Likely getting a new machine in the next couple of months: advice sought on potential

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:18 pm

OK, chances are very good that I'll be able to upgrade to a new computer in a couple of months, and I have been scoping out my options.
While I have been strongly drawn to Intel Macs, I have decided that for now I'm going to stick with a PC. Much as I like Macs.. they are pricey, and I also think it would make sense to hold until they've further perfected the technology.

So, that being the case, I'm looking to have one of our local shops build something for me. This is actually a package with options, rather than a set of components placed together... Please don't tell me I'd be further ahead to build it myself with X,Y or Z pieces... I have neither the expertise nor the time

Anyway, below is the link to the model I'm considering:
[url="http://www.a-power.com/product-3896-460-1"]AP System[/url]

I plan to select/upgrade in these areas:
*Intel 2 Duo E6550 2.33 hz 4 MB
*Memory - the 4 GB option
*Security - Kaspersky Internet Security OEM
*Additional Hard Drive - Seagate 500 SATALL 7200 RPM
*Graphic Card - eVGA GeForce 8800 GTS 768 MB

*Note: I'll be using my copy of XP Home for my OS.

Thoughts on this system appreciated.
Will it see me through at least two years (hopefully around 5 with upgrades)?
Is it overkill?
Quality of components?
Will I require the better power supply for the graphics card I'd like?
How difficult will it be to play older games on a system like this?

BlueSky · Post by **BlueSky** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:37 pm

Remember to get as much RAM as possible..

..when I built my "new" machine last spring...had to run out and buy more RAM to run KOTOR....and noticed a difference when playing Morrowind also.

Otherwise it looks like a good one.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:07 pm

Wow. Now, that is a heck a lot of horsepower, if you ask me.

I wonder if anyone noticed this but this system is missing a monitor. I wonder why?

From what I recall of reading adverts and checking websites of system manufacturers from the likes of Dell and others, they always include the monitor on every desktop they sell. Other than that, everything looks fine.

Ferrick · Post by **Ferrick** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:15 pm

Only Vista 64 will recognize 4 gigs of RAM or more. Not even Vista 32 will recognize 4 gigs of RAM. The most XP will recognize is 3.5 and I am not sure if that is limited to the PRO version or not so I say stick with 2 gigs since it is XP and you should do fine.

I checked out your link:

Processor Intel Pentium CORE 2 DUO E6850 3.0GHz 4MB 1333FSB

Excellent!

Memory OCZ Gold XTC OCZ2G8002GK 2X1G DDR2 800Mhz

I personally would go with Crucial or Kingston in DDR2 800MHz if Asus recommends those manufacturers for this board. Asus boards are quite well known to be picky about the memory utilized. This is not to say they are poor quality motherboards -- far from it! Asus makes great boards.

I belong to several tech forums and one person whom I highly respect and who has been working in the field of building and repairing PCs/laptops for years just posted how OCZ quality greatly fluctuates because they use a lot of third party manufactures. For what it is worth this is what he posted:

OCZ has only been in business a short time. They make very little of their own memory. The quality of OCZ memory swings more widely than most. OCZ is mainly a marketing company out of Singapore which bought out a small Canadian company then loaded up the market with good reviews... but a tremendous amoung of their memory now is third tier that changes from month to month. When they sell Value Ram and low density, the chips are not even the same from quarter to quarter. I recommend you avoid OCZ products at all times.
Get Kingston, Crucial, Infineon, Samsung, Toshiba, Corsair, Siemens... which all have several levels of quality and speed.

Mainboard ASUS P5K-Deluxe/WiFi-AP S775 P35 Chipset

Good choice. As I said, Asus makes good, solid motherboards. This model has slots for up to 8 gigs of memory, 6 USB slots)

Optical Drive Pioneer DVR-212D SATA Black 18x18 DVD-RW

Can't say because I don't know. If you ever really want to know the quality of an item I usually check out customer's reviews over at NewEgg.

Hard Drive Seagate 320GB SATA-II 16MB 7200rpm

Yes! Good selection, plenty of speed and it is a SATA II. And, DW, you'll have all that room for Morrowind Mods!

Video eVGA E-GEFORCE 8800GTS 320M DDR3 PCI-E

It is good you are going with the 8800GTS rather than the 8600 models and especially not the 8500 models; and it is DX10 ready.

Power Cooler Master RP-600-PCAR 600W eXtreme Power Supply

Make sure this is a good quality power supply. Just because it says 600w dowsn't mean it is going to give you 600w. Ask them what you will get on the 12v rails. The higher the better and the rails should be no less than a combined 30A.

FREE GAME! Might and Magic: Dark Messiah by Ubisoft (Limited Quantity)

If you don't want it can I have it?

