Training Keldorn

[fable]

Since I received so much excellent advice in the Training Korgan thread, I thought I'd ask for suggestions, here. In a way, Keldorn is a tougher proposition. Not only does he have fewer proficiency points to award to weapons, but he's also got to periodically find pomade to keep his hair standing straight up. I'll deal with the latter, if you can provide some advice on the former. I've run Keldorn before, but I've never really put much thought into this.

In advance, thanks.

[galraen]

but he's also got to periodically find pomade to keep his hair standing straight up.

Er, what do you mean by that, maybe I'm up too late again, but I'm puzzled.

[fable]

Er, what do you mean by that, maybe I'm up too late again, but I'm puzzled.

His portrait really says it all.

[Crenshinibon]

Such stylish hair!

I'd give hip two handed weapon style and two handed sword for Carsomyr or bastard sword as well as sword and shield style for Purifier. I don't know though, I kind of see him as a tad too limited.

[fable]

Such stylish hair!

I'd give hip two handed weapon style and two handed sword for Carsomyr or bastard sword as well as sword and shield style for Purifier. I don't know though, I kind of see him as a tad too limited.

He is limited--what is it, ** per proficiency? But I don't think there are any other NPC fighters you can grab, unless you go with those who are multiclassed, and they have limitations, too, as I recall. Of course, wielding Carsomyr is a nice benefit.

[Crenshinibon]

I'd much rather use Valygar, especially if you're going into late game when you get their abilities. He is the only one who can actually use it, up until Haer' Dalis and Jan get UAI. Still, I don't think him as such a great fighter. Haer' Dalis or Valygar could overpower him from the very start and they're much more flexible in the ways you use them.

He is great against spellcasters, but in the way he fights, it's so limited. Like, I don't think I could even trust him to dual wield. If you must let him do that, I suggest flails for Defender of Easthaver and warhammers for Runehammer later on. The resistances and immunities are always much appreciated.

[fable]

Haer'dalis I've always thought of as a 1...well, 2-trick pony. Can't say I've ever much used either, and bards seem to me (along with druids) woefully underpowered in the BG series. As for Valygar, I just never used him. Has to do with his lack of dialog. My understanding was that Val was intended for another female romance, with corresponding dialog fattening, but that got cut in the rush to game time. But you're right, he might be worth investigating. So might Haer'dalis, for that matter, if I really knew how to make something of his offensive and defensive moves. But it's been my experience that I don't want a party member whose value counts upon standing still.

[Crenshinibon]

Underpowered? Bards? Hardly! Even in the original BG they were amazingly strong! As Haer' Dalis is a blade, he has access to his spin abilities. The offensive one is basically a three round haste (a bit more) and Kai in one. Also, despite what the description says, it stacks with Improved Haste. Defensive spin decreases your AC by a great amount and you can make yourself mobile by getting yourself under the effects of freedom of movement.

Also, they have a great assortment of spells, even if it does end at level six and they can have two Tensor's up, or even with one, they would have around 300 HP, assuming you gave them 16 CON. They are very powerful, more so than fighters.

[VonDondu]

Since the main weapon I give to Keldorn is Carsomyr, I make sure he has two proficiency points in Two Handed Sword and two proficiency points in Two Handed Weapon Style. I think he already has proficiency points in Long Sword and Crossbow, but I rarely give him such weapons. Occasionally, I might let him use Daystar just so he can cast Sunray before switching back to a two handed sword.

Late in the game, he can dual-wield Purifier and Foebane if you give him proficiency points in Bastard Sword and Two Weapon Style. The Eye of Tyr (available in Sendai's enclave late in the game) can be used to upgrade either Carsomyr or Purifier (you can only use it once), so you have to make a choice.

[Saros]

Keldorn is a huge step back from Haer'Dalis in a party. Haer'dalis, all by himself, can turn into an invulnerable, 85% magic resistant and spell protected tank in ToB, with Carsomyr +6 and 5 attacks. But if you insist on keeping Keldorn, then I'd say, yes, he has to have ++ in two-handed swords and two-handed weapon style, but also 3 stars in dual-wield and some points in long and bastard swords, because he will be most often than not wield Foebane+Purifier in ToB...yet I consider him to be weaker than Korgan and Haer'dalis. Way weaker. Korgan has immunities to many bad effects, while Haer'dalis has magical buffs, most importantly Stoneskin and PfMW.

The choice for the Eye of Tyr is always one IMHO - it HAS to go to Carsomyr. There are only three +6 weapons in the game, and Carsomyr is of course the best of them.

I've run a solo Blade, and after getting the first HLA(UAI), she was always with 9 attacks per round plus valuable spell immunities and protections. The dual-wielding weapon choices has to include the Scarlet Ninja-to or at least Belm in off-hand. I used CF main-handed because of the strength bonus. That's 3 attacks per round. With gauntlets of extraordinary specialization - 3.5. Improved Haste on top = 7. Offensive spin on top of that = 9.

