Hi everyone, I never got around to completing BG2: SOA and am going to give it a go now.
I have the TOB expansion but I have read in several places that there are certain area's in the expansion that once you visit them you cannot go back to the original game, so my question is this:
If I install SOA and TOB from the start and make a fresh game will I through lack of knowledge end up in a situation where I cannot continue the original storyline?
Here is a quote of what I mean from a walkthrough:
"Once you enter the Expansion areas (with the exception of Watcher's Keep) you cannot return to the original game areas."
Also I have downloaded BG2_Fixpack-v4.exe - will this alter the game to an extent that if I get stuck and need to consult a walkthrough - the fixpack will have changed the game beyond the vanilla walkthrough?
Many Thanks.
Question on new game
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Crenshinibon
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I do not know anything about the fixpack but you cannot access any of the ToB areas (with the exception of Watcher's Keep, as stated above) until you beat SoA. Also, if you haven't already, I suggest that you play through the original Baldur's Gate as well.
Basically, what they're saying is make sure you did everything you wanted to before entering the expansions as in any SoA quests and what not.
Basically, what they're saying is make sure you did everything you wanted to before entering the expansions as in any SoA quests and what not.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
Just to make sure there's no confusion, the Throne of Bhaal "expansion pacK" is kind of like a whole new game that starts at the end of Shadows of Amn. When you finish Shadows of Amn, the game will continue almost seamlessly in Throne of Bhaal. You will retain your old character, your old party members, and all of the items you were carrying, and things like the romances will continue. The new area called Watcher's Keep can be accessed in Shadows of Amn as well as Throne of Bhaal. If you go to Watcher's Keep in Shadows of Amn and don't finish all of the quests, you can return to Watcher's Keep when you play Throne of Bhaal.
Essentially, you need to finish all of the quests in Shadows of Amn (with the exception of Watcher's Keep) before you start playing Throne of Bhaal because you will not be able to go back to any of the other areas that were accessible in Shadows of Amn (not without using cheat codes, anyway). It would be very difficult (if not impossible) to make a mistake that would prevent you from being able to finish Shadows of Amn. ("Never say never.")
When you install Throne of Bhaal, some of the things in Shadows of Amn are modified. The experience cap is raised to 8 million, your characters can acquire High Level Abilities (because they can reach higher levels than before), and there are some new spells and a new Mage kit (the Wild Mage). A few items such as the Cloak of Mirroring were changed to make the game more balanced (the Cloak of Mirroring makes your character immune to most spells, but it no longer reflects the damage back upon the enemy caster). No changes were made to the plot in Shadows of Amn.
When you start the game, you will notice that there are two startup screens--one for Shadows of Amn and one for Throne of Bhaal. If you want to go directly to Throne of Bhaal, you can start a new game from scratch (or import a Final Save game from Shadows of Amn). You will start with a character who has 2.5 million experience points, and you will be given a Bag of Holding that contains a bunch of items such as +3 weapons, armor, arrows, bullets, a Ring of Invisibility, healing potions, etc., along with a few special items from Shadows of Amn such as the Flail of Ages +3. It's a lot less stuff than you would have had if you had played all the way through Shadows of Amn, but it's enough to get started. You'll have to solo the first encounter, but almost immediately after that, you will be able to summon all of the NPCs from Shadows of Amn (as well as a new NPC) to form your new party.
Throne of Bhaal is essentially a whole new adventure that takes up where Shadows of Amn left off. It's a very linear game with no sidequests besides Watcher's Keep. I strongly recommend that you finish Shadows of Amn before you go to Watcher's Keep, for several reasons. First of all, Watcher's Keep is a place where your party can gain huge amounts of treasure and millions of experience points. If you finish Watcher's Keep before you finish Shadows of Amn, you'll completely unbalance the game. Second of all, Throne of Bhaal needs a good sidequest to break up the linearity, and Watcher's Keep is perfect for that. And finally, the game detects your party's level and adds or subtracts monsters and traps accordingly to automatically adjust the level of difficulty. I prefer to fight all of the monsters and find all of the traps in Watcher's Keep, so I'd rather go there in Throne of Bhaal when my party is very high in level.