DW, you certainly did you homework and you should really be very fine for at least 2 years. Because you are still using XP your current games should run as they always have. Just make sure the drivers for the 8800 card are good because Nvidia's early Forceware drivers for their 8800s were causing nightmares.

Kaspersky is a great internet security system but keep in mind that in the beginning it will continously have popups asking if you want to do so and so, or permit so and so. How do I know? I just built a new system and installed KAS 6.0 and it does this as it learns your preferences.

You are more than ready for Vista when the time comes. Nice system!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:31 pm

@Ferrick,
thanks for the detailed reply!

And cheers re: the RAM issue. I want to avoid Vista for as long as possible, so I can upgrade to more RAM at the time.

I had about 3 hours sleep last night, so my head is now spinning when I look at tech stuff, but to answer your question about M&M: Dark Messiah, assuming they are still giving out copies when I'm able to get this beast built (between 2 and 3 months from now), you may most certainly have it

@Des, I have a really nice little 17" inch Samsung LCD, and I see no reason at all to scrap it. It works great, and I'd rather spend the extra money on things like the Vid card.

@Bluesky,
lol! Well I hear I need to limit my RAM a bit, but that's OK, I can always up my RAM later on if need be. Hmm... I do plan to use this for MW.. and it will be really cool to be able to play mods like Wizard's Island and Mournhold Expanded... but that won't be until later. I have my little heart set on LOTR Online, for a change of pace...

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:22 am

dragon wench wrote: @Des, I have a really nice little 17" inch Samsung LCD, and I see no reason at all to scrap it. It works great, and I'd rather spend the extra money on things like the Vid card.

Kind of agree here but the fact that this manufacturer didn't include a monitor in their package does puzzle me. I've never come across a systems manufacturer that does this.

Magelord648 · Post by **Magelord648** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:58 am

With such an awesome system I would upgrade the monitor. At least 20 inches but I've heard of games companies using 30 inches. A few inches can get much more enjoyment out of a game and they're not to expensive if you can sell your old one to someone.

Ferrick · Post by **Ferrick** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:11 am

Another thing, DW. eVGA make very good video cards but keep in mind that they come overclocked which means they will run hotter. Make sure your case has good cooling air flow. Check out this link:

8800 gts 320 mb high temps? - PC Perspective Forums

Also, if and when you ever get another LCD monitor make sure the response time is 8ms or less for gaming. (your current Samsung is certainly a quality monitor; I don't blame you for keeping it)

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:46 am

Kind of agree here but the fact that this manufacturer didn't include a monitor in their package does puzzle me. I've never come across a systems manufacturer that does this.

Yes, I concur that it's unusual and I don't have any ready answers for you. The only thing I can think of is that this is a small, local shop that focuses on quality no-name custom builds, rather than say Dell where a comparable machine would cost me at least 3 Gs (I have checked at their site and run through their custom chart). Perhaps many people buying at A Power already own decent monitors, and those who do want one just add one in. I really don't know though, and to be honest it's not a concern to me... I have a monitor I really like, and if I want to replace it at some point, picking one up is a pretty easy process.

With such an awesome system I would upgrade the monitor. At least 20 inches but I've heard of games companies using 30 inches. A few inches can get much more enjoyment out of a game and they're not to expensive if you can sell your old one to someone.

My Samsung may be on the smaller size, but it really does not need to be upgraded, it's very good and I like it a lot. While I am getting a gaming computer here, I will also be using it for other things, and I just don't want or need a monitor that dominates my desk. Perhaps at some point I'll get something around 20 inches, but I'd never want anything bigger than that. Good Lord... at 30 inches I'd feel as though my emails were going to leap out of the screen and eat me

@Ferrick,
thanks for that, I had heard about these cards running on the hot side. This will be another question for my list when I go in there to look at having the thing built. I really appreciate information like this, because while I have some basic knowledge of PCs, stuff such as this I'm not necessarily going to be aware of. I tried googling the card, for example, and the only thing I really found was that it is screaming fast and high quality, I only knew about the heat factor from a friend who mentioned it.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:39 pm

On Monitors:

OK, as mentioned above. I do not plan to get a new monitor, certainly not initially. But, if that time comes I'd be looking at either:
A-Power Computer Online :: Displays :: LCD Monitors :: Samsung 19" 931BW BLK 1440x900 2000:1 2ms(GTG) DVI.. or,
A-Power Computer Online :: Displays :: LCD Monitors :: Samsung 20" 205BW BLK 1680x1050 700:1 6ms DVI Wide..

I actually need to replace my son's monitor and he'll be getting a gaming rig at some point as well, so any thoughts on either of the above would be helpful.

