Single class clerics mid-combat

[Silvanerian]

I was wondering what people generally use their clerics for in mid-combat.
Assuming all buffing is done pre-battle, what exactly do you use your single classed clerics for in mid-battle?
They aren't very reliable combat wise with only 1 attack per round (assume shield), and many of their spells are either of the buffing type or non-party friendly area of effect.

While I value the buffing/summoning spells and their awesome prowess against undead, I am looking for some ideas as to how better utilise a single class cleric of levels 15+ in a battle against non undead foes.

Cheers and merry Christmas

[Crenshinibon]

Well, I usually have my clerics dualwield as their THAC0 can be raised through Champion's Strength and/or Righteous Magic. That's two attacks per round. If you're a Priest of Lathender you have access to the Boon of Lathender special ability which, among increasing to hit and damage by one, it also increases the number of attacks by the same amount (it stacks too but we'll go without that as it's overpowered). Three attacks per round. Now, as you're not fighting undead you can use one (or two) Rings of Gaxx which lets you use Improved Haste a total of three (six) times per day and along with the Amulet of Cheetah Speed and the Improved Cloak of Protection (the cloak can be equipped prior to battle if need be or worn instead of magical armor). When fully buffed you should be making six attacks per round and if you got ALL the stat bonuses you should have -16 AC (-18 with the second ring) and if you're using a shield (Darksteel Shield +4 from my testing) you should have four attacks per round and have a -22 AC bonus.

Item Choice (spoiler):

Spoiler

While you can use Crom Fayer as a weapon, you don't really need to, if you received the +2 strength bonus in hell and you're using the Girdle of Firegiant Strength as well as your holy symbol you will be at 25 strength. However, should you chose to use it, I suggest you take it to the main hand as it deals lightning damage and instantly destroys trolls and golems, the most notable enemies on the destruction list. Offhand you'd be using the Defender of Easthaven which grants a 20% resistance to all types of physical damage and one point of AC.

My Spell Choices By Level:

1: Armor of Faith (25% physical resistance), Sanctuary (so you can run away, cast it and buff if need be)

2: Draw Upon Holy Might (Great for boosting THAC0 and your AC), Barkskin( if you choose the wear the Cloak of Protection +2 instead of armor), Protection from Fire and Cold

3: Animate Dead, Invisibility Purge (Un)Holy Smite, Dispel Magic, Protection From Fire, it all depends on the situation. For a set choice I'd keep Animate Dead and Dispel.

4: Holy Power early on and then, if then choose depending on the situation. Protection from Lightning comes in handy against certain foes, Defensive Harmony and Protection From Evil 10' Radius are party spells, but you can use them just for yourself as well.

5: Holy Power (even if you DO have 25 strength, maximum damage never hurts), Champion's Strength (a much needed THAC0 boost), Chaotic Commands (handy against mind influencing spells), True Sight (handy against illusions), Magic Resistance (if you're lacking in that department.

6:Blade Barrier* (for up close damage), Heal (just in case things don't go your way), Physical Mirror (this spell works wonders against some enemies, such as the end boss of ToB), Harm (if you can get your THAC0 high enough to hit), Wondrous Recall (if you're all set with spells and can spare more slots, this one's really nice as it can allow for that one more buff period from used spells.

7: Regeneration* (Three damage a second is amazing), Aura of Flame (not for the fire damage but rather for the AC bonus), Globe of Blades* (same as Blade Barrier, higher damage though).

*These spells (Blade Barrier, Globe of Blades and Regeneration) are subject to the effects of Improved Haste, meaning that the Blade Barrier and Globe of Blades do damage twice as fast and that Regeneration restores three points every half a second. All regeneration/degeneration effects are subject to Improved Haste.

Note: Be careful about using Flail of Ages as it gives you Freedom, meaning that you cannot be under the effects of Haste or Improved Haste.

[Silvanerian]

Cheers for the advise.

A little clarification though:

I'm having Viconia in my party, which is the main reason why I ask. As you know she's a true class cleric, so no extra buffs per se via boon of lathander.

Anyways, your advise are mostly concerning melee, which is always nice, however, I prefer to keep her a bit more in the background. If only clerics had a 2 attacks per round missile weapon they could use ie daggers, darts or bows...


Assume a medium size battled with foes which would require a bit of buffing, but not the entire repetoire, would last 5 rounds, then I usually have her cast things like Fire Storm, Bolt of Glory, Holy Smite (must be a bug she has this) and use a sling in between.

I usually devide battles into 3 categories:
1. melee is enough
2. a bit of spell casting to take care of a particular opponent/dispell buffs, rest melee
3. all out use of available arsenal, magic, items etc.

Most battles fall into category 2 in my experience, which is where I was hoping to optimise my cleric (Viconia) a bit, as I don't want her to use her entire spell book on buffs for encounters which don't require it, but at the same time think she could be a bit more useful than just standing back with 10-15 damage per round with a sling...