I think you'll get the hang of everything once you actually start the game.
The Baldurdash Fix Pack does not add any new quests to the game. It fixes bugs and resolves inconsistencies. A more advanced Fix Pack has been released by Gibberlings Three; it is called the G3 FixPack. It contains all of the material that appeared in the Baldurdash Fix Pack along with lots of new bug fixes and and minor corrections, ranging all the way from major bug fixes to minor cosmetic corrections that the vast majority of the human race would never notice in the first place.
There are many other mods that do add new quests and new characters. To the best of my knowledge, none of them will render Shadows of Amn unplayable if you make a mistake in one of the new quests.
There are also mods that are referred to as "Tweak Packs". Some of them add new items to the game, some of them make the game easier to play (for example, they might add several new Bags of Holding and raise the stack limit to make items easier to carry in your inventory), and some of them change the rules (for example, some of them allow Thieves to put three proficiency points in Two Weapon Style and other things like that). Some of them fix cosmetic issues or remove the experience cap or add new kits. You can do a search for more information in these forums, or you can start a new topic if it hasn't already been covered in a previous message thread. We would be happy to give you more advice.
Good luck!
Essentially, you need to finish all of the quests in Shadows of Amn (with the exception of Watcher's Keep) before you start playing Throne of Bhaal because you will not be able to go back to any of the other areas that were accessible in Shadows of Amn (not without using cheat codes, anyway). It would be very difficult (if not impossible) to make a mistake that would prevent you from being able to finish Shadows of Amn. ("Never say never.")
When you install Throne of Bhaal, some of the things in Shadows of Amn are modified. The experience cap is raised to 8 million, your characters can acquire High Level Abilities (because they can reach higher levels than before), and there are some new spells and a new Mage kit (the Wild Mage). A few items such as the Cloak of Mirroring were changed to make the game more balanced (the Cloak of Mirroring makes your character immune to most spells, but it no longer reflects the damage back upon the enemy caster). No changes were made to the plot in Shadows of Amn.
When you start the game, you will notice that there are two startup screens--one for Shadows of Amn and one for Throne of Bhaal. If you want to go directly to Throne of Bhaal, you can start a new game from scratch (or import a Final Save game from Shadows of Amn). You will start with a character who has 2.5 million experience points, and you will be given a Bag of Holding that contains a bunch of items such as +3 weapons, armor, arrows, bullets, a Ring of Invisibility, healing potions, etc., along with a few special items from Shadows of Amn such as the Flail of Ages +3. It's a lot less stuff than you would have had if you had played all the way through Shadows of Amn, but it's enough to get started. You'll have to solo the first encounter, but almost immediately after that, you will be able to summon all of the NPCs from Shadows of Amn (as well as a new NPC) to form your new party.
Throne of Bhaal is essentially a whole new adventure that takes up where Shadows of Amn left off. It's a very linear game with no sidequests besides Watcher's Keep. I strongly recommend that you finish Shadows of Amn before you go to Watcher's Keep, for several reasons. First of all, Watcher's Keep is a place where your party can gain huge amounts of treasure and millions of experience points. If you finish Watcher's Keep before you finish Shadows of Amn, you'll completely unbalance the game. Second of all, Throne of Bhaal needs a good sidequest to break up the linearity, and Watcher's Keep is perfect for that. And finally, the game detects your party's level and adds or subtracts monsters and traps accordingly to automatically adjust the level of difficulty. I prefer to fight all of the monsters and find all of the traps in Watcher's Keep, so I'd rather go there in Throne of Bhaal when my party is very high in level.
I think you'll get the hang of everything once you actually start the game.
The Baldurdash Fix Pack does not add any new quests to the game. It fixes bugs and resolves inconsistencies. A more advanced Fix Pack has been released by Gibberlings Three; it is called the G3 FixPack. It contains all of the material that appeared in the Baldurdash Fix Pack along with lots of new bug fixes and and minor corrections, ranging all the way from major bug fixes to minor cosmetic corrections that the vast majority of the human race would never notice in the first place.
