patch question
patch question
havnt not played the game in along time i decided to replay again, at the time i was using patch v34 and i never had a problem with any missions, so is it worth doing the v40 recent patch?
Just my opinion but all of Wesp's unofficial patches have helped the game and I've tried just about all of them. Playing with the 4.0 patch right now.
There is some confusion now though as there is now two different unofficial patches (beside the official 1.2) by two different people. I just found this out myself recently.
The numbering of these patches further complicates things as Wesp's latest is 4.0 and now the other maker started at 4.01AF or something like that and now has like 2 or 3 newer ones.
The other patches require a full uninstall and fresh install to apply those patches (if you have any of Wesp's installed) and Wesp's patches can all go on top of each other without having to un-install.
The two different unofficial patches are not compatible with each other and because of this confusion, someone is going to end up installing one over the other and screwing up his game.
What I don't personally like about all this is the new maker insists on trashing Wesp's work to get others to try his. Very distasteful to me and completely unnecessary. Don't know why he chose that course.
I don't get into things like, "this is the way the game was meant to be" stuff like the other author is claiming with his work. That is something that is full of conjecture and that no body really knows for sure except maybe the author of the game itself (and probably even some of his ideas were changed along the way as more input came in). This game didn't come out fully finished and the direction and content of the game changed many times in the making of it. Lots of things that were intended never made it in when it was released and I suspect some unintended things did get in. So no one is going to be right.
All I'm concerned with is my personal experience playing the game. That's it. I could care less about arguments concering personal opinions about what was originally intended for the reasons I already stated. If someone takes some kinks out (which this game has) and makes some changes that I like better than before, that's cool with me, as I'm the one enjoying it. It's a personal choice to have the changes or not. Don't like it, don't install it. Simple.
This game was unfinished, and unsupported when it came out. It was left hanging in the wind and as far as I'm concerned is fair game for changes that may or may not have been put in the game anyway if the makers would have had the time they needed to really finish it. Highly questionable the term, "pure" that the other author likes to claim about his work. For this game, "pure" is in the eye of the beholder.
Prefer one authors unofficial patch over the other? Fine, not a problem, play which one you happen to like best. No need to make it personal as the other author seems to want to do. I haven't seen Wesp do this, he's just doing his thing trying to improve the game and it works for me. I for one appreciate the effort and result for all the work he's done.
There is some confusion now though as there is now two different unofficial patches (beside the official 1.2) by two different people. I just found this out myself recently.
The numbering of these patches further complicates things as Wesp's latest is 4.0 and now the other maker started at 4.01AF or something like that and now has like 2 or 3 newer ones.
The other patches require a full uninstall and fresh install to apply those patches (if you have any of Wesp's installed) and Wesp's patches can all go on top of each other without having to un-install.
The two different unofficial patches are not compatible with each other and because of this confusion, someone is going to end up installing one over the other and screwing up his game.
What I don't personally like about all this is the new maker insists on trashing Wesp's work to get others to try his. Very distasteful to me and completely unnecessary. Don't know why he chose that course.
I don't get into things like, "this is the way the game was meant to be" stuff like the other author is claiming with his work. That is something that is full of conjecture and that no body really knows for sure except maybe the author of the game itself (and probably even some of his ideas were changed along the way as more input came in). This game didn't come out fully finished and the direction and content of the game changed many times in the making of it. Lots of things that were intended never made it in when it was released and I suspect some unintended things did get in. So no one is going to be right.
All I'm concerned with is my personal experience playing the game. That's it. I could care less about arguments concering personal opinions about what was originally intended for the reasons I already stated. If someone takes some kinks out (which this game has) and makes some changes that I like better than before, that's cool with me, as I'm the one enjoying it. It's a personal choice to have the changes or not. Don't like it, don't install it. Simple.
This game was unfinished, and unsupported when it came out. It was left hanging in the wind and as far as I'm concerned is fair game for changes that may or may not have been put in the game anyway if the makers would have had the time they needed to really finish it. Highly questionable the term, "pure" that the other author likes to claim about his work. For this game, "pure" is in the eye of the beholder.
Prefer one authors unofficial patch over the other? Fine, not a problem, play which one you happen to like best. No need to make it personal as the other author seems to want to do. I haven't seen Wesp do this, he's just doing his thing trying to improve the game and it works for me. I for one appreciate the effort and result for all the work he's done.
Thanks for your support and hopefully the 4.0 version issue will resolve itself when my next patch 4.1 comes out provided the other team stays true to their own numbering scheme.Mike89 wrote: Prefer one authors unofficial patch over the other? Fine, not a problem, play which one you happen to like best. No need to make it personal as the other author seems to want to do. I haven't seen Wesp do this, he's just doing his thing trying to improve the game and it works for me. I for one appreciate the effort and result for all the work he's done.
