Are vamipres supposed to swim in the first place? (No... I meant, Hello everybody)

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:15 pm

Obviously, asking for help

Hello everybody! Really.
I like this site a lot, and I'm aware I've been away two years now... three... four? I feel guilty!

I just tried to log in to discover if the site still recognized me. Looks like it does!
Gamebanshee. Changed a lot since my last visit... now let's see how my avatar is doing... (hey it works!)
I keep coming back here just when I find some of my characters in dire need of help... Somebody should punish me for this attitude sooner or later... really!

Now, to the problem:

Subject: VTM Bloodlines, the warrens
Object: Why am I doing this?
Detail: my character is somewhere between "Reservoir 1" and "Reservoir 2", after killing a Tsimice (some sabbat surgeon psycopath probably named "Andrei"). Just wanna get out that damn place, but obviously missing something (namely "where the exit is supposed to be"?)

Any ideas, suggestions?

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:58 am

Welcome back!

Would probably be netter if you could describe where exactly you are and what your options are... there is a pretty long way as I remember between the sewers and eventually getting entirely out of there.

I'd assume it's where you need to de/re-activate the fan and make a mad rush swim to the end of the flooded tunnel though. So there you have it. A walkthrough might help as well.

Cheers!

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:38 am

Thank you for the reply! I am exactly where you assumed me to be, trying to do exactly what you said. I didn't realize that on this site an excellent walkthrough is available for the frustrated part-time vampires like me who can't figure things out by themselves... I found it, and I find it helpful. Thanks again for the suggestion!

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:36 am

Yeah... I can understand the feeling. I still remember my first time through and I refused to touch any walkthrough. For the first time, I was wondering where I was supposed to go, while most maps were quite straightforward until then.... so I continued trying.

I was playing a Toreador, and could make the swim easy enough with Celerity, but I tried again without, and couldn't make it... until the 7th try or so. One of the hardest part of the game...

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:58 pm

Finally out of there

Did Celerity actually helped? (Just curious, I never got to use it, playing a (female) Ventrue now and this is my first serious go through the game!)

I tried Bloodbuff at the very ending of my last attempt against the fan (the successful one out of 20, when I finally managed to get around that damn corner) but I could not say if it made any *real* difference... Well, psychologically maybe! I was so angry at that fan!!!

I almost can't believe I'm Out of there!:laugh: No more "fans", "reservois" or sad mutants uncapable to put on a good fight 3 against 1 for the sake of their own lives!!

Hey, the next level is good to look at... It seems like VTM:BL again, only more "underground" style... which is good... oh so good

EvilBelgian · Post by **EvilBelgian** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:55 pm

serjeLeBlade wrote:Did Celerity actually helped?

There's nothing to it with celerity

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:00 am

None of the other vampiric abilities except Celerity would help.

Blood buff boosts your physical stats, but sadly, even with a Strength of 10, you're still not strong enough to swim against the current the fan eventually produces. I do not think it makes a difference, frankly. Blood buff is only useful when calculating stealth/lockpick checks and damage dealt/reduced.

Celerity works like "Bullet time". The entire game environment slows down while your character retains the same movement ability/control as usual (except when falling, where you will fall according to the time of the environment, though you can still shoot and do other stuff at your normal ie. speed up rate). So this means that even with Celerity 1 on, you will get a some leeway to the strict timing required to pass this obstacle, making it easier to overcome than without.

If I was asked which clan is good for a starter player on the first run, I would say Toreador. The abilities given are all round enough to make it challenging and easier at the right points in the game. When you know what you're supposed to do, then repeat with the other clans to explore the different ways they can interact, and open up previously locked goodies.

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:26 pm

Hrmpf...me silly old-style rpg-gamer! If it was AD&D, boosting strength & dexterity = good swim check...

(But in this game we don't even get a "swimming" feat...

)

About which clan to choose, I tried all the clans (really!)(ok,just for the test and 1-2 hours of play mostly, Toreador for at least 10 hours) before choosing one. Toreador was the first I tried.
But the Ventrue lady looked too much like Trinity...& classic-vampire style, loving her
Oh well, going on without celerity I guess

Just hoping for no more unwanted swimming!

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:53 pm

Well.. truth be told, it might be a quirk in the RPG system, or just a flaw in the game design whereby the team made the mistake of not making a strength check, or just a limitation of the engine. As VotM is a storyteller system, I do believe that a human storyteller would allow you to clear the obstacle... not to mention that you would've anyway, if you provide a good enough description of your time precise actions.

Jhereg · Post by **Jhereg** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:19 am

Swim for it (Possible mild spoiler)

I just thought I'd pitch in my two cents here. serjeLeBlade mentioned a 'swimming feat'. As I read it, a vampire could swim the English Channel - at the bottom of the channel. Just how much more of a feat do you actually *need*? The ability to out-run a dolphin?

The rest is blacked out as a possible spoiler:

Spoiler

Anyhow, after a hiatus of a couple of months, I came back to VTMB, and when it came to swimming through the sump pipes, I took my own advice. Stand in front of the switch, suck back, reload, and go for it. What I started doing differently, though, was mouse-handling. I'd arrange my mouse so that, while I was looking at the pump control, my wrist was off to the right, and when I straightened my wrist, my character would turn to point in the direction that I wanted to run.

