Favorite and Interesting Character Builds.

[GawainBS]

It's more a matter of taste, I think. I feel more comfortable knowing that my level advancement in one or the other class isn't finished.

[Klorox]

I have never thought of bards as frail. Usually, my bards have around ten strength anyway as I use the Strength spell until I get the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength. Strength isn't a problem. As for multiclassing, I think it's very limited. It's is more set in stone that dualclassing and thus doesn't give you a lot of options in how you want your character made. Sure, you might gain more abilities but really, it's all in the class bonuses. Like for the fighter/mage, you don't get the bonus of the Kensai but you get more abilities which in my opinnion, are unnecessary. I'd rather have Kai and the damage bonus. For the mage, you'll probably take them all anyway and if not, what do you really need? An extra sixth level slot for convenience and perhaps Summon Planetar if you're feeling unsure. The abilities are almost useless and sometimes I wonder if people like them because they're "high level".

It's all about the Greater WhirlWind.

[Thrifalas]

It's all about the Greater WhirlWind.

Improved Haste is way better. ;P

[fable]

Think builds, guys. Not spells. We already have a thread for the spells.

[Crenshinibon]

Improved Haste for this one. Greater Whirlwind has a very short duration. As a Blade or a Kensai/ Thief or Mage, I'd be dualwielding say a Yamato +4 and a Belm +2 for example, which would give me four and a half attacks per round while any mix of fighter would have five and a half attacks per round (Gauntlets of Extraordinary Expertise included). So Improved Haste lasts about 217 seconds (3.6 minutes, 31 rounds) in the case of a level 31 mage (that can STILL best a vanilla fighter or almost any combination that doesn't include the mage class) or 147 seconds (2.45 minutes, 21 rounds) for a level 21 mage, which is about right for dualing a level 19 Kensai to one. If I remember correctly, Greater Whirlwind lasts, at most, for two rounds. Not only does it have a good increase to attacks per round but it also doubles the damage healed (as well as the damage overtime taken). You'd get more out of this one. Also, some abilities stack with Improved Haste such as Offensive Spin and Boon of Lathender. For the latter, as it stacks upon itself, you could cast the spell, use the ability four times and reach ten attacks per round while using a weapon and a shield. The only reason as to why you'd use Greater Whirlwind is if you want a higher defense at the cost of attack speed (which isn't a problem for a Blade) or you're a vanilla figther type and don't have access to items that grand Improved Haste.

[Thrifalas]

GWW is one round and spells are capped at 20, so your calculations are wrong. And why would anyone dual at 19? ;p The good thing with GWW is that it's 10 attacks set, which is nice for 2h weapons with usually only gets to 6 attacks with Imp Haste. Also, you don't need more than max 2 GDB, 1 Smite, 2 Hardiness and 2 RM for a fighter, so you might as well pour your points into GWW. It's not like you use your 1-ability/round for much else as a regular fighter. Sarevok usually have lots of GWW when in my party, you'll want max attacks with Ravager.

Anyway, true, it's about builds. I made quite a nice spellcaster build that I find quite usefull, and very fun, to play. It's quite simple, it's a Cleric dualled to Mage at 15, loosing out on one level 8 mage spell for 6/6/6/6/4/2/1 Cleric spells. I use it in duo with a F/T/M, so they level up insanely fast, and bring a long Viconia in Watcher's Keep for her level 25 ring, giving you 3 level6 and 2 level7 clericspells at the cost of 1 level 8 mage spell. ^^

Gonna try to duo the Eclipse party and the whole Ascension mod with these guys. ^_^ Might throw in another char, but duo sounds more fun. Anyone soloed Ascension/Eclipse party?

[Crenshinibon]

Capped at twenty? What do you mean? It's good for sword and shield style characters as well as two handed characters, as you said, otherwise it's useless. Overall, a character with Improved Haste has a greater advantage that one with GWW. I find the Deathblow abilities a waste as I'll kill the creatures one way or another, without much trouble and Smite is only good for ranged characters as if you're melee, it doesn't make sense to have it as you want them next to you. Nineteen because it gives you a highest bonus of the Kensai class possible while still getting a descent duration of the spells and having enough slots per level.

[Thrifalas]

I meant exactly what I said - spells are capped at 20. For example, ADHD does 1d8 for each caster level. A 3rd level mage would deal 3d8 damage with it, a level 14 caster would deal 14d8 damage with it, but it doesn't matter if you're level 20, 24 or 31, your ADHD would still only deal 20d8 damage.

There are a few exceptations, some Power Words are capped at 21. Check out the Spell-50 mod from Weimar for a full description. Still, 90% of the spells ingame are capped at level 20, no doubt is Imp Haste one of them.