There are many other mods that do add new quests and new characters. To the best of my knowledge, none of them will render Shadows of Amn unplayable if you make a mistake in one of the new quests.
There are also mods that are referred to as "Tweak Packs". Some of them add new items to the game, some of them make the game easier to play (for example, they might add several new Bags of Holding and raise the stack limit to make items easier to carry in your inventory), and some of them change the rules (for example, some of them allow Thieves to put three proficiency points in Two Weapon Style and other things like that). Some of them fix cosmetic issues or remove the experience cap or add new kits. You can do a search for more information in these forums, or you can start a new topic if it hasn't already been covered in a previous message thread. We would be happy to give you more advice.
Good luck!
I actually do have another question regarding party creation - NOT BEST PARTY though
I like to create more than one character at start up so I do the multiplayer trick but I dont want to lose romances or character interactions so my question is:
Who in your opinion should be included in a good/neutral party based solely on interaction throughout the game.
I'm aware one must be either Aerie or Jaheira for the romance (Not including Viconia as I'm going good/neutral) but from a non romance interaction who has the best lines to make the party and adventure more fulfilling?
The reason I like to make more than one character at creation is so I can have the class and stats I specifically want in my party and not have to put up with whatever the game supplies and most of the NPC's I can get dont seem to have great stats for their class, for example:
If I make a Mage I would make a Gnome so I can get 19 Int straight away but the mages you get ingame with the exception of the evil Edwin have 17 or 16 Int, even the Gnome Jan only has 16 Int and from what I've read this greatly reduces the amount of spells you can learn per level.
So I want to make some party members but include some ingame ones for the interaction, so can anyone suggest who to get?
Many thanks for reading though my ramblings.
I like to create more than one character at start up so I do the multiplayer trick but I dont want to lose romances or character interactions so my question is:
Who in your opinion should be included in a good/neutral party based solely on interaction throughout the game.
I'm aware one must be either Aerie or Jaheira for the romance (Not including Viconia as I'm going good/neutral) but from a non romance interaction who has the best lines to make the party and adventure more fulfilling?
The reason I like to make more than one character at creation is so I can have the class and stats I specifically want in my party and not have to put up with whatever the game supplies and most of the NPC's I can get dont seem to have great stats for their class, for example:
If I make a Mage I would make a Gnome so I can get 19 Int straight away but the mages you get ingame with the exception of the evil Edwin have 17 or 16 Int, even the Gnome Jan only has 16 Int and from what I've read this greatly reduces the amount of spells you can learn per level.
So I want to make some party members but include some ingame ones for the interaction, so can anyone suggest who to get?
Many thanks for reading though my ramblings.
Jan Jansen. He has the best lines (and the most lines) out of all the NPCs.Columbo wrote:Who in your opinion should be included in a good/neutral party based solely on interaction throughout the game.
I'm aware one must be either Aerie or Jaheira for the romance (Not including Viconia as I'm going good/neutral) but from a non romance interaction who has the best lines to make the party and adventure more fulfilling?
Also, at high level, he has incredible power if you know how to tap into it (which is true of most NPCs). For example, take a look in the recent message threads concerning thieves in battle and backstabbing.
Intelligence doesn't really make much difference. It doesn't affect the number of spells a character can cast, and even a character with Intelligence 9 can learn 9th level spells. Intelligence does affect the number of spells you can write in your spellbook, but if the limit gets in your way, just have your character drink a Potion of Genius and/or a Potion of Mind Focusing and scribe the spells while your character's Intelligence is raised temporarily.Columbo wrote:If I make a Mage I would make a Gnome so I can get 19 Int straight away but the mages you get ingame with the exception of the evil Edwin have 17 or 16 Int, even the Gnome Jan only has 16 Int and from what I've read this greatly reduces the amount of spells you can learn per level.
Firstly don't let the fact that Viconia starts out evil put you off, things can change.