[Saros]

Some suggestions and notifications.

First of all, if you want to receive the +3 strength bonus in Hell, you must take the Evil path in one of the trials - something that most people don't want to.

Secondly, the Girdle of (Any) Giant strength set your strength at a certain value. Meaning that if your character has 12 strength and wears the Girdle of Fire Giant Str, his Str will be set to 22(any additional +str and -str bonuses will apply on top of that, like the +1 from the Holy Symbol or -1 of the Shield of Balduran). If your character has 21 str and wears the same belt, his str will(again) be set at 22. If your character's natural strength is 23 and you wear the same belt, his str will (again) be set at 22.

A solo Cleric is(IMHO) one of the weakest classes available. Too few attacks, too long casting time of the most valuable spells, lack of Stone(Iron) Skins, low physical and other resistances, and so on. His spells are great if given time to resolve, like Bolt of Glory which bypasses enemy MR, or Globe of Blades, and his protective buffs are also quite nice, but clerical buffs can easily be removed/dispelled/breached. Maybe the best choice here is a Priest of Lathander, because of the additional attacks the Boon grants him(yes, they will be 2 instead of 1 if you activate the Boon on top of Improved haste).

I'd say that a solo Cleric must dual-wield, most of the time FoA+DoE.

You may consider the fact that the silly(otherwise) spell Champion's Strength may be quite useful if activated from a Simulacrum(actually, it's best if activated via Projected Image but this is for Cleric/Mages), because this way you'll get a nice increase of THAC0 without losing your casting ability.

Otherwise, the proper clerical buffing goes like that: Chaotic Commands - Death Ward - ProEvilRadius 10' - ProLightning- Champion's Strength from Simmy(optional buff) - Shield of the Archons - Bark Skin - Armor of faith - Profire - Aid - Holy Power - Righteous Magic(str to 24) - Impr Haste(Cloak of Prot +2, Amulet of Cheetah speed) - Boon of Lathander - DUHM - Chant - Regeneration(although it doesn't really help on Insane) - Defensive harmony. This way, your Cleric is indeed a power of destruction with 6 APR, +60-70 Hit Points, str 25, all attacks doing maximum damage, great THAC0 and damage bonuses. In the middle of combat spellcasting should be restricted only to the most useful and powerful spells like Implosion, Harm, Energy Blades, Summon Deva, Fire Storm, and only when the proper meat shield is on the battlefield(consisting mostly of Skeleton Warriors + Deva).

[Pellinore]

I like to give my clerics the Amulet of Power for immunity and for the spell casting reduction plus I like to give them Mauler's Arm early on and then the Sling of Everard as soon as I can afford it... Aerie is the bomb with the Robe of Vecna and the Amulet! I would like to play a pure class or dual class cleric to get the most out of the class. They aren't really all that weak.... just slow.

[Silvanerian]

Viconia

While your guys' advise on how to optimise a PC cleric is appreciated, I hope you noticed that I was refering to NPC pure clerics, which evidently is Viconia.

Now, most of her good damage spells are area effect, and they are not party friendly (holy smite, fire storm etc). In an evil party this poses somewhat of a hassle, as holy smite also targets Korgan and the PC who are the melee'ers.
Further the party has Edwin, which of course has tons of good spells.

Now, while appreciate bolt of glory being a nice spell, an average of 30 point of damage is low compared to what the other party members can dish out per round..
Viconia only has so many 7th level spells, which limits her offensive capabilities as a spellcaster mid-battle.

I guess this little discussion has proved that single class clerics lack in this department; they are left as healers, summoners, buffers and undead slayers. While those capabilities are appreciated, it does leave the cleric wanting in the mid-combat/offensive department unless you want to go all-in which of course you wouldn't on most occations.

Cheers for the comments guys. If any other have some alternative uses for their clerics, I'm all ears.

[Lark]

If only clerics had a 2 attacks per round missile weapon they could use ie daggers, darts or bows.

Viconia could make use of cast'n attack with energy blades (9 attacks per round). Nice if Edwin managed to wish Greater Deathblow for everyone.


Lark

[Silvanerian]

Cheers for the rather creative use for spellcasters!
However, again this would suggest spending a 7th level spell in a battle where it isn't needed. (With wish, also an arcane level 9 spell)

[Lark]

Well, I was assuming that Edwin would cast Wish a lot anyway to keep the party's spell slots filled, and as a side effect Greater Deathblow could appear now and then. Wishing just for this result before every inconsequential fight would of course be a waste of time and spell slots. I agree, that having to use a 7th level spell slot for unimportant foes is disappointing. Yet, Clerics haven't too many other options.

You could consider using the Wand of the Heavens, too. Unless most divine spells, the Wand has a casting time of 1, so it may be worthwhile, especially for cast'n attack. I don't know however how much the recharge cost would be for an evil group, so it might not be feasible for you.


Best,
Lark