Onto the system itself, as I narrow down and refine my specs:

Processor - A friend of mine suggested I stick with the original default which is the - Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0 Ghz 4 MB 1333 FSB, since by the time I look at upgrading, I''ll likely need to replace the mainboard anyhow.
Thoughts on this?

Video Card - The same friend suggested the 640MB version of the video card rather than the 768MB, since the slight performance increase of the latter does not really justify the additional cost. And of course... cards tend to come down in price soon enough.
Again, thoughts?

Mainboard - Mainboard ASUS P5K-Deluxe/WiFi-AP S775 P35 Chipset

Hard Drive - Hard Drive Seagate 320GB SATA-II 16MB 7200rpm

Check into:
*Power supply
*Hot video card/case cooling and airflow
*Memory (try to get Crucial or Corsair)

Ferrick · Post by **Ferrick** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:49 pm

Glad to be of help, Dragon Wench.

1. Either of those Samsung monitors will do very well. The thing I like about the 20" is that you can get higher resolutions. I usually go to NewEgg.com and read the customer reviews.

2. I agree with your friend in that the default processor will do you very well, though my question to you is how often do you upgrade?

3. I fully agree with him about the price to performance ratio on the Video Card. How many software applications, let alone games, really utilize even 640mbs of memory? IMO, 768 is overkill. There are other companies that make good 8800 cards that are not overclocked.

4. Here is a great link about your motherboard. If you want, just skip to the conclusion. I think you will be pleased.
[H] Enthusiast - ASUS P5K Deluxe WiFi-AP Edition

5. Memory: Crucial, Kingston, Corsair, Gskill. Google your motherboard and find Asus' product page on your particular motherboard. They usually have listed on the left side recommended memory. Stick with that memory.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:43 pm

Ferrick wrote:Glad to be of help, Dragon Wench.

1. Either of those Samsung monitors will do very well. The thing I like about the 20" is that you can get higher resolutions. I usually go to NewEgg.com and read the customer reviews.

2. I agree with your friend in that the default processor will do you very well, though my question to you is how often do you upgrade?

3. I fully agree with him about the price to performance ratio on the Video Card. How many software applications, let alone games, really utilize even 640mbs of memory? IMO, 768 is overkill. There are other companies that make good 8800 cards that are not overclocked.

4. Here is a great link about your motherboard. If you want, just skip to the conclusion. I think you will be pleased.
[H] Enthusiast - ASUS P5K Deluxe WiFi-AP Edition

5. Memory: Crucial, Kingston, Corsair, Gskill. Google your motherboard and find Asus' product page on your particular motherboard. They usually have listed on the left side recommended memory. Stick with that memory.

I just took a look around Newegg, it looks like an extremely helpful site. I like sites that have user reviews of products, because while you always have the idiots and fanboys, chances are good that most customers/users are going to be far more honest than corporate reviews and descriptions. I also like CNET for that reason when looking at downloadable software.

I am not a compulsive upgrader, either in terms of brand new computers or individual components; I usually try to buy something that has a reasonably decent shelf life. Indeed, I only upgrade when I absolutely have to because I've become severely hampered in what I'm able to do. For example, my current computer is a six-year-old P3 from Dell. It has been really great, but using it is slowly becoming untenable. I'm even having trouble surfing some websites on occasion now. Or, I was playing with Microsoft Frontpage some time ago, and it kept freezing on me...

So, it's definitely time to upgrade. It has been irritating that I can't game in the way I'd sometimes like to, but now just basic functions are becoming difficult, so that's the signal to get a new machine as soon as circumstances permit.

In terms of this machine I want to have built, what I will need to do is phone them up and ask about exchanging some of the components they have listed for others, the RAM being a major point.
The overclocked video card I am fine with, as long as the case and fan(s) can accommodate the heat it creates. I'd like to hope that when they create packages like this they ensure the entire ensemble won't combust at some point... As I said, these guys are actually very reputable, and my techie friend gives them a big thumbs up. However, I have every intention of asking these questions, because I have also found that guys in tech stores often try to take advantage of you if they think you know nothing about computers. So being able to ask questions here beforehand is really great

And that motherboard looks wonderful!

Ferrick · Post by **Ferrick** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:26 pm

I can certainly identify, DW. I have been running my Pentium 3 build for 5+ years before finding the need to upgrade to a Socket 939 system last year and already I am old tech.

Like you I research carefully. I believe that is why my P3 is still going strong and my son and daughter can use it for school work without a hitch.

I am glad these guys are reputable.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:10 am

Help! I'm lost...