Sixteen intelligence is perfectly adequate, you'll be able to get all the important spells in your book, there are an awful lot of useless spells in the game, and you can always erase a spell and replace it if you need to. Seventeen intelligence is more than enough, eighteen is a waste of an attribute point IMO, nineteen even more so. Intelligence doesn't affect how many spells you can memorise remember, unlike wisdom.
Sixteen intelligence is perfectly adequate, you'll be able to get all the important spells in your book, there are an awful lot of useless spells in the game, and you can always erase a spell and replace it if you need to. Seventeen intelligence is more than enough, eighteen is a waste of an attribute point IMO, nineteen even more so. Intelligence doesn't affect how many spells you can memorise remember, unlike wisdom.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
Jaheira's presence in your party opens up a lengthy subplot involving Harpers. The subplot will take place even if you don't romance her, but the romance adds more dialogue and makes things a little more interesting.
Personally, I think the romance with Aerie after you start Throne of Bhaal is a little more fun. Speaking of Aerie, she is the only NPC who will romance a gnome (without installing a mod). She doesn't think of herself as a true elf anymore, and in addition to being very fond of gnomes, she also identifies with them. (As a Cleric, she serves a gnomish god.)
Since you want a lot of interaction in your party, maybe you should add more NPCs to your party instead of playing multiple characters of your own. I suggest the following party:
PC (any class you prefer, but I suggest a Berserker, a Fighter/Mage, or a Specialist Mage--perhaps a Wild Mage if you enjoy unpredictability and greater risk)
Aerie (romance)
Minsc
Haer'Dalis
Jan Jansen
Jaheira
Jaheira is kind of grouchy (that's what makes her an interesting character, right?) but the rest of them are a lot of fun. You'll get plenty of interaction.
I won't try to prove that they are the most powerful party; but I assure you that you have nothing to lose if you play a full six-member party. If you can figure out how to use their skills to the max, the party I suggested is actually pretty awesome. For example, at high levels Aerie can put Quest Level Cleric spells in her spell triggers, Jan can set lots of Spike Traps (plus he's a Mage who can cast lots of powerful spells), and Jaheira is an awesome "tank" with Ironskins, buffing spells, and High Level Abilities from the Warrior pool. At lower levels, Minsc (your strongest melee warrior) will protect the party and probably make most of the kills, but he won't be the most powerful party member at higher levels. Haer'Dalis might be the weakest link because Bards are difficult to play, but he always has something to offer. For example, he can inflict more damage in one round than anyone else at low levels if you combine Melf's Minute Meteors with Offensive Spin, and even if you keep him out of combat at mid levels, he can cast useful spells such as one of my favorite combinations, Greater Malison-Glitterdust-Emotion as well as spells such as Slow. If you buff him up, he's very tough in short bursts (Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Improved Haste, Tenser's Transformation). I picture Haer'Dalis as a Blade (naturally), but he also makes a good Swashbuckler or Kensai (he's the closest thing to a "sword saint" in the game), and sometimes I change his class with an editor.
I don't know how you'll handle the rescue of Imoen with a full party of six since you won't have room for her in your party. But there are ways around it, and it's not a big problem.
Personally, I think the romance with Aerie after you start Throne of Bhaal is a little more fun. Speaking of Aerie, she is the only NPC who will romance a gnome (without installing a mod). She doesn't think of herself as a true elf anymore, and in addition to being very fond of gnomes, she also identifies with them. (As a Cleric, she serves a gnomish god.)
Since you want a lot of interaction in your party, maybe you should add more NPCs to your party instead of playing multiple characters of your own. I suggest the following party:
PC (any class you prefer, but I suggest a Berserker, a Fighter/Mage, or a Specialist Mage--perhaps a Wild Mage if you enjoy unpredictability and greater risk)
Aerie (romance)
Minsc
Haer'Dalis
Jan Jansen
Jaheira
Jaheira is kind of grouchy (that's what makes her an interesting character, right?) but the rest of them are a lot of fun. You'll get plenty of interaction.
