielding Carsomyr

He also has the ability to have all his hits count as backstabs for a short period so he's a real killing machine.

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:05 am

And If you feel like you can have (thanks SK) a multi kensai-thief (evil????)

ANASTASIA · Post by **ANASTASIA** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:57 am

swashbuckler!!!!

i have been playing this soA for years and i liked the swashbuckler best!in when you gain a few levels,nobody will be able to touch you. your ac will be probably the lowest of all in your party. and apart from that...it is not good deviding ex.p.

good luck in starting!!!!!

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:48 pm

But by ToB most people can hit you just fine... so I was wondering if the AC bonus is really worth it??

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:11 am

Probably not...

In my experience (and particularly in the later dtages of the game), the best defence is a good offence - kill things quick, and your AC becomes secondary - good AC mostly saves you time not having to heal or regen up after clearing the nuisance monsters.

Sker · Post by **Sker** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:11 pm

Kind of surprised the Swash/Fighter dual combination hasn't been mentioned. As far as melee goes it's quite powerful.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:46 pm

Originally posted by Sker
Kind of surprised the Swash/Fighter dual combination hasn't been mentioned. As far as melee goes it's quite powerful.

I don't see any advantage over a pure fighter. You would get a couple of AC bonuses but, as mentioned above, AC becomes irrelevant later in the game. The bonuses to THAC0 would be eclipsed by the fighter's faster progression on the THAC0 table.
And you would lose the Backstab multiplier, which is the main reason I can see for mixing Fighter and Thief classes.

The only advantage would be that you would get the Thieving skills, but that wouldn't be a particular advantage in melee and you could get a slight edge with the Thief/Fighter's Backstab mulitplier.

ronin69hof · Post by **ronin69hof** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:11 pm

Install the Rogue Rebalancing mod and your swashbuckler will have the same thac0 as a fighter. mod located here: aVENGER's Realm - Documentation

aVENGER did a superb job with the mod in the new version!!!!!

ronin

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:25 pm

Are you sure the proficiencies don't stack?

I believe that they might. I remember that I had a Swashbuckler with two points in two weapon style and when I dualed him to a cleric I invested in the same proficiency and it stacked to three. Also, shadowkeeper proficiency editing goes up to seven stars which you theoretically could get by dualing a swashbuckler to a fighter. I'll have to test it though to be sure.

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:59 pm

Ekental wrote:But by ToB most people can hit you just fine... so I was wondering if the AC bonus is really worth it??

I disagree. If you put points in single weapon skill, you will have an AC of 26 in ToB (or even before) and AC 29 or 30 depending on armor/equipment vs particular types of physical damage. If you have a party that can cast spells on you, it's a simple thing to hit the game engine limit of AC30 vs all physical damage. (It's also easy enough to hit AC30 dual wielding in a party through spells and equipment.) This most certainly matters. A very few foes will hit you on a regular basis, but they will also miss you on a regular basis.

If you like to backstab (an easy way to break the normal game), then the fighter-thief multiclass is probably best. Otherwise, I think that the swashbuckler makes the regular game easier.

Crucis · Post by **Crucis** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:08 am

rbeverjr wrote:If you like to backstab, then the fighter-thief multiclass is probably best. Otherwise, I think that the swashbuckler makes the regular game easier.

I agree with this statement. The F/Th MC is a backstabber's dream, excellent Thac0, multiple attacks/rnd, solid backstabbing multiplier, excellent HLA's. A ftr/thf MC with the Assassination HLA becomes a killing machine.

OTOH, if you want a character who's more focused on theiving skills, than being a killing machine, then the Swashy is the way to go.

And, BTW, why was this 4 year old thread resurrected?

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:36 pm

Go F/Th or F->Th. They are really that much more powerful.

Crucis wrote:And, BTW, why was this 4 year old thread resurrected?

I concur- why was this tread brought back to life?

Grombag · Post by **Grombag** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:34 am

Well, if you read back, you would find this post being the bouncer.

ronin69hof wrote:Install the Rogue Rebalancing mod and your swashbuckler will have the same thac0 as a fighter. mod located here: aVENGER's Realm - Documentation

aVENGER did a superb job with the mod in the new version!!!!!

ronin

You could note that it is for future reference.

ronin69hof · Post by **ronin69hof** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:45 am

I must apologize for opening such an old topic, but for some reason it showed up as a new unread post and I didnt think to check the date on the post before mine. It wont happen again.

again, my apologies.