Is IWD a "real" RPG

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:33 pm

Owing to a discussion in the "Looking for an Old RPG" thread that has extended to whether or not IWD can be defined as a "real RPG" I figured it might make sense to create a new thread

For my own two cents, I do indeed think IWD qualifies as a true RPG. However, I also feel it lacks the strong story elements of BG2 and PS:T. In the latter two games, story and party dialogue are integral to the game, this is not quite so strongly at the fore in IWD. In IWD story takes a backstage role compared to combat and strategy.
Just my POV anyway

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:14 pm

I also felt we were getting off topic in the other thread. Personally, I have already given my POV in the other thread, which is pretty much the same as yours. So I don't have much to add for now.

I guess our main interrogation was not if IWD is a "real" RPG or an action RPG, but if an action RPG fan (being Maggie) could enjoy IWD.

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:04 pm

IWD isn't an action RPG, it's just a bad RPG

Ferrick · Post by **Ferrick** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:23 pm

The thing I really like/liked about IWD is how you can build your party the way that you wanted. For the fun of it I used every race available: Dwarven Fighter, Half-Elven Ranger, Human Cleric, Halfling Thief/Fighter, Gnome Illusionist/Cleric, and an Elven Magic User/Fighter. So I had 4 fighters (the Gnome and Elf were strickly range fighters when it came to using weapons), 2 Clerics, 2 Magic Users, and a Thief.

That to me is certainly an RPG element that I haven't come across in any other game (though in all fairness the BG series had the element that those who joined your party were of their own will and personality something IWD could not offer, but then again it wasn't designed to do so).

If Diablo, Dungeon Siege, and NOX, along with Divine Divinity, can be considered a branch of the RPG genre' then certainly IWD more than meets the requirement.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:05 am

Ferrick wrote:
If Diablo, Dungeon Siege, and NOX, along with Divine Divinity, can be considered a branch of the RPG genre' then certainly IWD more than meets the requirement.

I agree completely. Though some will argue that Diablo was mislabeled.
Also, in certain ways, I'm not sure IWD differs all that much from some of the Ultima series, and I doubt anyone would dispute that the Ultima games qualify as RPGs.

I suppose a lot of this rests, really, on how we define RPGs. For me, personally, an RPG is a game that has a significant background story in which you have considerable flexibility as to how you create your character. I also tend to prefer D&D rules, but I do not think their existence in a game necessarily determines whether or not it is an RPG.
Going by that criteria, IWD certainly fits the term "RPG." Though I admit, I haven't exactly set up the most narrow parameters there

(Incidentally, I also think that the boundaries between RPGs and Adventure Games can get slightly blurred sometimes)

xraygord · Post by **xraygord** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:10 am

IWD was a bad just RPG, I recently completed the game. But I'm into IWD 2 now and it is so much better. It has alot of cool elements, and way more roleplaying.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:29 am

If Diablo, Dungeon Siege, and NOX, along with Divine Divinity

Lumping Divine Divinity in with 3 action games doesn't exactly work well. DD was actually based on Ultima VII. DD allows you to pause your game in combat, examine, and choose news spells, weapons, and armor. It has major interaction with the environment, including the combination of a range of naturally occurring objects in homes and gardens; as many as 20 quests going simultaneously; extensive, important dialog with various NPCs, that isn't just about quests; quests that involve problem solving, rather than go-kill-return; and nearly complete non-linearity through much of the game.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:37 am

IWD is a "real" rpg, and a good one.
The story is rpg-like as any story can be, evil threatens the world and a party of 6 heroic adventurers (combined from the different tradional character classes and races) try to find and fight it.
Gaining fighting and roleplaying XP and equipment during the game turns the party from weaklings at the start into powerful heroes.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:53 am

I'm a fan of the IWD series and I'm currently playing Divine Divinity. I'd say both are rpgs and not action rpgs. IWD has all the elements of an rpg that BG has except the party interaction and its story is better than many other rpgs on the market. The IWD games may be linear but you can roleplay them just as much as you can roleplay BG2, in my opinion.

As for Divine Divinity - although like in all games you have the main storyline to follow, I've spent a good 12 hours playing it so far and I've barely got anywhere with the main story. I'm just waltzing around, roleplaying an adventurer. There are ample opportunitie to roleplay your character and its not just endless hack and slash like an action rpg (in fact there is no more fighting in Divine Divinity than there is in an unmodded Morrowind).