As for 19 being the best level for a Kensai, what do you base that on? A kensai gets +1 atk/hit each 3rd level, you don't get more HP after level 10 and atk/rnd stops increasing at 13. 9 or 13 is the usual dual-levels, and if we go higher it's obvious that 15, 18 and 21 are neat as well. If you go higher you can't dual to a mage though, since level 21 kensai lets you hit 22 as mage.

And yes, both deathblow and haste are kind of a waste, but so's all warrior abilities. MR and Harden is nice, but you don't need more than 2-3 of 'em.

[Crenshinibon]

I am nut sure if it is capped at 20 but either way, if you dual at 19 you' should have about 24 mage levels. As a Kensai/Mage you shouldn't even use damage spells. At level 19 (because even if you dual at 18 you'll still come out as a level 24 mage and you get the +6 to hit and damage bonus from the Kensai which increases applies to ALL weapons. The way I play that class though, I don't care about attacks per round as they are already set, whether you have the proficiencies or not. Either way, as a 22 Kensai or a 19, you can play that character in many ways.

[Klorox]

Improved Haste is way better. ;P

And a multiclassed F/M gets both.

[Thrifalas]

I am nut sure if it is capped at 20 but either way, if you dual at 19 you' should have about 24 mage levels. As a Kensai/Mage you shouldn't even use damage spells. At level 19 (because even if you dual at 18 you'll still come out as a level 24 mage and you get the +6 to hit and damage bonus from the Kensai which increases applies to ALL weapons. The way I play that class though, I don't care about attacks per round as they are already set, whether you have the proficiencies or not. Either way, as a 22 Kensai or a 19, you can play that character in many ways.

No, because a 22 kensai won't reach 23 mage levels and thus not regain his kensai abilties. And 19 is still pretty worthless, do you even gain anything at that level? Except for 3 hp?

And Klorox, does it matter? You can't get over 10 atk/rnd anyway, can you? Although I have to admit, 20 would be... so sexy. Hi Ravager.

[Gorlam]

personally I have been playing around with a berserker/cleric build. I am just trying to find a good level "sweet spot" to dual class over. Right now im working with a 20/30 berserker/cleric.

[Crenshinibon]

Well then again, it does make level 19 the perfect time to dual as you can't go at 21. So what? Three hit points, whoo. Sure, you could dual at 18 and get more experience with your mage class but I think there really is no point. Either way, you'll reach the cap, if you solo, before you pay your contact, not to mention by the time you're a level 19 Kensai you'll already have a good amount of scrolls to learn which give you a nice experience boost.

If you have Improved Haste, GWW is a waste. The attacks ARE capped at ten... because if they weren't the Priest of Lathender, even without dual classing would be able to kill just about anything through the sheer amount of attacks per round as Boon of Lathender stacks with Improved Haste and with itself and if you want to use bugs, it can be recharged without resting.

[Solusek]

Seriously guys, there's one thing I have been asking myself. How the hell are you able to get such armor values? Like -20/-24 pre-buffed and what not. How is that even possible? It really eludes me, even though I would consider myself quite an experienced BG player. Maybe it's just a matter of equipping style so to speak, as I tend to prefer offence over defence.

Anyway, could anybody please do me a favor and post the equipment, stats, and all other armor bonuses of his/her -20 or better AC character? I really need a detailed description on this please! Only legit builds/equipment please!(I do not consider 2 Rings of Gaxx legit, although I know it is possible to get them without cheating) Thx in advance!


So long,
Sol

[GawainBS]

This is just on top of my head, I'm missing quite a lot of things.
10 Base
-4 from 18 DEX
-9 from Full Plate
-1 Ring of Earth Elemental Control (The one you find in the D'Arnisse Keep.)
-2 Cloak of Protection
-2 Ring of Gaxx
-4 Shield of Balduran (Amongst others.)
-1 Helm of Balduran
-1 Yamato Wakizashi (Bought from the Innkeeper in Sarudush, IIRC.)

That should be -14 unbuffed. Add in:
-2 Protection from Evil
-3 Blur
-4 Improved Invisibility

This gives -21, and you can add Mirror Image & Stone Skin in the mix. These numbers probably aren't 100% correct, but it's the gist of the equipment/spells you need.
There's also a mod that lets you wear magical armour + "X of Protection" together, according to 2nd Ed. P & P rules, IIRC.

[Solusek]

This is just on top of my head, I'm missing quite a lot of things.
10 Base
-4 from 18 DEX
-9 from Full Plate
-1 Ring of Earth Elemental Control (The one you find in the D'Arnisse Keep.)
-2 Cloak of Protection
-2 Ring of Gaxx
-4 Shield of Balduran (Amongst others.)
-1 Helm of Balduran
-1 Yamato Wakizashi (Bought from the Innkeeper in Sarudush, IIRC.)