I won't try to prove that they are the most powerful party; but I assure you that you have nothing to lose if you play a full six-member party. If you can figure out how to use their skills to the max, the party I suggested is actually pretty awesome. For example, at high levels Aerie can put Quest Level Cleric spells in her spell triggers, Jan can set lots of Spike Traps (plus he's a Mage who can cast lots of powerful spells), and Jaheira is an awesome "tank" with Ironskins, buffing spells, and High Level Abilities from the Warrior pool. At lower levels, Minsc (your strongest melee warrior) will protect the party and probably make most of the kills, but he won't be the most powerful party member at higher levels. Haer'Dalis might be the weakest link because Bards are difficult to play, but he always has something to offer. For example, he can inflict more damage in one round than anyone else at low levels if you combine Melf's Minute Meteors with Offensive Spin, and even if you keep him out of combat at mid levels, he can cast useful spells such as one of my favorite combinations, Greater Malison-Glitterdust-Emotion as well as spells such as Slow. If you buff him up, he's very tough in short bursts (Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Improved Haste, Tenser's Transformation). I picture Haer'Dalis as a Blade (naturally), but he also makes a good Swashbuckler or Kensai (he's the closest thing to a "sword saint" in the game), and sometimes I change his class with an editor.
I don't know how you'll handle the rescue of Imoen with a full party of six since you won't have room for her in your party. But there are ways around it, and it's not a big problem.
To profit the most from the storyline, I would advice to take the first four characters you come across with you. That means Imoen/Yoshimo, Jaheira and Minsc. Whatever character you add next depends completely on your own taste.
Personally, I'm a big fan of Haer'Dalis. Besides being a witty, smart and fun character, he can be a very useful addition to any party, as Von has already mentioned. Unlike Von, however, I really don't like Jan Jansen. I fear I'm one of the few on this board who finds him boring, a bit too longwinded for comfort, and most of all cumbersome. The gnome is widely regarded as one of the funniest NPC's around, though, so you probably need to try him out yourself to find out on which side of fence you stand.
My own roleplaying party would thus consists of Imoen/Yoshimo, Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie and Haer'Dalis. It's a strong, versatile, fun and banter heavy party. Should you play with a Gnome, however, I would forget about either Jaheira or Dalis (because of your romance with Aerie, who is then your only lover possibility) and perhaps add Jan.
Remember, whichever you choose, you can’t go wrong. The game is great with practically any party composition thinkable.
Have fun!
Personally, I'm a big fan of Haer'Dalis. Besides being a witty, smart and fun character, he can be a very useful addition to any party, as Von has already mentioned. Unlike Von, however, I really don't like Jan Jansen. I fear I'm one of the few on this board who finds him boring, a bit too longwinded for comfort, and most of all cumbersome. The gnome is widely regarded as one of the funniest NPC's around, though, so you probably need to try him out yourself to find out on which side of fence you stand.
My own roleplaying party would thus consists of Imoen/Yoshimo, Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie and Haer'Dalis. It's a strong, versatile, fun and banter heavy party. Should you play with a Gnome, however, I would forget about either Jaheira or Dalis (because of your romance with Aerie, who is then your only lover possibility) and perhaps add Jan.
Remember, whichever you choose, you can’t go wrong. The game is great with practically any party composition thinkable.
Have fun!
"Sometimes Dreams are wiser than waking"
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Crenshinibon
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It's all a matter of opinion really. Every individual views characters in a different light. While Von says that Minsc would be the strongest fighter within that party, for me, Haer' Dalis is much more of a fighter than Minsc and more of a tank than Jahiera (I never really used her as a tank so maybe that's why). Even without buffs, Haer' Dalis would be able to take and do more damage than almost all other characters within the party, just by using his special abilities... except for Jan and Aerie that is. Mages tend to be very powerful if you know how to use them and thieves, they are very fun to play and are also strong if you know how to use them. Every single character has something to offer whether it is powerful magic or a unique set of skills and even their personality. You can always look through the class threads in this forum by using the search feature where some of the members describe good tactics with a certain class and you could get an insight on how we use those characters and perhaps find your own style. Like Sytze said, you can't go wrong with any combination and enjoy this game.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
Thank you all.