OK, today is the day where I finally get to order my new machine.. *does ecstatic happy dance*

There's only one problem though, not surprisingly, the shop I'm going to order from has changed their components in the last few months.. so now I'm confused again

Here is the link to their assembly page:
A-Power.com - Buy AP System - AP G-311 #3896 - Canada

I know I want XP Home as my OS, and probably Kaspersky as my AV, and to be honest, most of the standard components here look pretty good to my very untrained eye... But... uhm.... I'd really appreciate a little guidance from you guys ...

Note, I'm looking to assemble an upper, mid-range machine..

*Musing on an upgrade to the Seagate 500 GB SATA II 7200 RPM for my primary hard drive
*Thinking of getting the Seagate 320 GB 7200 RPM for a secondary drive
*I've no idea about the power supply.. so any input here would be greatly appreciated.. I don't want the thing to explode

Cheers in advance!

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:08 pm

Looks pretty darned good as is to me DW, if I was going to upgrade the power supply I'd probably go for the Corsair, although the Enermax Galaxy looks tempting, at an extra $217 it's a bit of a hike though. I'd be more likely to go for the Corsair and the Scythe Ninja Plus heatsink & fan. I'd also go for XP pro, and the Mcafee anti virus, I'm not familiar with Kaspersky and hate Norton. Ask about a firewall option too. Upgrading the Warranty would also be worth considering.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:57 pm

Thanks Galraen!
I did inquire about the firewall, and the Kaspersky suite includes one, so no worries there. Kaspersky is actually a very good AV, one of the best apparently, so that should be fine.

In terms of other upgrades, a techie friend of mine actually called just as I was browsing over the components, so he was able to help me put the system together. I ended up keeping the upgrades somewhat minimal, because with a lot of this stuff, it is better to wait, since prices fall and quality improves as time goes on. But I did order:

*additional RAM, they'll put in a total of 4 GB, and configure it to 3.5 GB, which is the maximum XP will hold
*Creative Sound Blaster X-fi Xtreme Audio card
*XP Pro OEM
*As mentioned, Kaspersky Internet Security Suite OEM
* First Year Express Warrenty

I am so very excited....

My old (six-year-old) Dell has been really excellent... but it's time to upgrade. I can't wait to try out games like: The Witcher, Mask of the Betrayer and LOTRO. I'm also looking forward to running a fully-modded/textured Morrowind, without my machine slowing to a total crawl... *very happy sigh*
It should be arriving next week sometime... I feel like a 5-year-old awaiting Christmas...

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:44 am

I'm not too familiar with Kaspersky Internet Security Suite OEM, but I would suggest F-Secure instead. Firewall, virus detection and removal etc. All in one packet. And F-Secure tend to be (IMO) one of those rare programs that find almost everything and can remove it as well. And automatic update is included, so you don't have to worry about your security not being updated.

Also, what I have noticed is that if for some reason the main security program can't find certain virus, you can always search with the name of the virus from F-Secures website, and there is definately a tool for removing.

So, I suggest F-Secure.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:18 am

Kipi wrote:I'm not too familiar with Kaspersky Internet Security Suite OEM, but I would suggest F-Secure instead. Firewall, virus detection and removal etc. All in one packet. And F-Secure tend to be (IMO) one of those rare programs that find almost everything and can remove it as well. And automatic update is included, so you don't have to worry about your security not being updated.

Also, what I have noticed is that if for some reason the main security program can't find certain virus, you can always search with the name of the virus from F-Secures website, and there is definately a tool for removing.

So, I suggest F-Secure.

Thanks Kipi!

Kaspersky is a lesser known product, but it comes very highly recommended, and quite a few tech-oriented people I know rate it as the best out there. So, I have no worries on this front. The Kaspersky suite comes with AV and spyware detection/removal, plus a firewall, so I think I'm pretty well covered where protection is concerned.
However, if for some reason I have problems with Kaspersky, I'll definitely keep F-Secure in mind.

Ulfang · Post by **Ulfang** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:24 am

Kaspersky are well recommended in the techie community I think. We use it at work and I work for an ISP. It's pretty well known ... and Russian

I use AVG at home as it's free and have a seperate firewall and have never had any problems. Just steer clear of Norton

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:41 am

Ulfang wrote:Kaspersky are well recommended in the techie community I think. We use it at work and I work for an ISP. It's pretty well known ... and Russian

I use AVG at home as it's free and have a seperate firewall and have never had any problems. Just steer clear of Norton

Yes, my impression is that it is a huge techie favourite. And I figure, since it is Russian, they'll have excellent experience dealing with some very nasty malware, keyloggers etc. since so much of it comes from there.

Right now I use Antivir, and before I used Avast, since they are also free, and I've had excellent luck with both.
But, since I'm getting a brand new system like this.. I'm feeling pretty protective, or maybe that should be "paranoid."

I detest Norton, so don't worry, I wouldn't go anywhere near them.