What makes a RPG a RPG?

maazrazi · Post by **maazrazi** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:50 pm

i would say an rpg would have to be a game in which you have more freedom to do whatever the hell we want [honestly,who cares about non-rpgs in which we have to do what we have to do-it makes it so obvious about whats gonna happen] the reason most people play videogames[besides killing time]is curiosity,and rpgs would be the best-so in my idea the rpg must have aLOT options of what to do to make it an rpg.

maazrazi · Post by **maazrazi** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:53 pm

after reading most of the replies to the question about rpgs, i must say that we're all trying to say say the same damn thing-FREEDOM!

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:40 pm

maazrazi wrote:after reading most of the replies to the question about rpgs, i must say that we're all trying to say say the same damn thing-FREEDOM!

Er, no.

Mind, you're welcome to state what you personally like. You're just not welcome to tell the rest of us what we like.

While I think it's safe to state that many of us enjoy a level of "false freedom" in the game environment that provides an illusion of go-anywhere-do-anything, we're actually discussing a whole range of issues. For myself, intelligently written characters with a good deal of dialog, a decent plot, and a highly interactive environment are the most important things in an RPG.

9threaver · Post by **9threaver** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:30 pm

as long as you customize character, get xp or are able to get lvl ups or something to upgrade the character i'd say its rpg

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:24 am

9threaver wrote:as long as you customize character, get xp or are able to get lvl ups or something to upgrade the character i'd say its rpg

I can do that in Civilization 4, nonetheless, Civ 4 is no RPG. I agree that this game mechanic can be found in most, if not all RPGs. That doesn't mean that this game mechanic determines the genre of the game - it's the other way around.

A good RPG, for me, is a game where I can choose or make different types of characters, develop those characters differently and thus be able to interact significantly different with the game world every time I choose a different character to replay the game.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:03 pm

9threaver wrote:as long as you customize character, get xp or are able to get lvl ups or something to upgrade the character i'd say its rpg

Games that have this that aren't RPG's-

Quake 2, 3, and 4.
Doom 3.
Civilization 4.
Warcraft 3.
The Legend of Zelda series.
Metroid Series
Megaman Series
Super Mario Brothers.
Overlord.
The Darkness.
Resident Evil 3, 4.

And those are just games that I've played. I'm sure there's more. So no, customizable characters and XP/leveling up with more skills does not define an RPG. RPG is ROLE playing game, you play the ROLE of someone, not the stats.

Harvest moon has very little character customization or leveling up/skill improvement, and yet it's nearly a pure RPG.

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:06 am

Siberys wrote: And those are just games that I've played. I'm sure there's more. So no, customizable characters and XP/leveling up with more skills does not define an RPG. RPG is ROLE playing game, you play the ROLE of someone, not the stats.

So a RPG is a game which allows me to play the role of someone? Now this surely excludes Tetris and Pong (although I'm not so sure about Pong).

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:04 am

So a RPG is a game which allows me to play the role of someone? Now this surely excludes Tetris and Pong (although I'm not so sure about Pong).

Yes, in it's most basic form. Obviously with the more complex games we have, the more complex the definition of roleplaying is, so this is subject to change by opinion. My point was is that it wasn't about the stats of a character but rather the role of a character.

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:49 am

And all this while you're calling Final Fantasy games action-adventures and "not really 'Role-playing'"? If you're telling me to consider Halo a RPG because I play the role of a soldier then don't expect me to take you seriously. It's a FPS, that's the genre. If you want to go deeper than this, you can call it a combat simulation, where the game lets you step into the shoes of a soldier. Same goes for a racing game.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:57 am

I remember talking to my friend about RPGs and he made a joke about all games (no matter the genre) being role-playing games because of the fact that you play a role of someone (or something). Kind of laughed at this idea. :laugh:

But to be honest, after coming to this site, I'm not even sure what the heck an RPG is anymore. Some say it's all about character customisation. Some say it's all about open-endedness. It seems like they're undergoing an identity crisis or something.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:31 am

Monolith wrote:And all this while you're calling Final Fantasy games action-adventures and "not really 'Role-playing'"? If you're telling me to consider Halo a RPG because I play the role of a soldier then don't expect me to take you seriously. It's a FPS, that's the genre. If you want to go deeper than this, you can call it a combat simulation, where the game lets you step into the shoes of a soldier. Same goes for a racing game.