Speaking as a member of "the other team," I can tell you that we'll be releasing version 4.05AT of the True VTMB Patch in about a month.
Since our patches are concerned with bug fixes and restorations only, and not with making arbitrary gameplay modifications, we do not release new versions at anywhere near the same rate that Wesp does. As I look back at the history here, it appears that Wesp releases a new version of his mod every four to six weeks. For example, our first patch was deignated as version 4.01AT, back at a time when Wesp's mod was at version 3.2 (if I am remembering correctly).
So basically, we have only released four versions of our patch in the past nine months, as compared to eight different releases from Wesp (nine, if you count his "basic" mod). With that being the case, I can foresee a time in the not-too-distant future when Wesp's version numbers surpass our own, given the typically short time frame between his various releases.
To avoid any confusion, it's probably best to just focus on the suffix: if it says "AT" at the end, then its the True VTMB Patch. If not, then it's somebody else's work.
Since our patches are concerned with bug fixes and restorations only, and not with making arbitrary gameplay modifications, we do not release new versions at anywhere near the same rate that Wesp does. As I look back at the history here, it appears that Wesp releases a new version of his mod every four to six weeks. For example, our first patch was deignated as version 4.01AT, back at a time when Wesp's mod was at version 3.2 (if I am remembering correctly).
So basically, we have only released four versions of our patch in the past nine months, as compared to eight different releases from Wesp (nine, if you count his "basic" mod). With that being the case, I can foresee a time in the not-too-distant future when Wesp's version numbers surpass our own, given the typically short time frame between his various releases.
To avoid any confusion, it's probably best to just focus on the suffix: if it says "AT" at the end, then its the True VTMB Patch. If not, then it's somebody else's work.
Yes, you can install 4.0 on top of 3.4 and if you want to stay closer to the original game install the "basic" version of 4.0 on top of it all. You can even install 4.0 on top of any of the "true" patches but not the other way around.alleykatt wrote:this has confused me even more nowso i've already got v34 patch on so i can only install the v40 patch as the AT? one cant be merged? yes?
All the patches contain some tweaking in the config.sys but besides that there is no way to make the fps rate better.have any of the patches made the fps rate better? outta curiosity?
Alleykat, as Wesp stated you can install any of his unofficial patches on top of each other with no problem. If you choose to go with the "AT" unofficial patches instead, then you would have to un-install the game and install it again, put in the official 1.2 patch and then install the "AT" patches.
It all comes down to what you want in this game and how much work you want to do to get it.
Myself, I'm quite happy with Wesp's patches. I don't have any reason to go through the work of trying a different makers patch. About the only way I might prefer one over the other is if one made more changes that I liked than the other did.
I really have no comment on the other makers patch one way or the other as I have not tried it, so have made no comparisons.
Competition is always a good thing, the more choices for the user, the better. My remarks were more geared to keeping the competition clean and opinions about what the game should or should not be.
As far as the fps, the most effective way is to have a stronger system for smoother gameplay. As I understand it, the game isn't and can't be fully optimized since the game maker never released the source code for others to work on to try to enhance that aspect of the game. About all that can be done (without having the source code) is stuff like making changes to dialog and how the dialog choices affect other things in the game (where there were quite a few glitches in the original game). I find it admirable that even without any help whatsoever from the game makers who abandoned this game, the game continues to improve from the work of people doing it privately with the tools at hand.
If I had the knowledge and experience to get into this game the way Wesp and the other makers have, I'd create my own "unofficial" patch (or mod as it's been referred to as) as I could come with all kinds of ideas of what I'd change in the dialog (and subsequent actions) area. It would be fun, and I expect that's partly why others are doing it. My goal would be to make it a more fun game to play, without being restricted by what others think the game should be.
It all comes down to what you want in this game and how much work you want to do to get it.
Myself, I'm quite happy with Wesp's patches. I don't have any reason to go through the work of trying a different makers patch. About the only way I might prefer one over the other is if one made more changes that I liked than the other did.
I really have no comment on the other makers patch one way or the other as I have not tried it, so have made no comparisons.
Competition is always a good thing, the more choices for the user, the better. My remarks were more geared to keeping the competition clean and opinions about what the game should or should not be.
As far as the fps, the most effective way is to have a stronger system for smoother gameplay. As I understand it, the game isn't and can't be fully optimized since the game maker never released the source code for others to work on to try to enhance that aspect of the game. About all that can be done (without having the source code) is stuff like making changes to dialog and how the dialog choices affect other things in the game (where there were quite a few glitches in the original game). I find it admirable that even without any help whatsoever from the game makers who abandoned this game, the game continues to improve from the work of people doing it privately with the tools at hand.
