There's no crossbow on the pile of clothes and has never been. Unless you play some unofficial mod ofcourse.Grab the Crossbow from the pile of clothes in the changing room, then return to Velvet at the Vesuvius club and tell her the good news.
A mistake in Walkthrough
A mistake in Walkthrough
Walkthrough states:
Well I see no need to remove it from your mod, that's not the case. But it would be nice to fix walkthrough so that the new players who play Bloodlines wouldn't try to find a non-existing crossbow because walkthrough says so. Like I didThis is correct and to make matters easy, I will remove this crossbow in my next patch so it should definately be removed from the walkthrough.
Well, when I became aware of the issue by this thread I re-evaluated the crossbow placement and I think it isn't needed there anymore. It stems from a time where I could only replace one item with another and a lot of different things were not like they are today. Right now you can get a crossbow from several enemies even before killing Chastity so placing one near her makes little sense.Windom wrote:Well I see no need to remove it from your mod, that's not the case. But it would be nice to fix walkthrough so that the new players who play Bloodlines wouldn't try to find a non-existing crossbow because walkthrough says so. Like I did
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Jhereg
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I think it's rapidly getting to (if it has not long since passed) the place where two walk-throughs are in order. Or at the very least a heavily annotated version of the current one. Perhaps revise the current walk-through back to it's original V1.2 official version for purists and newbies, with annotations to indicate at which points things are different in the latest mod. I don't think it would be reasonable to try to track changes by mod - too many. I have a sneaking suspicion that those who play the mods are heat-seakers, and have a tendency to mod their games to the latest of WESP's efforts, so committing the effort to documenting the intermediate stages might well be unnecessary. In any case, if for some reason someone did need to know about an intermediate stage, WESP has been careful to document every new mod on this forum so finding the differences is merely a matter of research.
And WESP, I think what you've been doing has long since passed the point where you can fairly call what you do 'patching'. You've been modding for awhile now. You're no longer just fixing broken things that are already there (a patch), but actively changing the content of the game (a mod).
Not a complaint, mind you - your efforts are much appreciated. Just an observation
And WESP, I think what you've been doing has long since passed the point where you can fairly call what you do 'patching'. You've been modding for awhile now. You're no longer just fixing broken things that are already there (a patch), but actively changing the content of the game (a mod).
Not a complaint, mind you - your efforts are much appreciated. Just an observation
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
All right it's very nice but that's not the case. I believe your mod is really good and so on, but it has nothing to do with this incorrect walkthrough problem. I'm sorry for my poor English, probably I just didn't make myself clear.Well, when I became aware of the issue by this thread I re-evaluated the crossbow placement and I think it isn't needed there anymore. It stems from a time where I could only replace one item with another and a lot of different things were not like they are today. Right now you can get a crossbow from several enemies even before killing Chastity so placing one near her makes little sense.
So, is there any way to fix the walkthrough? Or should we email to GameBanshee or so?
I wrote the walkthrough based on the release version of the game, without any of the unofficial patches installed. I don't think an unofficial patch even existed back then and I'm not even sure if Troika released the v1.2 patch before I was finished. It's been a long time and I've written a lot of walkthroughs since then, so it's tough to say for sure. It's possible that the walkthrough is incorrect about the crossbow placement, but it seems weird to me that I would have wrote that if it wasn't ever there.
I agree that having two walkthroughs (or one that addresses both official and unofficial versions) would be optimal, but I currently have a stack of recent games that also need walkthroughs. It'll be a very long time before I'll be able to make another serious commitment to Bloodlines. If anyone else wants to tackle the project in the meantime, let me know.
I agree that having two walkthroughs (or one that addresses both official and unofficial versions) would be optimal, but I currently have a stack of recent games that also need walkthroughs. It'll be a very long time before I'll be able to make another serious commitment to Bloodlines. If anyone else wants to tackle the project in the meantime, let me know.
This is a matter of opinion on how you understand the term 'patch'. I know of a lot of patches that change things like those I did and Troika used to do similar stuff themselves. But I'm quite aware now of people seeing this differently and therefore all my recent releases include a "basic" patch where all changes like e.g. the crossbow have been removed. From the next version on I even intend to make this "basic" version the default as to make it easier for people new to the game to use a walkthrough like this one here. The current "full" patch will then be an optional "plus" install for people looking for a more finished experienceJhereg wrote: And WESP, I think what you've been doing has long since passed the point where you can fairly call what you do 'patching'.
!I think it would be enough to add the differences in brackets to the current walkthrough because these are not as much as people believeBuckGB wrote:It'll be a very long time before I'll be able to make another serious commitment to Bloodlines. If anyone else wants to tackle the project in the meantime, let me know.