I'm not. I never said anything like this at all.

I said, once again, the BASIS of RPG is that it's ROLEplaying. Yes, the definition has changed since the old games. Yes, it's much more complex and No, games like quake 4 and Doom 3 are NOT RPG's. So please quit twisting my words.

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:50 am

Sorry, but there is not much to twist.

"RPG is ROLE playing game, you play the ROLE of someone"

Your answer to my question ("So a RPG is a game which allows me to play the role of someone?") was: "Yes, in it's most basic form." Halo allows me to play the role of someone. Therefore it's logical to concluded that you see Halo as a RPG (in its most basic form).

The RPG genre derives from PnP RPGs. THEY are the basis. Not 97% of all games ever developed.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:12 pm

Just a reminder to everyone to keep discussion civil and non personal. Differences of opinion and discussion about those differences are fine, but I just want to remnind people not to let anything degenerate to the point where those differences become percieved as personal and too heated.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:24 pm

@Monolith. Once again, I'm not saying that because you play a role of a character in a game, that makes it a roleplaying game. I never said that and never will.

My point. Roleplaying game elements occur in several games, does that make it a roleplaying game? No. Just the same, character customization and leveling up and XP happen in many games that aren't actually roleplaying games either. The definition of RPG changes so much that it's rather hard to apply it to many games.

So yes, if you play a game and are playing the role of someone, that is an RPG -element-, not a full blown RPG. But still, it is a BASIS for RPG's, and that is roleplaying. Basis doesn't mean that everything that has it is 100% an RPG. Just like how Beef is a common BASIS for a taco, but if you put meat in a taco shell, does that make it a taco even without the lettuce, tomatoes, cheese, beans, sour cream and all that good stuff? Not really.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:56 am

Siberys wrote:
My point. Roleplaying game elements occur in several games, does that make it a roleplaying game? No. Just the same, character customization and leveling up and XP happen in many games that aren't actually roleplaying games either. The definition of RPG changes so much that it's rather hard to apply it to many games.

I think is it exactly what makes a publisher put the tag "RPG" on its game. For me, at least, the meaning of RPG has shifted from "playing a role" (which is nearly every game exept for Mario Paint) to "a number crunching rulesystem which allows to choose how my character(s) develop mechanicly." Look at all the games that have a seperate forum under GB's "RPG" section. They all have this last element ("a rulesystem") in common.
There are games which do an excellent job of allowing you to play a role, like for example Dreamfall or Wingcommander IV, but don't offer the slightest bit of character customisation, estheticly or mechanicly. If you would qualify these games as RPG, I think most people would laugh at you or at least cast some strange looks your way.

These do, however, allow more opportunity to "play a role" than M&MVI. Once again: very few people will doubt that M&MVI is an RPG "pur sang".
The best RPGs combine the "mechanical" with the "role": Torment, BG, KotOR, Fallout, to name a few.

To be honest, I much prefer the "mechanical-RPG", since I have my imagination to fill in the story and the role I play. In IWD, for instance, I had in my mind an entire background story for each of my partymembers and why they were doing this and what their relation to each other was. For me, that's perhaps more RPG than having a Nobel-price winning plot.

P.S.: Not to say that I don't like a good story, hell, Torment is my favourite game of all time.

Edward · Post by **Edward** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:04 am

When I read the title of this thread I was internally confident of what I define as an RPG, but once I had finished reading I am entirely uncertain. I've played a lot of games, for computers, playstation, boardgames and other mediums that I would absolutely classify as RPGs. But I don't think I could ever develop a criteria of specific features or elements that constitute an RPG.

I think that during the discussion so far I percieved three main elements that people discussed:

-Rules and Mechanics: Levelling up, skills etc. This would have to be the least convincing factor in determining what an RPG is for me. The afore mentioned example of Harvest Moon and many other similar games prove this.