If I had the knowledge and experience to get into this game the way Wesp and the other makers have, I'd create my own "unofficial" patch (or mod as it's been referred to as) as I could come with all kinds of ideas of what I'd change in the dialog (and subsequent actions) area. It would be fun, and I expect that's partly why others are doing it. My goal would be to make it a more fun game to play, without being restricted by what others think the game should be.
I'm not sure where you got that idea from, Wesp. That has never been our position. What we have said is that we will only restore those things that we feel Troika wanted to be included in the game, but that were left unfinished due to time constraints. The extended "ghouling Heather" scene that we restored would be one such example.Wesp5 wrote:Speaking of restorations, I thought your patch was not going to do restorations at all.
But how should we know what Troika wanted to be included? I agree about the Heather scene which I restored a long time ago already, but why are you e.g. including the SWAT rifle? My "basic" patch is closer to the released version in that regard than your "true" patch. If you continue second guessing Troika and restoring unused stuff you'll end up with a patch like mine and I'm sure that's not what you set out to doTessera wrote:What we have said is that we will only restore those things that we feel Troika wanted to be included in the game, but that were left unfinished due to time constraints. The extended "ghouling Heather" scene that we restored would be one such example.
!You have never restored the Heather scene, Wesp. You attempted to do so once, but the players asked you to remove it because your reconstruction was unsatisfactory at best. You quickly removed your version and your subsequent mods do not include that scene. If you play VTMB with our 4.04AT patch, you'll see that there was an entire roleplaying sequence revolving around Heather that had never been finished by Troika. The True VTMB Patch has fully restored that scene (including the addition of new Malkavian dialogue), as well as several others throughout the game.Wesp5 wrote:But how should we know what Troika wanted to be included? I agree about the Heather scene which I restored a long time ago already
The other issue that you've mentioned regarding the SWAT rifle was solved by Acrimonious, and was based upon unfinished dialogue and scripting that was included in the original release. We are continuing to address that particular item in detail, and the next release of the True VTMB Patch will include further repairs and tweaks to that particular weapon.
In general, our decisions regarding originally intended content have been based upon interviews with former members of the Troika team, as well as clues scattered throughout many unfinished files from the game itself. My job is to check those clues against roleplaying and continuity factors, and then make a decision based upon all of the available data. In any case, I'm not going to get into another debate with you, Wesp. I think the most discerning Bloodlines players already know the difference between what we do, and what you have done. You are quite right that we have no intention of doing a total conversion mod for VTMB, as you have done. Nor would we ever label a total conversion mod as an "unofficial patch," because we would never mislead the players that way -- especially new players. Nor would we release a so-called "basic patch" that is filled with arbitrary changes to gameplay and dumbed-down quest rewards (which is hardly what anyone would call "basic," it's just a bit less severe than your other mods). Let's just leave it at that.
If anyone has any further inquiries about the True VTMB Patch, then you can probably find your answers in the official thread for version 4.04AT, which can be found at the link below.
TRUE VTMB PATCH 4.04AT -- OFFICIAL THREAD
As always, keep in mind that tessmage.com is a website intended for adults and it features mature content-- but then again, VTMB is a mature game intended for adults, too.
Your arrogance is both astounding and rather sickening dude. I don't know who died and named you almighty Vampire Bloodlines caretaker (which it seems you have self proclaimed yourself to be). Lets see some print of all these so called interviews you've conducted with Toika Vampire Bloodlines game makers. I would be very interested to read them.Wesp. I think the most discerning Bloodlines players already know the difference between what we do, and what you have done. Let's just leave it at that.
Where are all these discerning Bloodline players you speak of that supposedly agree with you? I'm sure there are just as many who don't and I'm also sure I'm not the only one who is really disgusted with your methods.
You really need to trade that high horse you're sitting on for something a little closer to the ground (seems you're a bit dizzy from the altitude).
I am not interested in your opinions, Mike. You have already tried to invade my forums with your opinions this past weekend -- unsuccessfully, I might add. If you enjoy playing total conversion mods, instead of playing the actual game that Troika created, then more power to you. Our patch is not intended for players of your ilk -- it is intended for players who want to enjoy a bug-free version of Troika's original masterpiece. The difference between our patch and Wesp's mods is like the difference between apples and oranges, in that respect. Once you understand that difference, you will begin to appreciate the position that I and thousands of others have taken in regards to this situation.Mike89 wrote:Your arrogance is both astounding and rather sickening dude.