. As I know about them best, I could PM you the exact places. Okay?-
Jhereg
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Astonishment fills me
I'm a little amazed to find that Buck still writes the walkthroughs himself. Now there's dedication for you.
In any case, while WESP5 is obviously the best placed to specify precisely what has changed and where in his work, a comprehensive walkthrough would doubtlessly be best handled by an 'editorial team', as it were. Have a designated information compiler and perhaps a designated writer (if they are not the same person), and a group of people exploring different parts of the game thoroughly.
I've heard of (and met) people who actually assemble character optimization spreadsheets, reverse engineer dicing algorithms, and keep meticulous notes about precisely where they've been, what they've seen, and so forth.
I am not one of those people. I've been playing for a couple of years now, and still stumble across things that I've never seen before. My last time through, during the blood-hunt, I found two vampires and a human in Santa Monica that, until now, I didn't even know were there (vanilla 1.2). Obviously, I'm not well suited to be a part of such a team.
However, if a couple of such meticulous note-takers were to assemble their notes, a compiler were to organise and annotate them, and a writer then assemble them into a walkthrough, the ultimate result would likely be a more comprehensive walkthrough all around.
Ultimately, of course, Buck or his designate would have to proof the result to ensure that it met the necessary criteria and language restrictions (profanity and so forth), but I know from experience that it takes a heck of a lot less time to proof-read a document than it does to write it.
P.S. I mention this here, because typically such a job would be handled by the original development team at some point if it became obviously lucrative to do so. This option, regrettably, is not available for VTMB because that group no longer exists, so somebody else has to handle it.
I'm a little amazed to find that Buck still writes the walkthroughs himself. Now there's dedication for you.
In any case, while WESP5 is obviously the best placed to specify precisely what has changed and where in his work, a comprehensive walkthrough would doubtlessly be best handled by an 'editorial team', as it were. Have a designated information compiler and perhaps a designated writer (if they are not the same person), and a group of people exploring different parts of the game thoroughly.
I've heard of (and met) people who actually assemble character optimization spreadsheets, reverse engineer dicing algorithms, and keep meticulous notes about precisely where they've been, what they've seen, and so forth.
I am not one of those people. I've been playing for a couple of years now, and still stumble across things that I've never seen before. My last time through, during the blood-hunt, I found two vampires and a human in Santa Monica that, until now, I didn't even know were there (vanilla 1.2). Obviously, I'm not well suited to be a part of such a team.
However, if a couple of such meticulous note-takers were to assemble their notes, a compiler were to organise and annotate them, and a writer then assemble them into a walkthrough, the ultimate result would likely be a more comprehensive walkthrough all around.
Ultimately, of course, Buck or his designate would have to proof the result to ensure that it met the necessary criteria and language restrictions (profanity and so forth), but I know from experience that it takes a heck of a lot less time to proof-read a document than it does to write it.
P.S. I mention this here, because typically such a job would be handled by the original development team at some point if it became obviously lucrative to do so. This option, regrettably, is not available for VTMB because that group no longer exists, so somebody else has to handle it.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
I don't think a completely new walkthrough is necessary and just to prevent any misunderstanding, I never would be able to do one. I could only point out the places where the unofficial patch changed something in the walktrough.Jhereg wrote: In any case, while WESP5 is obviously the best placed to specify precisely what has changed and where in his work, a comprehensive walkthrough would doubtlessly be best handled by an 'editorial team', as it were.
I apologize for not posting another reply to this thread sooner, guys. The last month has been crazy.
Wesp5, if you want to go through each quest walkthrough we have posted and add any of the major "unofficial" changes in brackets, that works for me. I haven't played the game with your patches installed myself (not by choice, but from lack of time), so I'd be taking your word for it that what you send me is accurate. The only changes I'd probably make would be for clarity or spelling/grammar. Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss this more.
Jhereg, I totally understand where you're coming from. Putting such a team together is not an easy task, though. I don't doubt that there are a lot of people that know the game inside and out, but assembling them and coordinating everything is quite difficult. On top of that, writing a walkthrough is a serious time commitment and even people interested in contributing can become burned out quickly. I've seen it happen many times over the years .
Wesp5, if you want to go through each quest walkthrough we have posted and add any of the major "unofficial" changes in brackets, that works for me. I haven't played the game with your patches installed myself (not by choice, but from lack of time), so I'd be taking your word for it that what you send me is accurate. The only changes I'd probably make would be for clarity or spelling/grammar. Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss this more.
Jhereg, I totally understand where you're coming from. Putting such a team together is not an easy task, though. I don't doubt that there are a lot of people that know the game inside and out, but assembling them and coordinating everything is quite difficult. On top of that, writing a walkthrough is a serious time commitment and even people interested in contributing can become burned out quickly. I've seen it happen many times over the years
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