Certainly given me something to think about.
I've been reading up a bit more and I keep reading that a good party has some combination of 3 Tanks and 3 Mages.
So far I have settled on from your posts:
Definites:
Aerie, Minsc, Haer'Dalis & Jaheira and myself (To fill in a role I'm lacking)
Then I think I will choose ONE of either Jan or Imoen as they are both Mage/Thieves. (Probably Imoen to keep Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen together from BG1)
With those I will have if I go Fighter/Mage:
Tanks, Myself, Minsc, Jaheira & Haer'Dalis
Mages, Myself, Aerie & Jan/Imoen
2 Healers, Jaheira & Aerie
A Bard
Somehow though I would like to get a Paladin in their somewhere, either Keldorn or myself as I keep reading about how great Carsomyr is.
If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?
As I like the idea of keeping the 3 BG1 characters together then that means dropping either Aerie or Haer'Dalis and Haer'Dalis looks like the scapegoat as I need the spells and heals from Aerie.
So confusing Funny how the part I enjoy most is setting up my party on paper before I even set foot in the game :laugh:
Certainly given me something to think about.
I've been reading up a bit more and I keep reading that a good party has some combination of 3 Tanks and 3 Mages.
So far I have settled on from your posts:
Definites:
Aerie, Minsc, Haer'Dalis & Jaheira and myself (To fill in a role I'm lacking)
Then I think I will choose ONE of either Jan or Imoen as they are both Mage/Thieves. (Probably Imoen to keep Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen together from BG1)
With those I will have if I go Fighter/Mage:
Tanks, Myself, Minsc, Jaheira & Haer'Dalis
Mages, Myself, Aerie & Jan/Imoen
2 Healers, Jaheira & Aerie
A Bard
Somehow though I would like to get a Paladin in their somewhere, either Keldorn or myself as I keep reading about how great Carsomyr is.
If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?
As I like the idea of keeping the 3 BG1 characters together then that means dropping either Aerie or Haer'Dalis and Haer'Dalis looks like the scapegoat as I need the spells and heals from Aerie.
So confusing
Funny how the part I enjoy most is setting up my party on paper before I even set foot in the game :laugh:-
fable
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Consider a kensai/mage, dualed at level 9. You can work up an astonishingly powerful killing machine with great defenses, or just hang back and shoot spells at your team and the enemies.With those I will have if I go Fighter/Mage...
Haer'dalis. He's really not much of a tank, even in ToB.If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Three mages, just like three fighters, really aren't that necessary. I usually follow this composition: two fighters, two mages, one thief, and one cleric or druid.
If I play the game, I usually play as an Archer/Thief (F/T, really) with Jah, Minsc, Imoen, Kelsey (sorcerer) and whatever NPC I feel like taking along, which is usually Dalis. That's a very balanced party, in my opinion.
Should you decide to go with a Paladin, you've covered all the basics as well. You've got two, even three mages (Imoen, Aerie and Dalis), four fighters if managed correctly, one cleric, one druid and one thief. You might want to bring Yoshimo along until Imoen rejoins your party so you're not missing out on the skills offered by the thieving department for too long.
Good luck!
If I play the game, I usually play as an Archer/Thief (F/T, really) with Jah, Minsc, Imoen, Kelsey (sorcerer) and whatever NPC I feel like taking along, which is usually Dalis. That's a very balanced party, in my opinion.
Should you decide to go with a Paladin, you've covered all the basics as well. You've got two, even three mages (Imoen, Aerie and Dalis), four fighters if managed correctly, one cleric, one druid and one thief. You might want to bring Yoshimo along until Imoen rejoins your party so you're not missing out on the skills offered by the thieving department for too long.
Good luck!
"Sometimes Dreams are wiser than waking"
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Crenshinibon
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It's not necessary to have one of each class as the game is playable with any combination of characters.
The character's strength and weaknesses depend on how the individual plays them so towards the end I found Haer' Dalis doing about eight to ten attacks per round with -24 AC and around 300 hit points... not to mention Stoneskin.
