Skills needed for HLA traps ??

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:45 pm

I tried searching for this but after about 15 minutes I'm getting frustrated. It's a simple yes no question: Can thieves use their HLA traps without 100 in the set trap skill ??

Thanks

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:23 pm

they could try to set the traps

but the game will check the "set traps" skill/value to determine if the trap is
successfuly set/ not set / blown up

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:29 pm

Nope, Set Traps skill always checks if the trap has been set successfully, whether a normal or HLA trap. Bards however have the benefit of missing that check, because they don't naturally have the Set traps skill. With the first HLA trap, a Bard is given innate 100% Set Traps skill.

If you have severe troubles with trap setting, use the Mercykiller Ring, or potions of Mind Focusing, Perception and Power.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:45 pm

Thanks for the quick responses

thats all I needed to know. I needed this to plan Jan's development, he levels every 440k (as a thief) and I've been sinking points into his stealth skills to make him a good backstabber. With this info I still have ample time to get his set trap to 100 before he gets his first HLA.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:30 am

I thought HLA's couldn't fail regardless of stat distribution.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:52 am

HLA traps do indeed check set traps skill. I had a thief miss a Time Stop Trap with 95% set traps... talk about bad luck.. ; )

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:14 am

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:Thanks for the quick responses thats all I needed to know. I needed this to plan Jan's development, he levels every 440k (as a thief) and I've been sinking points into his stealth skills to make him a good backstabber. With this info I still have ample time to get his set trap to 100 before he gets his first HLA.

You don't hide in shadows with a thief/mage, you cast Mislead.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:41 am

Jan is not a great backstabber - I would use his missile skills instead.

I have had thieves fail setting HLA traps, so I made sure that Jan had 100% in that.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:37 pm

Jan is the best backstabber in the game, especially if you buff him properly. Quintuple damage is a lot.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:22 am

Yes I know the mislead trick

. That is however a 6th or 7th level spell, I plan to use it in the harder encounters when I have to. To take out a random mage I plan to use hide in shadows, anybody have any thoughts on this ??

He already has over 100 in pick locks and disarm traps, 100 even in detect illusion, 80 in pickpockets, all at level 11 or so. I haven't played for a few days so it's a bit vague at this point. It seems that using his standard equipment he already has more than enough to have over 100 in everything.

The only thing I don't plan to raise is pick pockets because I've already gone on a stealing spree and picked up a few usefl potions and scrolls. Besides how exactly do I use him in melee ?? he has what 1 APR, 2 with improved haste ?? It's my first time taking him through and the team is at about 1000,000 exp. He dosn't seem to shine with anything but melf's, he has yet to develop HLA's, and I haven't gone to pick up Carsomyr yet (Waiting till all fighters get to level 13). Another question following this line of thought why use him in melee anyway ?? I originally planned to develop him as a buffer/debuffer > Mislead backstabber. He doesn't have access to level 6 spells and can't cast mislead yet though

Edit: I'd also like to ask a another question: why is his backstab so weak ?? using a short sword +2 he gets around 20 dmg per backstab and his multiplier is already 4x. doesn't seem that hot to me, from what I can see now. I know that even with UAI he can use only items a plain thief can use for backstabbing purposes, and Staff of Ram is still so far away

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:08 am

Patience is a virtue. Once he can cast sixth (and ninth) level spells, he'll do more damage than any NPC out there.

After he gets Tensor's, have him dualwield, which will give him four (eight) attacks per round, and ten in GWW form.

If you're rich, I suggest buying Short Sword of the Mask +4, for backstabbing. I always find backstab to be VERY powerful, much better than the 3E sneak attack, of course it depends on how much damage you deal with your primary attack. What's Jan's strength? I'm pretty sure that affects the damage dealing potential as well. What were you testing it on? The +4 version of the staff is obtainable in SoA (with ToB installed) and it's not too bad.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:24 am

Jan is 9 STR, I think.

I had him using Dagger of the Star +5 (i.e. upgraded) as his melee weapon.

the thing that bothers me with hyper-buffs on fundamentally weak characters is that if they get hit with a de-buff or time runs out on them inconveniently, they are toast.

Jan appears to get wasted in every big melee - even more often than Aerie as her clerical spells (inc Sanctuary) save her - I now have Jan with UAI and with 4 spike traps available, so I keep him in the party, but it is taking a LONG time for him to get the more powerful spells like chain contingency which would make some difference.

tensers takes away his use as a caster and true sight takes away his ability to backstab - I'd rather have a buffed cleric compared to that.

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:38 am

for this purpose i always got an contingency with otilukes resilitens sphere at 10%hp, this usually saves your char

but for the backstabbing, afaik just the first attack counts anyway so it does not really matter how often he is able to attack each round,

go there do your backstab -> his/invis/mislead whatever -> backstab again and so on

until you got your GWW form you might want to use a grindle to boost your strength, or use 2nd grade "strength" which will boost your strength to 18/50

you should also have a Stoneskin cast on you and if you dont want to use otilikes sphere put one in an contingency at 20%hp so you have enough time to withdraw your mage

ps. this is getting out of topic you may want to start a new topic on this "how to play Jan as a thief or so"

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:54 pm

You can even cast strength on Jan twice in a row to get 18/00.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:44 pm

Crenshinibon, are you saying Jan can wield a backstabbing weapon in the mainhand, something like belm offhand, cast mislead > Shapechange > Improved Haste > Tensor's > and backstab 9 out of 10 times per round in werewolf form with a GWW's Thac0 ??

I tested backstab on various enemies and have never seen it go higher than 20. His strenght is still 9. I'll use a strenght booster and report back. I have no trouble keeping him alive his armour with 25% resistance is surprisingly good, he take noticably less damage than anyone else.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:15 pm

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I chose GWW not because of the damage but because of the regeneration. With Improved Haste, he is nearly invincible, regenerating about 16 or so hitpoints per second. If you want damage then go for the Iron Golem form. It has the best damage dealing weapon in the game. A 4d10 + 10 fist.

If you're not, make sure to have him use Spirit Armor.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:05 pm

16 hp per second ?? not per round ?? is that with the shapeshifting rebalancing mod that un-nerf's the GWW form, such that you actually get what you were supposed to get?? Enemy GWW aren't anything to write home about.... Anyways It'll be a long time before he gets that, being a multi class in a 6 person team.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:35 pm

I use no mods. Normally it's eight per second, sixteen with Improved Haste.