I started making the turn *easily*. Not just regularly and barely, but almost laughably easy. That trick gains me about 1/2 second of real time, and means I don't have to lift and replace my mouse twice to get oriented properly. Far more than enough, as it turns out, to make the task simple.

It would appear that the devil is always in the details.

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:43 pm

[QUOTE=Jhereg]I just thought I'd pitch in my two cents here. serjeLeBlade mentioned a 'swimming feat'. As I read it, a vampire could swim the English Channel - at the bottom of the channel. [/QUOTE]

He he.. good idea, walking on the bottom, too bad it doesn't work against the fan!

Your other suggestion is very good, I was seriously thinking about an attempt to redirect *all* movement functions to the mouse, (which would mean rigth-click for jumping, center-click to crouch etc...)
(I tried to use a gamepad, but the game doesn't seem to support it at all!)

prof. Moriarty · Post by **prof. Moriarty** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:40 pm

Usefull merit (as feats are called in WoD-games). Except one problem: Were-sharks. A REAL pain in the **** for any waterdwelling wyrmspawn. Tried it in the Tabletop version.

Deus Vult!
P

Jhereg · Post by **Jhereg** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:35 pm

prof. Moriarty wrote:Usefull merit (as feats are called in WoD-games). Except one problem: Were-sharks. A REAL pain in the **** for any waterdwelling wyrmspawn. Tried it in the Tabletop version.

Deus Vult!
P

Would that be, perchance, what Zygaena is? Tough enough on dry land with a .44. I'm pretty sure those don't work underwater, especially against a demon that could, presumably, swim as fast as a shark.

prof. Moriarty · Post by **prof. Moriarty** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:52 am

If you're referring to the demon in the fish market, then yes, I think so. It COULD be a real demon (they're... more diverse than anything else in WoD) but MY opinion is that it's a wereshark. I'm just grateful I didn't have to fight any were-bears.

Deus Vult!
P

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:16 pm

Hengeokai smell like fish.

I think the issue is that despite having supernatural strength, in the the case of Potence, so much more supernatural strength, you still get no bonus to overcoming the current generated by the fan, which is rather lacking somehow...

Jhereg · Post by **Jhereg** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:31 pm

shift244 wrote:I think the issue is that despite having supernatural strength, in the the case of Potence, so much more supernatural strength, you still get no bonus to overcoming the current generated by the fan, which is rather lacking somehow...

I don't think it's that lacking. I think it's rather realistic. Truth be told, it takes a monstrous amount of horsepower to overcome the friction of water. A much more tenable approach is streamlining.

You see this in Olympic swimmers. They aren't built like Schwartzenegger, because the extra bulk would slow them down more than the extra strength would speed them up. It's much more efficient, from a swimmer's perspective, to be able to move their arms and legs faster - F = M x A.

Which makes me wonder if Celerity would help more than Potence when swimming.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:06 pm

Celerity would not help against the current realistically, since it's basically vampire speed. The water would not move any faster and still be an obstacle that you'd need to break, being more resistant than air. It will help to beat the time when you're moving through air before reaching the water. Those extra 2 seconds would count for a lot to beat the time the fan takes to generate a strong enough current.

Strength, as I understand should. It enables you to push against the water better. Vampire's supernatural strength are the best in streamlining. I can be a Brujah with Ghandi's (post starvation strike) frame and still have 10 Strength!! While probably not the most effective, should be compensative in overcoming the current, each stroke being more powerful.

As it is, I think the game engine reverses the advantages between Celerity and Potence in the this case due to the way I believe that they work.

mcv · Post by **mcv** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:33 pm

shift244 wrote:Celerity would not help against the current realistically, since it's basically vampire speed. The water would not move any faster and still be an obstacle that you'd need to break, being more resistant than air. It will help to beat the time when you're moving through air before reaching the water. Those extra 2 seconds would count for a lot to beat the time the fan takes to generate a strong enough current.

Don't forget that Celerity is unnatural speed. You can accellerate and maneuver faster than physically possible. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to swim faster. The extra speed should help you move the water out of the way faster. Although I admit that extra strength should probably help a bit too.

By the way, I'm new, am currently playing VtM:B for the first time, and had no problem running and swimming fast enough to get to the reservoir before the pump starts. I did swim into the wrong reservoir first and had to try again, and it took me a while to figure out how to get the fan to stop, and I did sneak a peak at the walkthrough for that.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:36 pm

The strict timing required in that particular section will range from acceptably challenging to nigh impossible for different players depending on their real life personal dexterity.

Some would have more trouble than others.

Other problems like getting dizzy from the 3D screen view swinging around rapidly also do not help.

Note that Celerity DOES NOT affect anything other than the vampire using it. A thrown dagger or fired bullet would move at normal speed, not supernatural speed, once it leaves the throwing/firing vampire's "possession". That would mean that the water would be a pretty impenetrable barrier. This is open to debate however as one could argue that air would work in a similar manner, but I would think that water would provide sufficient resistance that Celerity would not work as well as Potence strength boost. Air resistance is just too little to affect Celerity speed boost.