So in my opinion, both IWD and Divine Divinity are "real" computer rpgs.

Faendalimas · Post by **Faendalimas** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:10 pm

I guess I would be one of those who consider Diablo mislabeled personally I consider it a straight out hack and slash, don't take that wrong though I think it is a good game.

On the IWD series I consider it an RPG because of its base story line and game mechanics, personally I think what it left out in comparison to other Infinity games was rather detrimental to roleplay, but I played them all through and I did enjoy them.

Although I am the first to admit that this is all personal opinion and points of view some of the so called features of RPG's people have listed here really have little to do with roleplay, but I am very hardcore roleplay of a D&D background so like I said thats my own views that work for me, they are no more rigidly correct than anyone else's.

Have not played Divine Divinity so can't comment on it fairly at all.

Cheers, Faen

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:29 pm

Faendalimas wrote:I guess I would be one of those who consider Diablo mislabeled personally I consider it a straight out hack and slash, don't take that wrong though I think it is a good game.

You're welcome to consider it a lousy game, if you want. No one will think less of you for it. The point isn't what you like or dislike, but whether you have good reasons for that particular like or dislike. Personally, I found Diablo a bore. So did CElegans, the mod of the PS:T forum, but she liked it precisely for that reason. After working as a neurobiologist all day, she likes relaxing by killiing things mindlessly, without worrying about rollplaying or roleplaying.

And many of us consider Diablo an action game. It has next to nothing in common with RPGs, though it was sold as such by a PR department with lots of cash, to bring in an audience that would have otherwise have paid little attention to the game.

Faendalimas · Post by **Faendalimas** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:32 pm

fable wrote:You're welcome to consider it a lousy game, if you want. No one will think less of you for it. The point isn't what you like or dislike, but whether you have good reasons for that particular like or dislike. Personally, I found Diablo a bore. So did CElegans, the mod of the PS:T forum, but she liked it precisely for that reason. After working as a neurobiologist all day, she likes relaxing by killiing things mindlessly, without worrying about rollplaying or roleplaying.

Yep understand that, I just didn't want anyone to think I thought it was a bad game because I don't think it is an rpg. I probably like the game for unusual reasons. Firstly I admit that sometimes it does feel good to just go in and slaughter things with no mental requirements and Diablo certainly filled that niche. Also I guess it has sentimental value to me as its the game I cut my modding teeth on, ie its the game I learned how to hex edit and I also learned assembly because of it. But I am digressing here.

I was going to try and explain my statement "some of the so called features of RPG's people have listed here really have little to do with roleplay" but can't think of a quick way to do it. If anyone wants me to explain that ask I will do so. Its to do with the core rules of D&D which the Infinity games are loosely based on.

Cheers, Faen

alias · Post by **alias** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:00 pm

Regardless of whether Icewind Dale is a true RPG or not, it is allot of fun. Unlike the Baldur's Gate series, you get to create a whole team of your own characters instead of just one character, and you get to take them throughout the realms battling monsters as you go. So as far as I can tell, yeah it's a true RPG. Some fun stuff there.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm

I prefer not to hang on the 'genre' of a game, because I don't really care how the game is called: Action, RPG, Action-RPG or Adventure. What I want to see clearly labled on the box (or on the game's web-site) is:

does the game allows a flexible protagonist of either gender;
does the game includes a talkative party of the developper-created characters;
what's the party limit and is it flexible;
is it a twitch game;
is the game moddable;

Basically, nowadays, the 2 first questions has to have the 'yes' answer before I even consider purchasing the game.

Back in 1998 when IWD was out I was not picky, because there was simply no real alternative - or at least I did not know about them (I am not the old school gamer). I don't remember IWD1 all that well - apart from the great music, but once BG2 was out, its appeal was just lost for me. After BG2, the game was only playable after modding the talkative characters in.

It is a pity they didn't put a party in into IWD2 (there seemed to have been an attempt with the 'custom' parties), because imo, IWD2 did a number of things right. But it woefully just stopped short of putting an extra effort and making it Great (or an RPG, if you prefer this a synonim to 'great'.)