With over 10,000 downloads worldwide, I think it is safe to assume that version 4.04AT has been a big hit with the purists. Since the purists are the only people that our patch is intended for, you shouldn't have any issues with what I say about it, since you are clearly not on the same page as we are. In short: you and I are not playing the same game. I am playing Bloodlines -- the way Troika wanted it to be played.
I'm really not interested in your opinions either because just like mine, that's what yours are also. Everybody's got one right. The difference between mine and yours are mine are opinions, you take the position of thinking yours are facts instead of opinions and that they aren't to be disputed.
I didn't "invade" your forum. I simply responded to your comments that I thought were out of line but I guess according to you, that's not acceptable. Speaking of which, there are not very many people there posting about Bloodlines are about how much reverance they are paying to you or your patch is there?
It comes down to this. I dispute your "this is the way the game is meant to be played" statements. Neither you nor I know that or even what that means.
You can't back up anything you say and about the only thing you can come up with is sarcastic arrogant statements that anyone who thinks different than you must be inferior or not in the same elite league you seem to think you are in.
Ask a thousand people how they think Vampire Bloodlines was meant to be played and you will get a thousand different answers. For some reason you think they will all agree with you.
As far as how many downloads there have been. A lot of the people seeking those downloads have no idea what they are looking for. Most of them are thinking they are going after one of Wesp's patches (because those patches have been going on for so long) and end up getting one of yours because of the confusion of the numbering scheme. I was one of those. I heard about the 4.0 patch, went looking for it and then saw yours with the "AF" at the end. I'm thinking, "what is this"?. I poke around here, go to the other forum, see your comments trashing Wesp's, proclaiming yours as the end all be all patch and am thinking, "who the hell is this guy". I bet most of the places that are hosting the patches have no idea that they are different from one another rather than just an updated patch.
Most of the people don't have a clue. You're interpreting this as they are all loyal to your patches and are abandoning Wesp's.
Bottom line, I think you are rather full of yourself and I think the stuff you've put in your head regarding your patches, the following you think you have, and the flat ownership that you've given yourself of Vampire Bloodlines is just plain all wrong.
I'm really done talking to you man because this dialog is going nowhere. Keep believing what you want if it makes you feel better.
I didn't "invade" your forum. I simply responded to your comments that I thought were out of line but I guess according to you, that's not acceptable. Speaking of which, there are not very many people there posting about Bloodlines are about how much reverance they are paying to you or your patch is there?
It comes down to this. I dispute your "this is the way the game is meant to be played" statements. Neither you nor I know that or even what that means.
You can't back up anything you say and about the only thing you can come up with is sarcastic arrogant statements that anyone who thinks different than you must be inferior or not in the same elite league you seem to think you are in.
Ask a thousand people how they think Vampire Bloodlines was meant to be played and you will get a thousand different answers. For some reason you think they will all agree with you.
As far as how many downloads there have been. A lot of the people seeking those downloads have no idea what they are looking for. Most of them are thinking they are going after one of Wesp's patches (because those patches have been going on for so long) and end up getting one of yours because of the confusion of the numbering scheme. I was one of those. I heard about the 4.0 patch, went looking for it and then saw yours with the "AF" at the end. I'm thinking, "what is this"?. I poke around here, go to the other forum, see your comments trashing Wesp's, proclaiming yours as the end all be all patch and am thinking, "who the hell is this guy". I bet most of the places that are hosting the patches have no idea that they are different from one another rather than just an updated patch.
Most of the people don't have a clue. You're interpreting this as they are all loyal to your patches and are abandoning Wesp's.
Bottom line, I think you are rather full of yourself and I think the stuff you've put in your head regarding your patches, the following you think you have, and the flat ownership that you've given yourself of Vampire Bloodlines is just plain all wrong.
I'm really done talking to you man because this dialog is going nowhere. Keep believing what you want if it makes you feel better.
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fable
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Thread's temporarily closed, gang. It's gone from a reasonable, direct question about a patch, into some intense attacks from multiple parties that GameBanshee won't countenance. Buck, our site owner, will probably reopen this at some point, but for the moment, I suspect he will want to hear from the people concerned whether they will choose to behave themselves along with all the other kids in the forum sandbox, or insist on cotinuing to throw sand and scream.
And please, don't move this argument to other threads, or start up new threads for this purpose.
And please, don't move this argument to other threads, or start up new threads for this purpose.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
I'm going to leave this thread closed since the original poster's question has been answered, but I wanted to reiterate Fable's request that things stay civil in this forum. Given the history between Wesp5 and Tessera, I'd recommend that the two of you don't participate in the same thread anymore. We've seen several disagreements between the two of you, so I think it's best if you just steer clear of one another. Carry on .
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