The level at witch you dual should depend on what you want your character to focus in. I personally dual my Kensai to a mage at level nineteen and still find a good balance between the two classes. You are good in melee... the best out of all possible combinations if you use buffs and your spells are still powerful and if the spell strength is indeed capped at level 20, then you have nothing to worry about as in that case all a level 31 mage would have over you is more spells per day. Also, I often let my mages and priests tank as they have ways of avoiding damage or reducing it greatly while at the same time keeping an enemy's attention upon them.
As for Imoen filling the thief role, I feel that she is somewhat lacking there and that Jan or Yoshimo may be a better choice.
The character's strength and weaknesses depend on how the individual plays them so towards the end I found Haer' Dalis doing about eight to ten attacks per round with -24 AC and around 300 hit points... not to mention Stoneskin.
The level at witch you dual should depend on what you want your character to focus in. I personally dual my Kensai to a mage at level nineteen and still find a good balance between the two classes. You are good in melee... the best out of all possible combinations if you use buffs and your spells are still powerful and if the spell strength is indeed capped at level 20, then you have nothing to worry about as in that case all a level 31 mage would have over you is more spells per day. Also, I often let my mages and priests tank as they have ways of avoiding damage or reducing it greatly while at the same time keeping an enemy's attention upon them.
As for Imoen filling the thief role, I feel that she is somewhat lacking there and that Jan or Yoshimo may be a better choice.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
Just to clarify what I said (I admit it wasn't clear), I meant that Minsc would be the strongest melee warrior in the party when all of them are low in level. He is not the strongest melee warrior when all of them are high in level (Haer'Dalis and Jaheira can kick his butt if they're played skillfully), and Minsc is certainly not the most powerful member in the party overall. "Even" Aerie could kick his butt (not in melee, but with spells) if they both had 8 million experience points, and she's just a little girl elf.Crenshinibon wrote:It's all a matter of opinion really. Every individual views characters in a different light. While Von says that Minsc would be the strongest fighter within that party...
But if you want to fight, say, an army of fire giants, it's nice to have a warrior like Minsc on your side, since he never runs out of butt-kicking melee attacks. Make up your mind.Crenshinibon wrote:for me, Haer' Dalis is much more of a fighter than Minsc and more of a tank than Jahiera (I never really used her as a tank so maybe that's why). Even without buffs, Haer' Dalis would be able to take and do more damage than almost all other characters within the party, just by using his special abilities... except for Jan and Aerie that is...
You don't NEED to have three tanks and three Mages. I thought your point in asking us for advice was to pick a party that has the best dialogue, not the "best" party?Columbo wrote:I've been reading up a bit more and I keep reading that a good party has some combination of 3 Tanks and 3 Mages...
Somehow though I would like to get a Paladin in their somewhere, either Keldorn or myself as I keep reading about how great Carsomyr is.
If I make myself a Paly then I lose a Mage spot if I get Keldorn then who do I drop?
If you have one fighter, one cleric, one thief, and one mage, then you have all of your bases covered, and the rest is just power-gaming.Anyway, if you want Keldorn in your party, he's not a bad choice at all, but I wouldn't make him a party member just for the chance to use Carsomyr. It's a great weapon indeed, but I can live without it. If you had to remove someone else to make room for Keldorn, I'd pick Jaheira. But then you'd lose the Harper subplot. See the tradeoff? You have to decide whether Carsomyr (or something else about Keldorn) is worth the trade.
You don't have to make your main character a Fighter/Mage, either. If you want a Paladin in your party, an Inquisitor or Cavalier makes a great main character in this particular game, since it's made with an obvious bias for righteous heroes. The game does everything it can to make you feel good about yourself if you play such a character.
I like Imoen, and I like the idea of preserving the continuity of BG1 and BG2. I have a great deal of trouble not keeping Imoen in my party no matter who else is in it. She plays a critical role in the story, and I like to give her a chance to shine.Columbo wrote:I think I will choose ONE of either Jan or Imoen as they are both Mage/Thieves. (Probably Imoen to keep Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen together from BG1)...
