Quickie - Dualclassing and Levels

chaosjinni · Post by **chaosjinni** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:29 am

I used search to try and find the answer but there were way too many threads.

Q. After dual-classing, are the two classes added together to determine total level?

Example: I dual a Kensai at level 9 to thief. Can I get level 40 with thief, or will I only get to level 31?

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:39 am

Only to level 31. They are added up to determine the total level.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:11 am

That is incorrect.

The total experience cap for Throne of Bhaal is eight million. So, to figure out what level your second class you'd be you would subtract the experience of your first class from the maximum experience of the second class and then check the level charts. As I recently made a fighter/thief dual class character, I can tell you that no matter how many levels of an alternate class you take, you will ALWAYS lose a level of thief because to reach level 40 they need the full eight million.

The most you can get without losing another level is fourteen levels of fighter.

So to see how much you would get you'd do 8000000 - 1400000 and look up the resultant on a a chart. So in this case a level 14 fighter (or anything lower than that) will make the thief level 39.

The experience total for BOTH classes CANNOT exceed eight million.

chaosjinni · Post by **chaosjinni** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:08 pm

Hm, so is there any benefit in that extra level of thief besides a few HPs?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:18 pm

The only point in going above 12th level fighter IMO, is if you want to get some fighters HLAs, and I don't think it's worthwhile personally. Much better to have a Fighter/Thief multi than dual, but that's just my POV.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:10 pm

Well the multiclass is more combat oriented. The 14fighter/39 thief combination is meant to be as close to the vanilla thief as possible, retaining most of the thieving points while still being able to fight. Besides, I believe that any dual class combination can beat the matching multiclass combination.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:56 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:Well the multiclass is more combat oriented. The 14fighter/39 thief combination is meant to be as close to the vanilla thief as possible, retaining most of the thieving points while still being able to fight. Besides, I believe that any dual class combination can beat the matching multiclass combination.

I disagree. Choosing from 2 (or 3) HLA pools makes multiclassed characters better. Plus, you never have a "down time" when your character really isn't very useful as you do with dual classed characters. Multiclassers also have better saving throws, and you're not restricted to being a Human (which adds to even better combat or saving throw bonuses, depending on the race you choose).

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:18 pm

I don't think any class will actually grant you three pools. Still, when dual classing, your character is powerful enough and if you've prepared correctly, you should have no trouble leveling. In the end though, a dual class character will be more powerful than its multiclass counterpart. The human restriction in my opinion is not much, however the fact that you can't use kits is a pretty big limitation. By the time you reach the high level abilities, you have so many protections and your saving throws are so high, that it won't matter.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:31 pm

I understand that kits really help a lot, but they're not the end-all, be-all of a character. IMHO, the best kit in the game is Berserker, and it's the only one I'll use if I plan on playing a dual-classed character. The other kits are good, but not great.

BTW, there's a Mage "fix" included in a lot of fixpacks. It allows you to pick an extra 6,7,and 8 level spell slot (from the Mage HLA pool). It should have been this way.

It's also not just about what character will be most powerful at the end of the game. You need to consider all the time it takes to get there.

A Gnome, Dwarf, or Halfling with maximum CON will always have better stats than any other character can hope for.

A multiclassed Fighter or Ranger will have a better THAC0 (and yes, this is very important) than any dual classed character, unless you dual after level 20 (or is it 21?).

A multiclassed character is a whole lot more fun as well, IMHO. They last a whole lot longer before suffering from "diminishing returns." After level 20, Fighters pretty much don't change much. The same goes for just about every other character as well, except multiclassed characters. They keep growing. They keep getting better.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:50 pm

I don't really like the Berzerker kit at all. The only reason I'd use one of them is to make certain Imprisonment intensive battles easier and either way, they can be easily ended, given that you have the proper equipment, which isn't hard to get. For a fighting type character I think that Kensai is still the best due to the damage bonus.

Unfortunately that was not implemented within the game and I am against mods.

I say that you can get there before the end of ToB. When soloing I hit the experience cap before even finishing all of the quests OR chapter two for that matter, so there is much more experience to be had.

I don't think time is an issue. Patience is a virtue after all.

Well, if you want great stats then you should start in BG. In my opinion, while stats to give nice bonuses, it depends on what character you have and if you really need them. The class combination is much more important than the statistics a character has.

A multiclassed Fighter or Ranger will have a better THAC0 (and yes, this is very important) than any dual classed character, unless you dual after level 20 (or is it 21?).

Yes, THAC0 is important, however, you only need about -15 to hit everything. Also, I usually to dual class that late, to get as much out of the first class as possible.

Well, in the case of the Kensai mentioned in the other thread, the to hit and damage bonuses actually stay after dual classing. Also, they never really get as powerful as they could. Some of the base classes lose advantages when multiclassed and some kits really do make the difference. That is why you would dual class at around that level, when your first class is no longer efficient you pick the second and then, at a certain point when you are granted your other abilities back, you can combine the strengths of the two classes and nullify the weaknesses.

chaosjinni · Post by **chaosjinni** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:49 pm

Great point and counterpoint, and you're both sticking to your guns.

I'm still enriched by the fact that a game this old still has a loyal and avid following.