That should be -14 unbuffed. Add in:
-2 Protection from Evil
-3 Blur
-4 Improved Invisibility

This gives -21, and you can add Mirror Image & Stone Skin in the mix. These numbers probably aren't 100% correct, but it's the gist of the equipment/spells you need.
There's also a mod that lets you wear magical armour + "X of Protection" together, according to 2nd Ed. P & P rules, IIRC.

Of course, that's no problem. My tank characters usually have something around -12 to -15 AC unbuffed, too. But people in this thread were talking about -20(!) AC *unbuffed* or even -24. In my opinion that's just ridiculous and not achievable without cheating/cheesing/abusing/exploiting whatever. The mod could be an explanation though. But even then -20/-24 seems quite impossible to me.


So long,
Sol

[GawainBS]

Well, if we use a swashbuckler, we can get -19 unbuffed.

10 Base
-4 from 18 DEX
-9 from Black Dragon Scale Studded Leather
-1 Ring of Earth Elemental Control (The one you find in the D'Arnisse Keep.)
-2 Ring of Gaxx
-3 some buckler
-2 Twinkle (Drizzt's scimitar.)
-8 Class ability by lvl 40.

That's -19, unbuffed.

[Crenshinibon]

It's very easy to get to a high AC.

Here's one of my characters:

Swashbuckler/Cleric

-4 to -5 AC from the Swashbuckler part, -2 AC from Hell, subtracted from the starting AC.

Also, the character has 19 Dexterity (18 natural, +1 from Machine of Lum the Mad), when using Shuruppak's Plate which gives an additional +1 to Dexterity, the gain increases to -2 extra AC.

Equipped Items That Influence AC:

Yamato +4
Shuruppak's Plate
Ring of Gaxx
Cloak of the Sewers
Amulet of the Master Harper
Darksteel Shield +4
Vhalior's Helm

That should bring you to exactly -24.

If you decide to buff up with Aura of Flaming Death or Draw Upon Holy Might you can go up to -26.

Although, usually I wouldn't have this setup as I of course would use buffs so I'd most likely Runehammer and Flail of Ages in combination with the Improved Cloak of Protection +2 Improved Haste effect for a total of eight attacks per round and Aura of Flaming death for the AC boost.

I play with no mods. Only the latest patch.

[Celacena]

has nobody mentioned AC improved by naughtily high DEX scores?

things are not so good for the thief PC until UAI brings them up to fighter-standard armour. even when available, you'd want your tank to have the armour and the thief would probably get division 2 armour.

I have a 19 DEX before coming across the mad machine with the chance to raise it to 20. if I imported the character to ToB before the test that lowers DEX I would keep the enhancement. it is also possible that accepting the Evil path might be open to my chaotic PC. I'm not sure from an RPG aspect that my PC would be CE - it would be more appropriate to become CN from CG - the difference between CG and CE on one test when you KNOW you can resurrect the NPC is just too harsh and I would be tempted to nullify the result of that 'test' in SK.

I can only get AC 3 through armour (thief character)
when UAI is available, -2 armour would be available and red dragon scale plate (-1) would allow hide in shadows I think - or white dragon plate might. some dragon scale plate (certainly black) allows rangers to hide, so I assume that will be true of a thief with UAI. helm of balduran also becomes available. shield can get 7? points

until UAI the bucker +1 is best available, I assume BUT using AC granting weapon in off hand (I think there is a suitable sword - Yamoto?) would also give AC benefit with extra attacks.

ioun stone - 1 point

2 x Ring of Gaxx (haven't done so) or 1 x +2 and Earth control +1 = 3 or 4 points

cloak of the sewers gives 1 point but cloak of protection +2 becomes available and does not conflict with bracers of AC3.

not as good as having UAI, but not too shabby for a thief.

[Crenshinibon]

That is horrible Celacena! If I'm correct, without UAI you can still use the White Dragon scales found in level three of Watcher's Keep. Even if you can use fighter armor, why would you? You're a THIEF! I say screw heavy armor because you need to hide in shadows and you can't unequip it in mid combat. If you are caught in melee you can always equip a shield if you don't have one already. Besides, why would you be in melee anyway? Hit and run is what backstabbing types are all about. Well sure, you could use armor if you want to be a pure trapper but, yeah. Yes, the bonus from such a weapon is applied when used offhand, however, why would you? Thieves already have dreadful THAC0 and dual wielding makes it worse. I always used Sword of the Mask +4/+5 (as you can buy it early on) and Staff of the Ram +4/+6

Before UAI I used the Shadow Dragon scales (counts as leather), the Ring of Gaxx (or the Air Elemental ring sold at Ribald's) and Kiel's Buckler. Even at that point you're good for the game.