[Thrifalas]

Four. Carsomyr, Ravager, Ram and Ixil. And what happened to Carsomyr setting MR to 50, not raising it? I suppose if you're playing with mods, but then you could get the Item Upgrade mod and get water's edge instead. ;P

Besides, Ravager is way better than that overrated goody-two-shoe-weapon.

Bards can buff themself pretty nicely although they're not close to fighter/mages in this department. Keldorn is not a huge step back from Haer at all, and if you havn't learnt it yet, *nothing* is invulnerable. Well, abusing Spell Immunity will make you immune to anything the computer can come up with, but that spell should be removed anyway.

Now, as for the real topic, why would you want to "Train" Keldorn in any way other than the classical Paladin we all know, wielding Carsomyr with True Sight and just being an all-rounded good fighter with dispelling abilities? ^^

[Saros]

Four. Carsomyr, Ravager, Ram and Ixil. And what happened to Carsomyr setting MR to 50, not raising it? I suppose if you're playing with mods, but then you could get the Item Upgrade mod and get water's edge instead. ;P

Oh, there are still players who'll waste the Roranarch's horn on a stupid staff? And don't tell me that it's the best backstabbing weapon in the vanilla game. That's no reason.

Carsomyr sets MR to 50%, but if you re-equip all of your other MR items after equipping it, their bonuses apply nonetheless.

Besides, Ravager is way better than that overrated goody-two-shoe-weapon.

If you reload to rely on the vorpal effect, yes. Otherwise - no.

Bards can buff themself pretty nicely although they're not close to fighter/mages in this department. Keldorn is not a huge step back from Haer at all, and if you havn't learnt it yet, *nothing* is invulnerable. Well, abusing Spell Immunity will make you immune to anything the computer can come up with, but that spell should be removed anyway.

Unfortunately, in the vanilla game there are no fighter/mages, except maybe the protagonist. Spell Immunity is a nice spell, yet a little overpowered. But don't forget its short duration and that it doesn't stop Breach and Pierce Shield/Spellstrike/Pierce Magic.

Haer'dalis has a lot of useful elemental and physical immunities. Keldorn will get his hardinesses and will be occasionally 40% physical resistant(60% with defender of Easthaven). While Haer'dalis will simply don Jan's armor and have the same resistance(40% physical) permanently.

While if equally buffed, Haer'dalis will have fewer attacks than Keldorn, don't forget that the poor Inquisitor cannot protect his buffs and the first Dispel/Remove magic will strip him naked. While Haer'dalis will run SI: A, SI: D and Spell Shield, with more spell shields ready if something happens. On top of this, he can activate Offensive spin, this giving him additional 2 APR if activated on top of Improved Haste. Not to mention the fact, that in a tough situation Haer can simply grab the Soul Reaver and attack his enemy until the enemy's THAC0 is 20. Keldorn cannot do the same. Besides, the bard can set HLA traps. Keldorn can what? Summon a Deva? Oh goodie...

[Crenshinibon]

I think this discussion is veering from the original question.

Also, I think Ronach's Horn IS worth wasting for the Staff of the Ram as you only meet so many blunt weapon users after that point. Also, if you're a vanilla thief, it IS a good weapon to get.

Also, if you're looking at an NPC powerhouse, I say go for Jan or Aerie. They're THE best in melee hands down and yes, they are invulnerable. Haer' Dalis on the other hand isn't and relies on great AC.

[fable]

Actually, my question is how to train Keldorn. I'd still like to hear direct advice on that. Because it seems to me that, as I've chosen to have Keldorn in my party, there are ways to strategize his proficiencies and use of items.

[Nightmare]

Keldorn is indispensable to my party whenever I play...quick-cast Dispel Magic and True Sight really help free up spell slots from your casters.

Keldorn needs several items to become powerful, as he is relatively weak to start out. Give him a girdle of strength (usually of Hill Giant, since that's the one you can buy from Ribald), the Gloves of Dexterity (huge boost to his AC), wicked armour, and Carsomyr. With these four items, he's a killing machine (all objections based on Paladin code aside). While much could be said to be true of other NPCs given the same items, Keldorn is the only NPC that can use Carsomyr until HLAs become available.

I would suggest staying the course and having him wield Carsomyr for the whole game. The 50% magic resistance means allows you to give other items, like the Cloak of Reflection/Deflection or the Belt of Inertial Barrier, to other party members. The Dispel on each hit that Carsomyr gives is also excellent...I once killed Abazigal's son (don't remember his name) in one round because I got incredibly lucky with a hit by Carsomyr.

For profiencies, since you'll be using Carsomyr, its more of a preference thing. Long swords and Bastard swords are good...as Von said earlier, giving him Daystar in an extra weapon slot lets you cast Sunray.