I like the idea of keeping the 3 BG1 characters together...
On the other hand, she doesn't have much dialogue. I've heard rumors that originally, she was supposed to die in Spellhold, so the game designers did not write any dialogue for her for the second half of Shadows of Amn. She's practically mute. She does have many conservations with the other NPCs in Throne of Bhaal, and some of them are very funny, but due to a bug, her dialogues don't appear unless you install a bug fix (the scripts can't find her in your party because her name is misspelled "Imeon" or something like that, which goes to show why we need fix packs). So again, she's mute. Poor Imoen.
It's just one of those decisions you have to make: do you want Imoen in your party, or would you rather have a character who has even better dialogue? Personally, if I had to choose between Imoen and Jan (a strange choice, in my opinion), I would choose Jan. Even though I like Imoen. Quite simply, he has better dialogue, whether we're talking about the comments he makes in certain situations (like the time you meet a dead god) or whether we're talking about the conversations he has with other NPCs. If you don't get a chance to see what he says to Keldorn, Viconia, and Anomen, then ask us for transcripts--you don't want to miss any of his dialogues.
Those "rumors" are most probably true, considering her lack of dialogue even though she's the most important NPC in the whole game, your in-game Dreams, and the books that were written about it.
And mate, dont bother too much about what other says are great lineups or that Carsomyr would be so usefull. I practically drooled over that weapon the first time I found it, nowadays I hardly ever uses it. It's bugged in many ways and I'd say that there are lots of better weapons, including SotM, Ravager and Unyielding.
The vanilla game can be soloed by any class. No matter what lineup you have, it's most likely not gonna be a problem. Hell, I managed my first runthough with 5 mages even though I knew practically nothing about spells. (MM spamming, gogo!)
And mate, dont bother too much about what other says are great lineups or that Carsomyr would be so usefull. I practically drooled over that weapon the first time I found it, nowadays I hardly ever uses it. It's bugged in many ways and I'd say that there are lots of better weapons, including SotM, Ravager and Unyielding.
The vanilla game can be soloed by any class. No matter what lineup you have, it's most likely not gonna be a problem. Hell, I managed my first runthough with 5 mages even though I knew practically nothing about spells. (MM spamming, gogo!)
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Crenshinibon
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Don't forget the Staff of the Ram. Also, I thought I'd mention that thieves, at higher levels get an ability called Use Any Item which amazingly enough lets you use any item (although you do have to meet the statistic requirements so no full plate if you have three strength), so what I'm getting at here is that if you REALLY can't live with Carsomyr you can always give it to a high level thief (your character should you decide to take that class, Jan or Yoshimo).
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”
Thanks again everyone.
Loads of great tips here and a lot of decisions to make but the fun factor overrides everything else so getting entertaining party members is foremost, so with that said I've decided on:
Myself - Paladin - probably Cavalier
Jaheira
Minsc
Jan
Aerie
& Haer'dalis
From my reckoning that covers all the basis pretty well with 4 fighters, 3 Healers, 3 Mages and a thief plus the extra abilities the mixture of classes have.
Unfortunately that means Imoen gets dropped but I can live with that I think unless I find out she's critical story wise later.
Again I thank you all for your insights and help.
Loads of great tips here and a lot of decisions to make but the fun factor overrides everything else so getting entertaining party members is foremost, so with that said I've decided on:
Myself - Paladin - probably Cavalier
Jaheira
Minsc
Jan
Aerie
& Haer'dalis
From my reckoning that covers all the basis pretty well with 4 fighters, 3 Healers, 3 Mages and a thief plus the extra abilities the mixture of classes have.
Unfortunately that means Imoen gets dropped but I can live with that I think unless I find out she's critical story wise later.
Again I thank you all for your insights and help.
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Crenshinibon
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- Contact:
No characters are actually critical to the story. They're nice to have for the storyline value but you can just as easily solo the game although you might want to try that way later in your BG career.
“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”