-Role Playing: I really enjoyed thinking about the idea of every game having this element of an RPG. However, some games have in game considerations ie. mechanical and aesthtic character customisation that promote this feature. I can relate to imagining backstories for my IWD party, when I was younger I even did something similar for Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped. So this feature essentially can not help us define a particular game as being an RPG or not apart from if the game facilitates this more so than othes.

-Environment and Plot: The element of a storyline and environment that cahnge and develop in a significant way according to your character and their actions is probably the feature that for me most sets a game apart as an RPG. On the other hand, before reading this thread I would have said that the Final Fantasy games were RPGs but the ability for your actions to affect the story and environment is minimal.

Before reading this thread I was very clear in what games I called RPGs, but now after having read all of your responses, it seems very abstract to me, people having made arguments that convinced me a game was not an RPG but then another contradictory and irreconcilable argument also seemed very reasonable. I suppose what I have gained so far is that, as with literature or film, genres in gaming are also abstract and have a lot of overlap, and that ultimately labelling something doesn't really help me enjoy it, only the companies sell it (as in the case of Diablo)

cyndric · Post by **cyndric** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:28 pm

After coming back and reading all the replies to this thread I started so long ago, I have come to the conclusion that RPG is just a bad label. We all know what a RPG is in our own way. So many games have come and gone which borrowed from other games that the line between catagories is almost erased. Now we can just use the "Oh you'd like that its like Bauldur's Gate" or whatever game is similar.

Sain · Post by **Sain** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:03 pm

A true RPG must provide you with a good level of freedom. No, I don't mean like the Elder Scrolls' or Gothic's freedom, with a wide-open map to explore to your heart's content. I mean being able to choose who to help, what to be, leave either a trail of blood or hope in your wake. The freedom to make a decision is one thing that makes an RPG.
Another important thing is choosing how to play. Chevalier or Assassin, Necromancer, or Priest. If you are forced to be something, or can be master of everything, it's not really an RPG.

Dr.Dr3aM · Post by **Dr.Dr3aM** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:47 pm

I'd agree with Siberys with the part that a role-playing game is a game which allows you to take a certain role.

I'd also add that you are taking that role and developing it from scratch.
Someone else also said that FPS and racing games etc. can be RPGs then. I think that they can't be RPGs simply because in a shooter for example someone mentioned Halo, you are pre-defined as a soldier who is going to kill a horde of monsters/opponents/whatnot because I never played that game. But that's it, you are just a soldier. You couldn't decide to be a farmer in the beginning of the game, could you? Same goes for Need for Speed, for instance, you are gonna drive and upgrade your 4-wheeled monster but you can't suddenly stop and ride a bike, if you get my drift.

Third, as The Witcher's moto, choices and consequences.
In an RPG your actions should affect the further layout of the story, maybe for just a particular character or for the whole world, depending on the size of the action. If I decide to steal from a merchant and get caught doing it, he shouldn't allow me to buy from him again, or maybe he'll summon the city guards who will chase me away, but then again, I can just wait for the merchant until he starts traveling and simply pick him up somewhere in the forest, and kill him if I'm playing some ruthless cutthroat, or I could alternatively apologize, pay the penalty, maybe even go to prison and come out with some of the reputation restored.

Therefore I can say for myself that role, development and freedom are some of the basic elements of an RPG.

rustinpeace91 · Post by **rustinpeace91** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:11 pm

Monolith wrote:You, my friend, should play more RPGs. The best RPGs didn't have character classes.

wtf? which of the best RPGs dont have character classes?
Diablo II
Baldurs Gate/icewind Dale
Eye of the Beholder
Elder Scrolls series
Dragon Age
Dungeon master
Rogue
Ultima series

all have Character classes, do you think none of these are good games?

[QOUTE]And KoTOR is a poor RPG to begin with...[/QUOTE]
thats your opinion, i actually happen to agree, i hated that freakin game. but plenty of others would disagree.